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Lit Fate of the Jedi issues...

Discussion in 'Literature' started by OutsiderJediSam, May 29, 2018.

  1. OutsiderJediSam

    OutsiderJediSam Jedi Knight star 3

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    Sep 27, 2017
    I'm done with Abyss.....good name for a book, I sorta feel like a certain story fell into an abyss.....

    I've really already covered a whole lot of this book as I went along so just briefly some things

    Coruscant storyline keeps meandering along and I've already said how I feel about most of that....only thing I'll say is Jaina's plan at the end is fun and interesting and I'm glad they actually moved the sick off planet, h/e if more go crazy they're still on planet......I still see problems in some of way it was carried out bc it's a pr nightmare (Jedi using Force openly at detention center before presenting papers, Jedi using Stealth X can be seen as open resistance, of course Daala will deny Mando thing so it'll look like Jedi just got in a public fight)

    Luke and Ben's story is the one that goes off the rails in this book.....the Throne of Balance stuff might be very interesting (not Jacen's intentions stuff but other stuff about it)....I even liked the Mind Walking stuff and seeing Mara, Anakin, and Jacen......the real problem with this story is the end........I'm still utterly confused on how the Lost Tribe and the Skywalkers all ended up on that space station to some degree......was that planet the Tribe went to in order to find ship in the Maw too? were they always sorta in the same place just some trippy stuff was going on (bc some of what Luke saw sounded like that planet)? why didn't Abeloth come with them? is she still on the "planet" bc I thought she said she wanted off of it......just confusing
     
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  2. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Master star 4

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    Aug 8, 2016
    What did you think of Jacen's attitude towards luke and Ben?

    And I have a question what is the relationship between the realm of beyond shadows and the netherworld of the force?
     
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  3. Vialco

    Vialco Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Mar 6, 2007
    The Netherworld is an ocean. Think of Beyond Shadows as a small whirlpool in that vast ocean.
     
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  4. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Master star 4

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    Aug 8, 2016
    That's an interesting analogy-I'd never thought of that before.
     
  5. OutsiderJediSam

    OutsiderJediSam Jedi Knight star 3

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    Sep 27, 2017
    I did think it was interesting to see that he still was smug, sorta sure of what he did, but still didn't want others to follow suit.....I didn't want the total change back to NJO Jacen at this point, that would have been just as weird as TDN/LOTF Jacen showing up after NJO Jacen
     
  6. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Master star 4

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    Aug 8, 2016
    I did find his "damnation" line to be interesting. What is Chaos actually like?
     
  7. OutsiderJediSam

    OutsiderJediSam Jedi Knight star 3

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    Sep 27, 2017
    I do seriously want others' opinions on this though, just thinking more on the Jedi/Jag thing....taking the Jaina part out of the equation

    1) they put him in as the head of the IR
    2) now they are upset at him for not telling them? (and I'd understand if they hated he couldn't tell them, hated the info obviously bc it sucked, but still accepted Jag's responsibility and didn't blame him personally)

    but they treat him like dirt personally, like they think he is supposed to answer to them, like he committed treason against them (when it actually would have been treason against the IR and GA) and to treat him like that is basically playing politics to control the galaxy (if the head of the IR has to answer to them)
     
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  8. AusStig

    AusStig Jedi Master star 4

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    Feb 3, 2010
    Yeah with the media and how they show the GA to have the detention centre and keeping them on the wall

    in a sane universe that would cause a major scandal for the government, I think they should have done more of that rather then, well you'll see.

    I think it is only really Han and Leia who think this was some great crime and they are extremely self important and entitled in this book.

    I hate Daala's assistant, how they are trying to make a 'good gu'y' the man is scum.

    Also how do you feel the visit went badly for the jedi? The GA shoot at reporters
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2018
  9. OutsiderJediSam

    OutsiderJediSam Jedi Knight star 3

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    Sep 27, 2017
    oh there were problems on both sides, that was a total bone head move by the GA, but when Jaina and the Jedi first go in...

    1) Jaina uses the Force to shove the Rodians away from the counter (which could clearly be seen as defiance of the law) when all that's going on is they're not letting her in...she hadn't even presented the paper at that point
    2) Jaina uses the Force to yank the Rodians' guns away even though they have the right to have them there and point them at supposed trespassers I would think (once again this is before she shows the papers) so once again it's another Jedi "above the law" thing when that is sort of the whole problem here and could scare the public on how the Jedi can abuse power
    3) another issue I have is simply my question on whether the papers were real/fake....I'd think they had to be real or else that'd be just another major problem as soon as the judge denied signing them, h/e the judge that supposedly signed them hadn't shown them any favors so far so I was very surprised that she would sign them.....it does indicate they are real later
    4) not to mention the papers are signed for that address which is supposedly a "secret Govt. detention center"......strange.....
    5) I personally love how Jaina got the reporters up the turbolifts, but that also seems very sketchy on the lawfulness of it....she basically invited a bunch of randoms up for free reign of a private location.....imagine if I go to see my friend at a Army base and he's gonna take me to see the Officer's Lounge and then invite I 30 others to just go with me too......
    6) the GA were stupid too though bc once again they did openly threaten Jaina in front of the media
    7) just in passing, what a stupid statement.....it says basically the only reason why Saba doesn't rip off some guy's arm and beat him with it is bc she's smart enough not to get caught on Holocam, not bc that'd be really wrong as a Jedi
    8) I did love how Jaina thought to use the media guy to keep the situation in hand though and not let it be ruined by having him ask the question to keep Mirax out of trouble
    9) I even think Daala did pretty good damage control at the end.....well IDK, she was doing good, but when they have her make obvious insinuating comments to the Jedi publically in front of the media, it's hard to accept her being accepted by the people of the GA as legitimate unless we accept they are stupid...it's like she's "twirling her mustache" while the people are oblivious

    also absolutely agree on Han and Leia, I do believe this is the first book that has actually messed them up, they were the one thing that was still good throughout TDN-FOTJ, but nope, Denning couldn't leave them alone could he???

    yea, they've also pretty much presented Daala's assistant as an evil stooge right up her alley with everything so far....it's a little out of left field for him to be the one to pass along that info
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2018
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  10. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Immortal Mod-King of the EUC, RPF and SWC star 8 Staff Member Manager

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    Nov 15, 2004
    I don’t think Dorvan was remotely stooge-y in Omen...?


