Saga Favorite Pet Peeve of the Star Wars Saga

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by DarthRuss, Jan 29, 2013.

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  1. PiettsHat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2011
    star 4
    I think the issue still comes down to the OT, though, even taking the PT into account. Why? Well...

    Think of it this way, Vader must have at least twenty years' experience more than Luke, even putting aside training time. ROTJ establishes this by noting that Luke and Leia were hidden from their father when they were born. Since Anakin was Obi-Wan's student before that -- before he turned to evil -- that must give him at least the entirety of Luke's lifetime as greater experience. Plus, Vader helped "hunt down and destroy the Jedi knights" so he's been in far more duels/combat than Luke has.

    The training itself, I would argue, isn't the issue.

    For me, I interpret it as this -- Vader in ESB is testing Luke and his raw power. He's not really going full strength and Luke never stood a chance. In desperation, he got in one lucky hit and then Vader cut off his hand to quickly end the duel.

    In ROTJ, though, Vader was conflicted and (more importantly) didn't want to kill Luke due to the residual of Anakin resurfacing. That's really how I think Luke overpowered him -- he was in a rage, such that Vader would have had to kill him to stop him, but Anakin didn't want to.

    Looking at it this way, I don't have any problems with the presentation of the duels in the OT.
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  2. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    Would Yoda really send his pupil into combat against both Vader and the Emperor if he didn't think Luke stood a fighting chance? That doesn't really make much sense to me.

    I think Luke is simply a Wunderkind when it comes to lightsaber combat. Sure he got his ass handed to him in TESB, but that doesn't prove he isn't incredibly gifted. He was capable of blocking the combat drones laserblasts pretty much immediately.

    But yes, ROTJ was a close fight. I wonder if Luke had won if Vader weren't as conflicted as he was.
  3. PiettsHat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2011
    star 4
    Regardless, though, that doesn't make sense even if the training time in the PT was lessened. Vader still has over 20 years of experience on Luke. But I also think that Yoda and Obi-Wan weren't as concerned about Luke dying -- I think that they feared that he would fall. That Vader would try to recruit him to the Dark Side. In that case, his combat training isn't as important as his training in the Force and philosophy.

    I agree that Luke is gifted in combat. Plus with Vader's injuries, they would be more closely matched. My point was simply that regardless of training time, that doesn't negate the huge experience gap -- PT or no PT.
    Last edited by PiettsHat, Feb 19, 2013
  4. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    That seems quite cold-hearted. I think Yoda and Obi-Wan thought he really had a good chance of winning.

    Maybe Jedi and Sith simply reach a limit to their power after some time. That would explain how Luke could take on Vader with his massive experience or how Obi-Wan could kill Maul or how Anakin could deal with Dooku.
  5. PiettsHat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2011
    star 4
    I don't think that they thought Vader would kill him. I think that they likely thought that if Luke should encounter Vader, he would try to turn Luke, but that Luke would be actively trying to rescue his friends rather than fight Vader.

    Maybe. It's possible -- although I can imagine that Obi-Wan was as experienced as Maul and that Anakin simply overpowered Dooku through brute strength too.

    But I guess my point was that, given the huge level of experience Vader has over Luke, the training time doesn't matter that much. Because even if Luke got a crash course in combat, Vader still has 20 years on him at least.
    Last edited by PiettsHat, Feb 19, 2013
  6. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    And what about the emperor? Plus it would be extremely naive to believe Vader would not kill his son. Luke did almost die on DSII because Vader was very close to not rescuing him.
  7. PiettsHat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2011
    star 4
    I think, though, that Yoda and Obi-Wan would consider falling to be worse than death. That and, I think they realized that they couldn't stop Luke and so they hoped that if confronted Vader, he would be able to get away.

    But really, I was just posting to illustrate why I think the length of training is irrelevant given that the experience gap is so huge to begin with.
  8. darthbarracuda Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 4, 2012
    star 2
    Why didn't they order just like 2 or 3 Gunships alongside Anakin, Obi, and the Yoder in AOTC when they confronted Dooku? Jedi fight Dooku while the rest of the clones shoot him down.

    And why didn't Dooku spill the beans about Palps being the big ol' Sith Lord everyone's been wanting to find.

    Or why Force users use a cool Force ability in some instances but not in others...does their "Force Energy" drain?

    Why sometimes Force users can sense something clearly and other times they cannot.

    How the hell did Ewok spears puncture high-quality Imperial armor?

    Why are the clones/stormtroopers armor all white? No camouflage whatsoever (except for like Hoth or Orto Plutonia)

    Why do you need a Death Star when you can just BDZ a planet with Star Destroyers? Or orbital bombard it? A Death Star needs a bunch of protection anyways...

    Why does the Senate seem extremely small considering all the planets, systems, and sectors being represented?

