Lit Fate of the Jedi issues...

okay so just read the "confrontation" b/t Han and Daala in the plaza over the cured Jedi

1) how did Han and Leia even get in the Temple? it was under siege and the Mandos killed on sight last time we were here
2) great to see the Council still openly arguing against Hamner, heck, they even have Allana treating him like dirt, of course she's only following the lead of all the adults in the room, but the ridiculous thing is everyone took the time to throw their own barb at him (Han, Allana, Kyp, Kyle, Corran, Mirax, Octa..)
3) they even treat Hamner like crap for wanting to end the crisis w/ a peaceful resolution for both sides, I guess the rest want to just go to war with Daala/Mandos/GA....
4) Han raised a good point when he wondered how this wasn't being seen as illegal by Daala since she was using Mandos as a private army instead of the GA military/police

and now I've read Chapter 6: the Council meeting over getting the Horns back, the new Council member, the slave revolts, and Kenth vs. Masters
1) I know the Horn situation sucks, and it's not right, but why do the Jedi think they can just go bust them out, that's the very thing that they're guilty of already, doing w/e it is they want to do....I mean even if I think someone is imprisoned wrongly, I can't go bust them out, my only option is to go to court, protest, go on tv to talk about it, etc., and I know it's gotta be gut wrenching to the Horns, but parents in this world face it too and they have to abide by the law
2) where did this new Council member come from? I've never heard of her/him, you'd think the next Council member would have to be a high ranking, well known, very accomplished Knight, not some never heard before being
3) funnily enough, I think the Council acts pretty much just like the Council should on this subject, they actually discuss it, figure out all the aspects, and make a decently good decision on how to handle it (barring Saba acting like the world is there for her to attack it, Denning's Barabel Jedi though, that is all the world is there for them), but this is good therefore it's mind boggling that the other right around it is so bad!!
4) geesh, so basically they all want to just disregard Kenth, what a bunch of horrible people the Council is, he's the enemy b/c he wants peaceful resolutions? and apparently it's being spearheaded by Corran who threatens to remove him, and what's with the hand on weapons like it's going to come to a fight, I mean is that what getting upset with other Jedi results in? welcome to the new Sith Order on Coruscant everyone!!!
5) what an absolute joke it is that Saba is hush hush on her Barabel Jedi's actions, and she's uncool that anybody question her, but Kenth's secrecy to protect a promise is a big NO NO to Saba and the other Masters...

 

yeah the jedi council are violent war hungry scum. With the Barabel's being by far the worst. They act like they are better then everyone else and that different rules apply to them (like the keeping of secrets, their general love of fighting, killing and general violence.

Also they get worse, much worse (Kenth is the only decent one of the bunch)

Spoiler

yeah see there is a lot we don't know (I also found Krayt less interesting then most of his Sith.

Agree on Jacen

 

this is a huge problem for me, bc I definitely side with Kenth in all this, and I agree with your statement, and I definitely don't want to read about BAD heroes

and it is strange somewhat to side with Kenth considering I often felt Luke didn't act quick enough in earlier situations, but the situations are very different (fighting evil to save galaxy vs fighting own govt/breaking law bc you don't like it)

 

Yeah

Different situations require different approaches. Kenth and Cilgal are the only ones who seem to get this

 

The Jedi's hostility towards Kenth's ideas and how they eventually end up dealing with him is really a message to be had on how the Jedi can so easily become as bad as their enemies, and how when you focus too much on being Jedi and 'your independence' as a Jedi rather than serving the people, you can become the very thing you're fighting against.

 

I love FotJ. I think it's a great story, and complex plot. It's very ambitious.... but there are times when reading certain of this series, that I want to twist the book up in rage and start smashing it into my face.

Yes, in Allies and Vortex, the Jedi Council act so insane, and so immature, that Kenth comes off as the only reasonable one(until he doesn't). They heap up so much abuse on Kenth that he becomes the scapegoat villain/victim. But Kenth, too, makes insane decisions. He yells at Daala on the phone, and firmly refuses to comply with her. She threatens them, then sends the Mandos to lay seige to the temple. Then the Jedi accuse Kenth of just trying to appease Daala! AND THEN HE SAYS "I have NOT been trying to appease Daala...but I have been trying appease Daala, because we need to appease Daala!

WTH?!?!

