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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

ST Fate, Free Will, and the genius of TFA

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by Evetssteve10, Jun 9, 2016.

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  1. Evetssteve10

    Evetssteve10 Jedi Knight star 4

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    Sep 21, 2015
    The mirroring of past events, the coincidences - both things have been complained about to varying degrees by a small segment of "fandom"

    I'm here to discuss how these two things are some of the strongest aspects of TFA and Star Wars in general.

    There are a couple of key moments in the beginning of TFA that are pivotal to the rest of the story and to the actual title of the movie, The Force Awakens. One moment is a mirror to the past, the other something we have never seen before.

    I'm talking about Finn defecting from The First Order and Poe giving the map of Lukes last known locations to BB8. It's no small coincidence that one act Is new and one act is a mirror of a past event. It is setting up one of the biggest themes of TFA: fate and free will. I'm sure you guys can guess which one represents free will and which one fate. It's the colliding of these two moments that sets something into motion, a tide of sorts that Snoke later references when he asks Kylo Ren "There has been an awakening. Have you felt it?"

    This momentum, or tide, that is set into motion is the collision of the next events that unfold in the story, the most important being Rey is set on a path of discovery. Her first steps are not even of her own doing, but of others and once this path has been set into motion it gains more and more momentum along the way, being nudged along by the will of the force. What remains to be seen is will she run away from this or embrace it? And thus her journey has begun.

    We are given several reminders of this dichotomy of free will and fate throughout the movie, the moments that mirror the past and the choices that our characters make are at a constant tug and pull. Kylo Rens pivotal moment is when he faces the same choice his grandfather had many years ago - the will of the force led him to this. It was a moment of truth. And he made the choice that he made. Free will and fate.

    The Galaxy itself for the last years seems to almost be in a stasis, a status quo ever since Snoke came into
    Power and obtained his powerful pupil. This was the moment that put the force into a sort of deep sleep for lack of a better term. And it wasn't until the events at the beginning that set things into motion that things started to change and a ripple in the force was felt.

    The culmination, at least in TFA of all of this are three things. All of which combine fate and free will and mirroring and the will of the force. The first I already mentioned above. Han and Kylo Ren. Their paths collide one more fateful time and both characters make a gut wrenching choice during a moment that mirrors the past.

    The other two is Starkiller and Rey's acceptance. Starkiller seems to be the culmination of the power of fate gone wrong, the continued persistence and dangers of history repeating itself. It's not just the weapon that destroys the republic, but a warning of what can happen if we don't learn from the past and change it.

    Rey's acceptance and finally embracing her place in this world comes in a moment that harkens back to Luke letting the force in at the Death Star and not being afraid of it and letting it flow through him. She was set on this path and in the very beginning it was out of her hands, it was set into motion by others actions (and partially her own for deciding to stay on Jakku this whole time ). But she had to make that choice to embrace her powers for it to have any meaning at all.

    Interestingly enough, she was also presented another choice after defeating Kylo. She was presented the chance to cut him down for good - yet it was almost like the force wasn't ready for that decision to be made - it was too early, and the ground beneath them split in two as if to say "you will have to make this choice one day- but not today ". She has a lot to learn and a lot to think about.

    There's a lot more I could say about this but I'm kind of curious about what others think and what they might have to add to this.

    "We have to go back to go forward". We heard this mentioned many times by JJ and crew. I think what some are writing off as "lazy retreading" actually has a lot of depth and meaning behind it.
     
  2. Obironsolo

    Obironsolo Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 7, 2005
    Nice post.

    The part I found most interesting was the idea that the mirroring of past scenes represents fate, as opposed to free will. I have always thought of the mirror structure as being more of a Joseph Campbell's hero's journey type concept, in which we see life repeating itself over and over, with different characters all going through the same essential trials. Every generation sort of repeating the same mistakes. But I never thought of it in terms of when things mirror and when things don't, and whether or not that signifies anything in and of itself.

    I'll have to re-watch the films now to see if and when this is really in there.
     
    Ricardo Funes likes this.
  3. Evetssteve10

    Evetssteve10 Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 21, 2015
    What I find interesting is that it sort of represents both. And in those moments the dichotomy between the two is really highlighted because fate pushes these characters to certain situations over many many generations and the free will is the choices that are made during these times that truly shape the galaxy for better or worse. And it's as if the force itself sets these moments into play when it's out of balance. I don't think it's a coincidence that these situations that mirror to the past arise suddenly during a time when the galaxy is in a state of stasis and when fate and free will collides that changes the course of things to come it sets off a ripple that's so powerful it's felt by Snoke and Kylo.
     
    Ricardo Funes likes this.
  4. JediChipKelly

    JediChipKelly Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 3, 2016
    I look at 2 instances of fate that affected the galaxy over freewill. Both happen because the villains actions essentially force the protagonist to be the hero.

    In ANH, Luke does not want to follow Obiwan as he says he can take him as far as Anchorhead. But once the Empire torches the home Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru, and Luke sees their skeletons, THEN he wants to become a Jedi. If the Empire essentially left Luke's family alone, they would have never had to deal with him.

    The same goes for Rey in TFA as she runs away from the Lightsaber calling her. If Kylo Ren doesn't capture her and awaken the force in her, then she is back on Jakku.

    I believe SW is always about fate more then freewill (with the exception of Luke in ROTJ throwing down his lightsaber). The Empire & First Order always get too greedy, and too sloppy, and the result is Luke & Rey.
     
    Ricardo Funes likes this.
  5. Dagobah Dragonsnake

    Dagobah Dragonsnake Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 7, 2016
    Everyone in the saga keeps using the word "destiny". However when they invoke that something is someone's destiny (especially Vader), they normally turn out to be wrong. In the end it is not fate. It is the story the writers chose to tell and at times some coincidence or seeming coincidence seems to help weave the story line together. If the coincidence seems too great to explain, we are told it is the Force at work. Therefore when fate or destiny in the guise of coincidence or serendipity occurs and we wonder how this all came together like it did without any seeming active and focused effort, we call it the Force, and the storytellers move on to the next scene.
     
  6. enigmaticjedi

    enigmaticjedi Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Nov 2, 2011
    The Force definitely intervenes at times to impose fate on the galaxy. "There is no such thing as luck." In ROTJ, the Force recreates the exact same tests that Anakin failed in ROTS in multiple ways.

    (1) Just as Palpatine made Anakin choose whether to kill or spare Dooku, he made Luke choose whether to kill or spare Vader.

    (2) Just as Windu blindly believed Anakin would let him kill Palpatine for the Republic even though Anakin had shown signs of attachment to Palpatine before, Palpatine blindly believed Vader would let him kill Luke for the Empire even though Vader had shown signs of attachment to Luke before.

    (3) Just as Anakin had to choose between letting Padme die or betraying Windu, Vader had to choose between letting Luke die or betraying Palpatine.
     
    AshiusX and AllyoftheForce like this.
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