    Why are almost all the species in Star Wars humanoid? Like have a head on top, legs, arms on the sides, hands, fingers, etc. I want to see more species like the Lamproids. Course, it would be hard for audiences to connect with a character that isn't even remotely human...

    And don't even get me started on the tactics, strategy, and overall dynamics of the warfare of Star Wars...(see my other posts)
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  9. Iron_lord Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Ewok spears don't puncture the armor- but the joints between plates. Also they pull helmets off and bash heads in.

    Planetary shields can deflect bombardments- a planet with enough shields for total coverage, needs a Death Star or similar weapon to punch through the shielding.

    The Senators represent all the worlds in each senator's sector- there's just over 1000 such sectors in the Republic.
  10. Han Burgundy Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 28, 2013
    star 3


    Its a small thing, but the way Mace Windu looks back down at Jango's body once he's killed him REALLY BUGS ME. Not just because its against his character to relish a kill by staring at it, but because the way he moves his head just looks so... unnatural. It looks like George reversed the clip in post, and that originally Mace was looking up from Jango's body to stare at Dooku in defiance, which would have been MUCH cooler.

    Also, anytime in the prequels where a scene opens with an establishing wide shot of people in a room, not doing much of anything, and then suddenly start conversation once the camera cuts to a close up/medium shot always irks me. This happens surprisingly often too. We'll see about 3 to 4 seconds of Anakin and palpatine just walking through Palpatines office, not saying anything, but then once John Williams musical cue ends and the camera moves closer, they suddenly pick up an important conversation out of nowhere. Or, for another example, when Ani and Padme are sitting on the couch by the fire in AOTC, just kind of staring around for the duration of the establishing shot. It LOOKS like the actors are just waiting to say their lines. Super corny.
    DowClimber and darthbarracuda like this.
  11. DowClimber Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 26, 2013
    I would argue that in TESB, Yoda didn't sent his pupil into combat against Vader. Luke threw himself into it. Yoda and Obi-Wan were pretty adamant that Luke didn't go fight Vader, but stayed and finish his training. In ROTJ, I think Yoda was more confident in his abilities ("No more training do you require. Already know you that which you need.") Either that or he didn't have any other choice because he was on his deathbed, so he just told Luke that to boost his confidence.

    Some of my pet peeves include:

    The podrace announcers. I find them cringe-worthy.

    The Jedi Rocks sequence.

    How different Jabba looks from IV to VI.

    Anakin's turn to the dark side being too quick (although I love ROTS)
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  12. Legacy Jedi Endordude Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2012
    star 3
    Prequel Haters, nuf said
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  13. DARTHSHAME Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 19, 2003
    star 4
    One of my pet peeves is hearing the battle droids talk. Some of the lines are so ridiculous. It is a silly attempt at humor that is not necessary.

    I agree with the Jabba's appearance in ANH, just cheesy. :(
    sinkie likes this.
  14. darthbarracuda Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 4, 2012
    star 2
    Agree with you on the droids, I do. I do not like it when they make it seem like droids have emotions and a sentience. I mean, if they do, then what's the point of them being droids? That is one of the reasons I hated the "Droid" arc in Season 5 of TCW where they must steal that encryption chip thing. They all were thinking and trying to come up with a plan. Totally unrealistic and dumb. You could have had aliens instead of droids, or maybe just clones, and it would have basically worked out in the end.
    DARTHSHAME likes this.
  15. Iron_lord Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    They seemed to be going to some lengths to make 3PO and Artoo seem that way as early as ANH- with the vitriol from 3PO, yet his grief when R2 is severely damaged.
  16. darthbarracuda Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 4, 2012
    star 2
    But like being able to rationalize and think...I know they did that in ANH on Tatooine but really it's defies to definition of a droid...
  17. Iron_lord Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Personally I like the term "thinking machine" for droids and sapient computers in general.
  18. StarWarsVerses Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 14, 2013
    star 1
    "Well, if droids could think..."
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  19. sinkie Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 27, 2004
    star 1

    It may make sense symbolically, however, it does not necessarily help to maintain a certain tone that an audience might be craving. I personally find it as one of the most painful moments of the saga because it does seem so obvious in what it is trying to say and in the end makes Kenobi look like a dope. Honestly, I'd sacrifice this "lesson" for a Kenobi who was smart enough to figure that out on his own. Or at least find a way for a kid's point of view to point out something that isn't so blatantly obvious when you're investigating something as intense and obviously "intrigue" themed as a missing planet. You've got spies, assassination attempts, cover ups and an erased planet stumps you? It is not as if Kenobi arrived at that point in space in his ship and didn't see it, he goes to an electronic archive and finds it missing...my first impression (and I hope his first impression) would be: Is this another cover up? Did someone erase it? I think that's why some find it stupid, not that a kid's pov was brought into play but that it was brought into play for something we'd all already figured out! For it to work, the bulk of the audience would most likely have had to go, wow, I actually never thought of that either! And as it is, I think only some kids probably reacted that way.
  20. Han Yolo Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 7, 2013
    star 2
    I really disliked R2D2's ability to fly being introduced. It just doesnt seem right.
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  21. Rawne Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 2, 2008
    star 2
    Why haven't the Jedi done the proper research on Naboo?