Also: Why does Kenth decide he has to keep Admiral Bwuatu's aid a secret from the council. Kenth thinks "The masters will never agree to this." What the hell do you mean, Kenth?! Bwuatu is trying to help the Jedi be able to launch their Stealth X's, and go fight Sith. That's exactly what the masters want!

Sorry. I get so mad. I still love the series overall.

I sympathize with Daala more than any of the masters in the middle books...until she starts acting crazy too.

 

Very true. I like that statement. It's a hard lesson when you become the thing you're trying to fight against. And once you become something you're not (in this case, something bad), some people start going against you.

 

if you're referring to the conversation that leads to her laying siege on the Temple, he refuses bc she DEMANDS that he turn over the crazy Jedi or else at that point, which whether he should or not, the series clearly sets up that is one thing none of the Jedi are willing to do, so the Masters would have agreed with him on that

I didn't understand why Kenth didn't think the Council would agree to it at the time either, but then again, after reading the first bit of Vortex, the others want just to go to war like raging animals so maybe that's why he thought that, and he's proven right, although I do think he should have given them the chance back in Allies

the one thing to me though, yes Kenth does make some dumb choices, but his choices could never be construed as non-Jedi choices (at least up til Chp 8 of Vortex, that's all I've read so far), the rest of the Council definitely make non-Jedi choices constantly

 

I wasn't saying he should have acquiesced, but pointing out that right after this the masters accuse him trying to appease Daala, which he defiantly denies, at first, then admits, then defends his attempted appeasing of Daala. (?!?!)

He did anything but trying to appease Daala. He certainly was earlier in the series, but he just outright refused her demands.

 

okay, on the appeasing Daala convo b/t Kenth and the Masters, feel free to remind me exactly where that line is so I can reread it, but I figure the Masters see what Kenth is doing as appeasing, but Kenth sees it as mediating to prevent violence, which is why it's bungled up like that in that term

and the last sentence, I admit I'm confused, are you saying he tried to appease her earlier in the series? and then he didn't by refusing her demands? are you saying this is wishy washy? also, jw, what do you consider "appeasing Daala"?

 

Sorry. I'll try to find it. I'm saying that Kenth did not try to appease Daala. He straight up stood his ground. The siege happens, then the masters accuse him of trying to appease Daala. He rightly denies the charge. Then immediately after, does not deny the charge, but defends his appeasement of Daala, which he didn't.

Yeah, I would say Kenth was trying to appease Daala in earlier books of the series, like agreeing to the "Jedi observers." He was playing it smart, and looking at the bigger picture, rather than acting on outrage.

So I'll try to find the passage on my ebook.

 

it's fine, I'm just trying to get an understanding of your view on WHAT should have happened...

take this quote, this indicates you think this was an insane decision by Kenth, but what did he do wrong here? do you think he should have given her the Jedi so she wouldn't siege the Temple?

also, on his earlier actions maybe they were a form of appeasement, but once again, what do you think Kenth should have done?

I guess what confuses me is you seem to berate the other Masters for treating Kenth the way they do, but you seem to disagree with Kenth's choices on how to handle everything....so once again, how do you think this all should have been handled?

 

@OutsiderJediSam

Found it:
In chapter 12 is the phone call

Spoiler: Kenth and Daala conversation

“Master Hamner,” came a female voice. He sat up quickly in his chair. “Chief of State Daala,” he said.
“I’m sure you’re surprised to hear from me.”
“I confess that I am. Usually, it’s your chief of staff, Wynn Dorvan, I hear from.”
“I decided to go right to the source. I’ve got a lot on my plate, Kenth, and I know you do, too. We can stop this little tug of war dead in its tracks. No more intermediaries, no more press releases or photo opportunities, no more dancing around the issue. You know what I want. And you know why I want it.”
“Yes, Admiral,” he said, keeping things formal, “I know who you want, and all the reasons you’ve given me for wanting him. Sothais Saar is a Chev, and therefore has been property for most of his life. Do him the courtesy of referring to him as a person, not a thing, please. Whether or
not he’s mentally ill.”
“Come off it, Hamner,” she said. “Don’t play the semantics game. You know what I meant. I want Saar, and I want Altamik.”
“You’re not going to get them. No one trusts you anymore, Daala. Do you not understand that? Make a show of good faith. Earn our trust again. If this ‘little tug of war’ is bothering you so much, then you have the ability to end it.”
There was a pause. “So do you. Right now. Before things get so bad you’d give a great deal to be having this conversation again.” There was something in her voice that chilled him.
“I do not respond well to threats, Admiral. Nor did the Solos. Nor will the other Jedi. I must ask you to prove your innocence and trustworthiness,
otherwise we have nothing to discuss.”
“That’s terribly unfortunate. You say you represent the Jedi—I hope you represent the families of the Jedi as well when you say that. Goodbye, Master Hamner.”