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  11. AusStig

    AusStig Jedi Master star 4

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    Feb 3, 2010
    While I can't answer point 1 (i think it was too far), point 2 could be self defence. The papers are real, as far as I am aware. I think we are meant to infer that the judge loved the power and authority of the court and is an idiot. (why else would she not bow before the jedi?)

    Now on the detention centre, don't think of it as a base, think of it as a jail. You can take media into a jail (though it is a bit sketchy). Keep in mind until they arrived the jedi assumed the Horns were being held in a storage facility not on the wall like trophies.

    As too Saba. Look all good jedi in the Denningverse are violent thugs who maim and murder at the drop of a hat, you just have to accept that. if they want to talk things over or look for non violent solutions then they are cowards and todies. Obviously.

    Yeah, i think the books needed a sympathetic media person to balance out him, though I do like that he is going after Daala.

    She did ok, it should make her look bad, as should the court of jedi affairs in honesty. "The jedi should be treated the same as everyone else, so I have set up a special court with a judge I hand picked". This should not go over well.

    I don't know I think them wanting to murder their son was pretty messed up.

    yeah it's such a 180 it baffles me.

    Even if he is not a stooge, he is fully on board with Daala and anti-jedi, now he isn't? apparently
     
  12. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Immortal Mod-King of the EUC, RPF and SWC star 8 Staff Member Manager

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    Nov 15, 2004
    I have zero evidence from Omen in my mind to consider Dorvan a Daala stooge.

    Zero.


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  13. AusStig

    AusStig Jedi Master star 4

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    Feb 3, 2010
    What about him leaking the info to the reporters?

    And him just generally being Daala's anti jedi cheer leader and supporter.

    he was not positioned to be 'good' in any way (unless because he had a cute pet), to now see him going full 'help jedi' is just weird
     
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  14. PCCViking

    PCCViking Force Ghost star 10

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    Jun 12, 2014
    If anything, he tries to control her excesses.
     
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  15. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Immortal Mod-King of the EUC, RPF and SWC star 8 Staff Member Manager

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    Nov 15, 2004
    The fact is, Daala’s not wrong about the Jedi, but the extent to which she takes matters is.

    I literally cannot stress this enough.


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  16. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Master star 4

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    Aug 8, 2016
    In fairness to Daala-she is exiled Luke over his "dereliction of duty" and has tried to bring what she perceives as the unruly and recalcitrant order in line-that continues to defy her and undermine her.

    It's inevitable she would take more drastic measures when the Jedi refuse to play ball.
     
  17. Xammer

    Xammer Jedi Master

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    Jan 31, 2009
    Now that I'm thinking about it, it would have been much more in tone with the general feel of LOTF to have Luke exiled for the specific action of deserting at Kuat than for the more vague notion of "allowing the rise of Caedus".

    You can have a lot of intrigue around it if you combine it with stuff like the Unification Summit. No Lost Tribes, no extradimensional entities, just powerful people who can't agree on what's best for the galaxy. As Leia put it in Betrayal, "both sides are us".
     
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  18. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Master star 4

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    Aug 8, 2016
    But then we can't have clear cut heroes and villains which apparently is what Lucasfilm was going for.

    I would have preferred that Caedus live and FOTJ(or an alternate series in the period) be set during uneasy stalemate after the SCGW. There would have been lots of potential intrigue and moral complexity in that.
     
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  19. OutsiderJediSam

    OutsiderJediSam Jedi Knight star 3

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    Sep 27, 2017
    I actually agree with this sentiment but that doesn't explain her assistant's going along with the "extent to which she takes matters"....the fact he goes along with it proves who he is to me See @AusStig post I quote below

    please provide examples...…See @AusStig post I quote below

    this is what I saw too and why I think it's so odd for him to be the "good guy" now....and why above 2 quotes baffle me....
     
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  20. AusStig

    AusStig Jedi Master star 4

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    Feb 3, 2010
    Have you gotten to backlash yet?
     
  21. OutsiderJediSam

    OutsiderJediSam Jedi Knight star 3

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    Sep 27, 2017
    no sorry, I'm having to wait to get my next batch of books, but I'll be on it in the next couple of days hopefully
     
  22. AusStig

    AusStig Jedi Master star 4

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    Feb 3, 2010
    Ok,

    Say, how do you feel about the olympics?
     
  23. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Immortal Mod-King of the EUC, RPF and SWC star 8 Staff Member Manager

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    Nov 15, 2004
    Shush, AusStig.


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  24. kalzeth

    kalzeth Jedi Knight star 2

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    Aug 26, 2017
    Does anyone know if Amy official art was produced of Basel warv, Natua Wan or Yaqeel?


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  25. AusStig

    AusStig Jedi Master star 4

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    Feb 3, 2010
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