    How does the Jedi Order have such intimate knowledge of the new organization of the Sith?

    If the Naboo don't have an army, why doesn't the Trade Federation just land outside the city?

    If a planet doesn't exist if it isn't mentioned in the Jedi archives, what happens when new planets or stars are formed? What happens when a planet is destroyed (naturally or not)? Does every mention of it get deleted?

    When Anakin and Padme reunite on Coruscant, why do they immediately start hugging and kissing? The Supreme Chancellor, several members of the Jedi Council, varied senator's, senate guards and a couple of droids are just a few dozen feet behind them. This is not how you keep a relationship secret.

    When Mace Windu has Sidious at his mercy, why does he go for a swing of his lightsaber when for the last five minutes he's had his lightsaber in front of Sidious' face? Dude, just tilt forward!

    How does Lord Vader get taken by surprise by the Millennium Falcon? He's got The Force! Does his special starfighter not have some kind of proximity alarm?

    Why doesn't Yoda just Force ghost to explain stuff to Luke after he dies? Is there some kind of time limit until you can? If so why didn't he just do the same thing Ben did on the Death Star and during the Battle of Yavin?

    Why isn't Luke horribly deformed by Palpatine's Sith lightning?
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  22. The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 4
    As a Jedi, he finds that option impossible. He sees other Jedi as uncorruptable. How and why could a Jedi distort the archives for this particular planet? Did you expect him to assume that his master's master was a Sith Lord who secretly deleted Kamino because of the war he was planning?
  23. The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 4
    Why haven't the Jedi done the proper research on Naboo?
    -like what?

    How does the Jedi Order have such intimate knowledge of the new organization of the Sith?
    -the Jedi have been fighting the Sith since like...ever. I'm sure there's information about them in the archives.

    If the Naboo don't have an army, why doesn't the Trade Federation just land outside the city?
    -Naboo has snub fighters, and enough military personel to stage an armed resistance. Attacking by surprise is the best bet in any situation.

    If a planet doesn't exist if it isn't mentioned in the Jedi archives, what happens when new planets or stars are formed? What happens when a planet is destroyed (naturally or not)? Does every mention of it get deleted?
    -The Jedi have been mapping space for presumably 25, 000 years. If a rumored-to-exist planet does not exist in an otherwise thoroughly mapped reason it's smart to assume it doesn't actually exist.

    When Anakin and Padme reunite on Coruscant, why do they immediately start hugging and kissing? The Supreme Chancellor, several members of the Jedi Council, varied senator's, senate guards and a couple of droids are just a few dozen feet behind them. This is not how you keep a relationship secret.
    -Have you ever been in love? It's hard to keep your hands off your wife when you have been on the frontlines of war for the last few months.

    When Mace Windu has Sidious at his mercy, why does he go for a swing of his lightsaber when for the last five minutes he's had his lightsaber in front of Sidious' face? Dude, just tilt forward!
    -pet peeve of mine also.

    How does Lord Vader get taken by surprise by the Millennium Falcon? He's got The Force! Does his special starfighter not have some kind of proximity alarm?
    -He was too concentrated on Luke. I guess Han Solo has a weak Force signature. His proximity alarm was probably going nuts the whole time anyways from all the Rebel fighters.

    Why doesn't Yoda just Force ghost to explain stuff to Luke after he dies? Is there some kind of time limit until you can? If so why didn't he just do the same thing Ben did on the Death Star and during the Battle of Yavin?
    -He just died...he was probably cooling down for a while.

    Why isn't Luke horribly deformed by Palpatine's Sith lightning?
    -Lightning doesn't deform people. Palpatine's face became deformed because of his use of the dark-side.
  24. sinkie Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 27, 2004
    star 1

    After all the craziness happening around him since his master was killed by a devil-like Sith, knowing there are two, Dooku leaving the order, assassination attempts, poison darts? I'm not sure I would say he'd guess it was Dooku...but I'd guess he'd be smart enough to suspect that foul play, deletion, manipulation could be going on. I'm sure it isn't the first time in the history of the Order something bad happened. So "full and complete trust" in every single Jedi doesn't cut it for me.
    Last edited by sinkie, Mar 7, 2013
  25. Rawne Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 2, 2008
    star 2
    Enough to know what a Gungan looks like?
    ----

    The rest are all irrational nonsense but Obi-Wan's ignorance just floors me. It annoyed me when I first saw it in the cinema at 9, it still annoys me now.
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