He opened his mouth to speak, but she had gone. Nor would she respond when he had Kani attempt to raise her. Not even Wynn Dorvan would speak with him. The best Hamner could do was talk to a flustered-sounding female who said, “I’m awfully sorry, sir, but the Chief of State has left me explicit orders that neither she nor Wynn Dorvan are to be interrupted.

Spoiler: Kenth relates this with the masters

“A little while ago, I was contacted by the Chief of State,” he said without preamble. “Based upon our conversations, I suggest we brace ourselves for another attack. Most likely, again from the Mandalorians.”
Jaina felt all eyes turn on her, including Hamner’s, which she took as permission to speak. “Then we should be fine, judging by how we handled them last time,” she said bluntly. “We didn’t lose a single Jedi, but they lost quite a few against us. Let’s face it, the biggest consequence of that whole incident was forcing us to delay the launch. The StealthX’s are still trapped here, but I can’t think of anything worse the Mandos could do that they haven’t already done.”
“There was something new this time,” Hamner said, and something in the tone of his voice made the hair on the back of Jaina’s neck stand on end. “Right before she ended the conversation—and, I might add, neither she nor Wynn Dorvan has responded to my repeated efforts to contact her—she said that I had a chance to end this little game we were playing with each other. Before things, and I quote, ‘get so bad I’d give a great deal to be having this conversation again.’”
“That’s a nicely ominous but completely vague threat,” Kyle Katarn said. “Did she honestly think such a thing would make you surrender Saar and Altamik?”
“I can’t be sure. I told her I spoke for the Masters, and we are deeply mistrustful of her right now. That she would have to prove herself to us before any negotiations would resume. Her response was that she hoped I spoke for the families of the Jedi as well.”
If someone had tossed a thermal detonator into the room, it could not have gotten a stronger reaction than those few words. Saba Sebatyne lashed out with her tail so hard she cracked one of the chairs.
“She goes too far! Threatening our families!” cried Saba.
“What kind of threat? Wait, quiet, what kind of threat?” Katarn, calm as usual, trying to get more information and less emotion.
“This is complete and utter bantha poodoo!” Jaina was furious and wanted badly to follow Saba’s example and break something. Nearly everyone else was shouting, even some of the quieter Masters such as Octa Ramis and Katarn. Strangely enough, Jaina noticed that Corran Horn stayed silent, though a vein throbbed at his temple. Jaina immediately felt a hot surge of shame. His family had already been taken by Daala, and they were nowhere near getting them back.
Hamner called for silence, finally using the Force to amplify his voice into a bellow that sliced through the uproar.
“Quiet!”
He followed it with an extremely powerful Force suggestion for some which, though everyone assembled could resist, nonetheless had an effect. Calm started to replace the anger in most of those present, though the worry was still there, quivering in the air.
Our families, Jaina thought. Her mind went back to the restaurant, and little Allana’s terrified shrieks. It was all getting very ugly very fast.
“The threat was deliberately vague,” said Hamner. “It could even be empty.” It was clear he didn’t believe his own words. Nor did Jaina, nor, she suspected, did any Jedi in the room. Daala wasn’t known for bluffing. And Jaina’s danger sense was tingling, like unfriendly fingers tickling the back of her neck
“We must launch!” growled Saba. “We should have done so before we were trapped. Now, we must launch before Daala does something to cripple the Order even more.”
“She’s right,” Jaina said. The words escaped her lips without even realizing it.
“Come on, Jaina, think,” Kyp said, too annoyed to curb his tongue. “We’ve had this conversation before. The second we launch, we’ll be heard and shot down like game birds.”
“Not if we’ve got help,” Jaina said. Hamner shot her an angry glance.
“Not again, Jaina. No more Darkmeld, or any other scheme you’ve come up with. We don’t need the bad public response right now. It’s a delicate juncture and I will not have you jeopardizing it.”
“I wasn’t going to—”
“I don’t care!”
Jaina’s mouth slowly closed. For the next few minutes, she listened to the uproar. Everyone was shouting, no one was listening, and no one was going to do anything.
Except Jaina.
Quietly, unobtrusively, she made her way to the door. She waited for a long moment, then slipped out.
There was someone she thought just might help.

