CT Favorite lightsaber duel in the OT?

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by Feelicks, Mar 4, 2013.

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Favorite OT duel?

Darth Vader v.s. Obi-Wan (ANH) 9 vote(s) 5.6%
Luke v.s. Darth Vader (TESB) 85 vote(s) 52.8%
Luke v.s. Darth Vader (ROTJ) 76 vote(s) 47.2%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Feelicks Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 7, 2012
    star 1
    Luke v.s. Vader's duel in ROTJ for me. It also still stands as my favorite in the entire saga. The music fits it so well, and it was just so emotional.
    Thuro likes this.
  2. Chainmail_Jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 26, 2013
    star 2
    for me it's the duel in ESB, because of the emotions associated with it; Luke was confronting his father's murderer, and then, at the end of the duel, we find out that he was actually confronting his father. It was the biggest plot twist in cinematic history.
  3. Teaviex Cue Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 25, 2012
    ROTJ

    CT as whole is not what to go for if good saber duals are your first priority, though.
    Last edited by Teaviex Cue, Mar 4, 2013
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  4. Chainmail_Jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 26, 2013
    star 2
    I beg to differ.


    As someone who has taken Fencing and Kendo classes, and done moderately well in them, I can say that if I was given a saber I could have brutally murdered any one of the combatants in the PT
    Dredalus likes this.
  5. Teaviex Cue Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 25, 2012
    PT is not only phantom menace.
    Not all duals are like that.
  6. Scars Unseen Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2013
    RotJ for me. Watching that duel -particularly Luke's final offensive- makes me wonder what the duels in the PT could have been like if they had merely improved the choreography instead of going all superhuman/wuxia with it. I mean TPM was close, but it was still clearly asian influenced while the OT seemed to be going for more of western swordfighting thing(what with the Jedi being knights and all that).
  7. Scars Unseen Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2013
    True. The rest are much, much worse.
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  8. Teaviex Cue Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 25, 2012
    Also, there ARE extra turns in OT as well.
    Just watch ANH. You can see Obi Wan doing an unnecessary and slow turn.
  9. Chainmail_Jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 26, 2013
    star 2
    That doesn't compare to the garbage in the PT for numerous reasons, "An" unnecessary turn, in one fight. There were maybe a few in the other fights, but I guarantee that number was less than three per fight.

    One or two, maybe even three (if you can pull it off) turns/flashy tricks are often employed in Swordplay to distract your opponent, however utilizing anymore than that is suicide because a smart opponent would see it coming after the first and/or second one. But then you get stuff like this;
    [IMG]
    It is beyond the realm believable fighting. I could have murdered both of them in a lightsaber duel. Easily. And quickly.
    Last edited by Chainmail_Jedi, Mar 4, 2013
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  10. Tom Harris Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    It depends on what you define as a 'good' lightsaber duel.

    The Prequel Trilogy
    It is true that the duels in the Prequel Trilogy are distinctly different from the Original Trilogy. From a technical standpoint, the choreography and sword fighting skills displayed in the duels of Episodes I, II and III are far superior to any seen in the Original Trilogy. Some people prefer these fast-paced, fluid fight sequences to the slower, less visually intense duels seen in Episodes IV, V and VI.

    We do get to see a lot more variation, that's for sure. In the Original Trilogy, every duel was essentially a basic one-on-one swordfight, with the occasional use of the force thrown in for good measure. The duels in the Prequels are a lot more dynamic; we see multiple combatants face off against each other, with differing fighting styles and stances, sometimes even wielding more than one lightsaber simultaneously. Heck, General Grevious fights with four sabers at once! And who could forget seeing Darth Maul ignite his double-bladed lightsaber for the first time? Nearly every time two characters face-off in a duel in the Prequel Trilogy, a new element is introduced, keeping the fights fresh and exciting.

    The duels also occur in much more dynamic locations, which are more than just a stage with a pretty background - the combatants have a much greater level of interaction with their location than in Episodes IV, V and VI; we witness Yoda and Darth Sideous hurl Senate repulsorpods at each other with the force, and of course the duel between Vader and Obi-Wan in Revenge of the Sith is full of interactions with the environment, as the former master and apprentice fight each other whilst escaping the collapsing mining facility, to the point where they are crossing blades whilst swinging on cables above molten-lava!

    The Original Trilogy
    So how can the Original Trilogy's duels possibly compare to that? Well, no matter how fast-paced and intense the battles are in the Prequel Trilogy, there are still those who prefer the fights in Episodes IV, V and VI. As some people have already mentioned, their favourite duel is based on the emotions they felt while watching; while visually less exciting than the Prequel Trilogy, there is arguably a stronger emotional backdrop behind every duel of the Original trilogy.

    Take the duel in A New Hope for example. Yes, it's slow and awkward, but at the same time, it's regarded as one of the most iconic fight scenes in the entire Saga. Not because of the choreography... no, definitely not that. It's because of the emotion the audience feels in seeing what was once a master and apprentice face off against each other, and witnessing Obi-Wan's selfless self-sacrifice allowing the Millennium Falcon to escape. This is made even more significant if the audience witnessed the two fight in Episode III, and seeing them duel again 19 years later. It's easy to picture Anakin still inside that suit, and difficult watching Obi-Wan as a rather frail, old man face off against Vader in a fight he chose not to finish nearly two decades earlier - both a far cry from the young, athletic Jedi they once were.