Chapter 13 is about Jaina going to Jag for help to somehow launch the Stealth Xs , then dumping him when he says no. During their conversation, they see on the news that Mandos have laid siege to the temple.
Chapter 14 tracks Mahdi Vanndt's holonews story on one of the slave planets.
Chapter 15 is about Han & Leia, Allana talks to Luke on the phone, Han and Leia decide to keep the Jedi Stealth X Strike Force they're trying to send to help Luke a secret from him. They also learn about the siege
Chapter 16 is about Luke and Ben. Luke learns of Vestara's treachery through translating the convo between her and her father, and tells Ben
Chapter 17 is about Luke and his Sith Allies
Chapter 18 & 19 is about Jaina and Lando, and some Sith that just can't resist being treacherous

And finally in chapter 20, we get back to the temple. The Mando Commando(er) tells the Jedi his terms. He wants the barve jedi. The other masters are extremely distressed, and start arguing with Hamner:

Spoiler: Kenth and Corran argue

There was a loud, angry oath from Corran Horn. “Hamner, this will stop! We’re trapped in here with no way out, no way to speak to anyone on the outside, looking at possible harm to civilians, and with a threat to our families hangs over our heads. We’ve got three Jedi who are convinced we’re evil imposters, and are rapidly running out of the means to take proper care of them. If you would stop trying to appease Daala we—”
“Appease her?” Kenth Hamner was a man slow to anger, but Corran’s words bit deep. “I’m not trying to appease anyone, I’m trying to find a solution! All I need to do to end this threat, Horn, is to let Saar and Altamik go. She doesn’t even know about Bann. Two Jedis, on a gurney, and we can all go home—”
He stopped in midsentence. Corran’s eyes were hard and angry. Horn would not get to be with his family, even if he could leave now. He would go home only to his wife, as strained and heartsick and angry as he. His children were not here, in Jedi safekeeping, tended by beings who cared for them. They were stuck in carbonite, hung on a wall, and treated like decorations.
“I’m sorry, Corran,” Hamner said, and he was. “But we’ve come to this point because we’ve continued to refuse Daala, and that’s hardly appeasement. I’m open to any and all suggestions.”

Rereading it, it looks like he's correcting Corran and not endorsing the opposite of what he did with Daala, but stating the facts. And he is right. I originally felt like he was saying "We are in this mess because we haven't been cooperating with her" and thinking "Then why were you so abrasive to her when she called."

After this is when Apprentice Asari is murdered. Hamner is shook up, then Admiral Bwuatu calls him and offers help. Bwuatu tells Kenth that Daala thinks the Jedi were preparing to attack her in a stealth X raid, and wants assurances that they weren't.
Kenth assures him of this absolutely not being the case, but tells the Admiral that he cannot reveal what the real threat is that they're after, then just slips in the conversation that it's a planet load of Sith that they're after. Then keeps Bwuatu's offer of aid secret from the other masters. His reasons are that the Jedi won't want to wait for the Navy's help, even though he's their only hope of launching the x-wings at this point. The temple is totally surrounded. This is an insane(or at least a poor choice) decision, and is what causes the other masters to turn on him when they later find out.

 

Yeah, the NJO Jedi Council aren't exactly acting admirably. Although I'm not sure anyone in the series is acting in an intelligent manner. My memory might be off, but it was annoying how they treated Kenth and how Kenth acted. Negotiating with Daala is important, but he seems so sure that she's trustworthy? Something like that? Which just seems... delusional because, well, its Daala, and even her character history aside, just in this series her animosity towards the Jedi and her brutal methods are also quite clear. But then the books aren't very good at keeping continuity even with each other, so that might be expecting too much from them.

Bwua'tu was probably trustworthy, but well, look at what happened to him.

My memory is quite faded so I can't remember much details, but if my impression is right, it just seemed strange that Kenth had faith that Daala would hold up her side of any agreement, when, well, she hasn't exactly proven herself to be trustworthy, as well as showing herself to be quite petty (Tahiri's trial for instance). I'm not saying the Jedi should have gone full uprising on the GA, but there should be ways of maneuvering around her. The Jedi ignored Borsk sometimes during the NJO when they were busy with other matters (and Abeloth and the Lost Tribe should be taking up a lot of their attention by now, instead of being stuck on Coruscant) yet they keep debating about how to react to Daala. Well, it would have been better if the Jedi had just left Coruscant entirely earlier, but that would be too smart for this series. Sorry if my memory is off, but I think I got the general outline right.

 

Daala has good intentions, and if you take away her actions that result from her fixation with reigning in the Jedi order, she's a very sympathetic character. She had good reasons for the actions she took(vigilante jedi, etc), but she also had opportunities to adjust her plan. When things start going badly for her towards the 6th book, she doubles down on her agenda, begins to make rash decisions, and stops listening to good advice from her advisors.

I don't know that there are any continuity issues with her.

 

Daala is a bitter woman, she suffered defeat after defeat, her real victory was gassing all the warlords. She then spent decades of her life in the maw, and is I think unhappy and dissatisfied. When one studies her character history-one can feel sorry for her. I do to some extent.

 

this is Kenth to Daala….so obviously I don't think he trusts her, he just doesn't have other options as presented by the book
Option 1: try to work out a resolution with the Chief of State of the GA...not a sworn enemy of the galaxy (Sith, Vong, IR, etc)
Option 2: rebel against the GA

Kenth in discussion with the Masters....once again the text says he doesn't trust her, so I take it he just doesn't have other options

definitely agree on he should have taken the option to the Masters even if had to keep the source confidential back in Allies, and then the other Masters could have rejected it (stupidly but in character with how they're acting) or accepted it, but I don't really get why anyone would turn on him over it, I mean, it's a good plan, it's just disappointing he didn't share it with them, and I get them being upset/angry he didn't share it, but it's not worth fighting each other over

per the first 2 points, I don't think he thinks she's trustworthy, just what are the other options as presented in the books? and even if there's a good middle option and both he and the Council wrong, the other Masters' plan is basically Sith like, his plan is a lot closer to Jedi actions so I can't really fault him the same way I do them

see above point

I do agree with this in reality, but the books don't ever explore this so given the 2 options we have, Kenth's is a whole lot better

exactly, the most obvious answer there ever was to this conflict, why didn't they just pack up and move off planet like they've done countless times already

good intentions are overwritten by actions in my book, sorry, so she's not sympathetic at all, and this comes from someone who actually does agree with the concept of Jedi accountability to the GA

6th book? I'm only now to the beginning of the 6th book and I'd say mostly all of what you just said has been true for the entirety of this series, the only part I'll give you is it going badly for her, the GA people didn't seem to care all that much earlier in the series

sorry, how does bitterness over being a evil person that failed at her job (thankfully for the galaxy) create sympathy over her also current evil actions???

 

She wants power and respect and at one time I think genuinely believed in the empire, only to see all that come down to ashes.

If I'm not mistaken she had a husband and child in the maw that she ended up losing(I could be misremembering).

Anyway she is evil but she is bitter incompetent evil(at least most of the time).

 

I definitely believe what you say about her, but I don't get how any of that creates sympathy, plenty of people want power and respect and go about it by being horrible people just like Daala, and the Empire was always evil, you knew what you were signing on to, so I could care less it burned to ashes or one's belief in it, that's just proving what kind of person one is, a bad person

the thing on the husband and child, that is horrible, but it doesn't justify future bad actions, plenty of people go through bad stuff and DON'T end up bad, yet we always like to point to someone's bad past as the reason they go bad themselves....

 

What makes her evil in FotJ?

 

let's see....
1) imprisoning "criminals" in Carbonite
2) imprisoning "criminals" in a secret prison facility
3) hiring a private army that has no scruples and using them for own gain instead of using the GA military/police in a legitimate operation
4) threatening families of the Jedi
5) having said private army attack the Jedi who haven't shown any violent tendencies toward GA barring the crazy Jedi obviously, but that's a small group that fit a certain criteria yet she has the Mandos attack the entire Order on a kill mission
6) sending private army to put down a slave revolt
7) sending Mandos dressed up as Jedi to attack an Admiral of the GA navy (assuming this at this point but who else could it be, and all the previous examples give great credence to it being her)

do I need to go on?

 

No, but some context would have been nice. She sees the Jedi as a threat, and she's not entirely wrong. A Jedi tyrant had just taken over the GA, plunged the galaxy into a terrible war, and comitted all sorts of atrocities. She's trying to prevent that from happening again.

Is putting the crazy Jedi in carbonite evil? How else can they be contained? The jedi won't tell her about Ysalamari, and have no hope of curing them. The barve Jedi can escape from almost any prison, and have already caused havoc and killed people, and are 100% unwilling to cooperate with anyone. Executing them without any attempt at a cure would be evil. BTW, she later offers to not freeze them, and get them medical attention.