    The two duels between Luke and Vader in the Original Trilogy are often fan's favourites, for the same reasons as the fight in A New Hope; the emphasis on the emotional dynamics at play. In The Empire Strikes Back, Luke believes he is confronting the person who murdered his father, with only Vader knowing that this is in fact a duel between father and son, culminating in what is often cited as 'one of the best plot twist revelations in movie history' or something to that effect. And in Return of the Jedi, we see Luke experience many mixed feelings; refusing to fight Vader, then his emotional outburst against him when his sister is threatened, and finally defiance to kill his father. At the same time, we see Vader battling with the conflict within himself, and the duel concludes with his self-sacrifice to save his son.

    These duels may not be as fast-paced or visually impressive as the Prequels, but it can be argues that they are more engaging from an emotional perspective. There are exceptions, of course - the duel on Mustafar for example. But even so, the fight is convoluted with fancy set pieces and over-the-top, super-human fight choreography that it's far too easy to become distracted from what could be an emotional scene from start to finish. Compare the execution of this with the duel between Luke and Vader in Episode VI, where you can really see Luke's anger as he attacks Vader, and even with a mask hiding his expressions, you can still feel the conflict raging inside of Vader.

    And while the characters may not physically interact with the environment they fight in as they do in Episodes I, II and III, the locations instead serve a different purpose. Emotions take centre stage in these fights; the location sets the mood of the duel. For example, the dramatic use of lighting in Cloud City's carbon freezing chamber, or the dark shadows cast in the Emperor's throne room on the second Death Star.

    So what makes a 'good' lightsaber duel?
    People have different opinions about what makes a great lightsaber duel, whether it is the visual excitement of the fight-scene itself, or the context behind it. Both trilogies approach lightsaber duels in different ways, and personally, I enjoy the duels in both the Original and Prequel Trilogies, for the different reasons I've explained. It all depends on your point of view.
    Last edited by Tom Harris, Mar 4, 2013
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  11. Tom Harris Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    I have to agree with this - some of the duels in the Prequel Trilogy are just too well choreographed to be believable fights. They're incredibly well rehearsed, to the point where this acts as a disadvantage. At certain points they feel more like a dance routine than a real fight.
    Thuro likes this.
  12. Legolas Skywalker Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 6
  13. Alexrd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    RotJ. It's as good as Duel of the Fates.
  14. Scars Unseen Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2013
    There is no emotion; there is only jazzercise.
    Last edited by Scars Unseen, Mar 4, 2013
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  15. Chainmail_Jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 26, 2013
    star 2
    It is far better than Duel of Fates
  16. Alexrd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    In your opinion (≠ fact).
  17. Jarren_Lee-Saber Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 16, 2008
    star 4
    Not even four posts in and someone is already Prequel bashing.:rolleyes:
    Last edited by Jarren_Lee-Saber, Mar 5, 2013
  18. Jarren_Lee-Saber Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 16, 2008
    star 4
    Ray Park (who played Darth Maul including stunts) is trained in traditional Chinese Northern Shaolin Kung Fu, Kickboxing, Kendo and Wushu. I would love to see you attempt to "brutally murder" him [face_laugh] Its even more hilarious that you would bring that up, seeing that a 12 year old could beat Obi-Wan in ANH with there slow, almost falling asleep, form of fighting. And anyone with even the most basic fighting skills could have beaten Luke later. PT fights are the only ones where any actual skill is demonstrated.

    No, no you couldn't have. So you're saying that incredibly quick movements with the occasional twirl is easier to beat then a couple old guys barely moving? I think not.

    And please, stop calling the finest fights in the Saga 'garbage'. Especially since you just got here!
  19. Scars Unseen Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2013
    I'm fairly certain that he was criticizing the choreography, not the abilities of the actors. As for "just got here," it is also a safe bet that however recently anyone joined this forum, they have not only just watched the movies. I don't see how post count or join date adds or detracts weight from opinions about 8+ year old movies. I do, however, agree that we are getting a bit off topic here, and I apologize for my part in that.
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  20. Chainmail_Jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 26, 2013
    star 2
    Scars Unseen is correct. I could murder Darth Maul, Not Ray Park. And what you call the "finest" fights in the Saga is pure opinion.
    Last edited by Chainmail_Jedi, Mar 5, 2013
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  21. Alexrd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    Says the guy who couldn't handle my opinion. The irony.
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  22. Chainmail_Jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 26, 2013
    star 2
    I can handle your opinion, I just believe it's wrong. Not that I care, honestly. If someone wants to think the fights in the PTs are as awesome as the OT, then they aren't worth arguing with.
    Last edited by Chainmail_Jedi, Mar 5, 2013
  23. Skelter Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2012
    star 1
    I find the duels in the OT boring, but if I had to choose, I would go with ROTJ....The music towards the end is just epic.
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  24. The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 4
    The only Duel in the OT that hold my attention is the Final Duel. That is because of the emotion attached to the scene and the finality of it all. The swordsmanship itself does not compare to the Jedi of old. Also I think the addition of the PT adds a lot of emotion and weight to the duel between Obi-Wan and Vader...it means so much more when you are aware of everything that has occurred between these two.
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  25. I Are The Internets Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 7
    The ESB duel is the best. The lighting really works.