You put criminal in quotes, but they are in fact, criminally insane, and highly dangerous. The secret prison was a warehouse, where the 2 carbonite slabs were taken

3. Mandalorians are all hunky dory when they're helping the good guys, but as soon as they're on an opposing side from the jedi(becoming antagonists, like daala), it's evil? Daala is helping the Mandalorians (with work and support), whom the GA had completely abandoned prior to her being elected.

4.Daala had intelligence that the Jedi were prepping a stealth X strike force, and believed she was the target. That's why she laid siege to the temple. It's not like the Jedi even tried to tell her otherwise, ask the GA for help in their planned strike on the Sith, etc. What is she to do? She's trying to prevent another war from breaking out.
5. Jedi do have violent tendencies, and in her mind are reckless cowboys. She lays out all her reasons for attempting to reign in the jedi, and make them a law abiding government agency, in her meeting with Luke Skywalker in book 1.

6. She has intelligence that the Jedi are behind these slave revolts. And even if it's really a group of conspirators, the Jedi have every intention of inflaming more revolts. This is the chaos that Kenth died tried to prevent.

7. Read at your own risk

Spoiler

nope

She also has intelligence that the Jedi are working with the Sith, further solidifying Daala's view that Sith are merely "Jedi who stop taking their meds."

And it's good intelligence because they were working with the Sith.

It's not at all difficult to see the Jedi from her perspective. The New Republic often had the same issues with the Jedi.

 

I should have mentioned:

#7 Admiral Bwuatu, a Bothan, is Daala's lover. Daala has also worked to bring equal rights to all species, men and women, in both the imperial remnant, and the GA.

 

sorry for the lack of context, but trying to keep it from being a novel in response
1) one Jedi is not the whole Order and that's a constant issue in perception in SW universe and sadly in real life sometimes too, but it's stupid to do that, but also
2) ACTIONS matter, so her concern is not really the problem, it's how she handles it and my examples were the actions, do you really think her actions on how she handled it were justifiable? it so, please don't ever be my president/leader

1) I'll give you the fact that the Jedi didn't apparently spell it out about the Ysalmiri, but I've always taken that as common knowledge by this point in SW universe hence why I think the carbonite option is so evil, but really, you're attempting to justify carbon freezing someone? I mean, I get the practicality of it which is your reasoning, but it's not very humane at all, you're turning them into an inanimate object
2) also, I know this series keep telling us that it's hard to contain Jedi, but it really shouldn't be that hard, I mean the Clone Wars easily showed Jedi/Sith being held in special cuffs that they couldn't break out of, or Obi-Wan being held in the force-field thing in TPM, or another containment thing that could have easily been built over the years for the specific purpose of holding Jedi, I mean Force users have existed forever in this universe

no one argues they're insane and dangerous, but the criminal in quotes was merely bc they're not actually evil, and criminally insane people aren't usually treated as bad as criminals anyway just saying, also the slabs in the warehouse was them on a wall so they could be gawked out, and don't try to tell me Daala didn't know that, so just dismissing it like you did it pretty uncool

when they show up to just attack and kill as the personal army of someone, yes they are evil, and I wouldn't call that kind of work "helping the Mandos" grow they're economy

1) you could provide context as well, the Jedi don't tell her simply bc they believe she doesn't think there is a difference in the Jedi and Sith so she wouldn't help them, maybe they should have told her, I'll admit to that, but it doesn't justify all her subsequent actions
2) Jedi violent tendencies mostly are in the name of fighting evil in the galaxy just to say, not much different than military if you're just simply making such an umbrella claim, but I do agree they should abide more with the law day to day
3) and once again, I'm not against what she said in Book 1 as for the Jedi issues, but her subsequent actions overwrite her reasons

I haven't read none of this yet, so thanks for that
Kenth dies? Kenth dies? omg, omg!!! I haven't read that far!!!

not going to read this either

jw, where is this intelligence, maybe it's something I haven't read yet either, and the problem here is simply an ever occurring problem, lack of communication b/t groups, if anybody would explain why they're doing something and people would listen and understand it makes sense a lot of these issues wouldn't even ever be a problem

and once again, it's not about her perspective, it's about how she handles it, there's a difference in seeing how the Jedi are messing up and thinking the way Daala handles it is okay