Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by DarthRuss, Jan 29, 2013.
FAVORITE pet peeve?
I wouldn't describe it as ignorance, he was a bit slow in coming to a conclusion.
and Gungans apparently didn't have any relations off-world so it's understandable they might not be in the Jedi's dossier.
I have three:
1) Padme does not look like she's prego with twins. One maybe, as she has a small stature. But two? Nah.
2) The way Padme gives birth. As mother who has given birth naturally....two wimpers and out comes Luke??? Two more wimpers and out comes Leia??? Give me a break. Sure, I know GL wasn't going for the full blown "maternity ward" version, but c'mon. Even my husband was like "Really!?"
2) "She has lost the will to live." Again, as a mother, I have a hard time believing that. Yes, it's SW and it's not the same. And yes, her relationship with Anakin was sort of codependent. But. (And I'm not trying to use my experience as the end all) When you carry that baby(ies) for 9+ months, and are givng birth, "losing the will" to live is last on your mind. More like a primal survival instinct. But I guess that sort of instinct is partial to earthling mothers, I suppose.
in case he got frisked by Jabba's guards.
My pet peeves are:
Padme losing the will to live
Hayden replacing Shaw
Vadernow screaming NOOO before he kills the emperor.
Because he rather die for his ideals than turn to the darkside.
And he condemns the rest of the galaxy to suffer under the Empire unless his hunch about his dad being good plays out.
My pet peeve is........
I can't see every movie for the first time again!
.....I don't care how many 'problems' or 'issues' there are they're great films and there's nothing about any of them that really bother me at all!!!
I wouldn't want you on my strike team infiltration is more important the lame shows of force, Luke wen there to rescue Han not toot his own horn, and he was checked for weapons. he wanted to be seen as peaceful and cooperative.
If he turns to the darkside he condems the rest of the galaxy to far worse. The Empire will then have an ultra-powerful heir apparent in Luke to further the darkness.
This is pretty much the rebellion's last shot. If Luke can't kill the Emperor without turning to the dark side, he's not much use to them. He got lucky that Anakin wasn't entirely lost.
I get it, the whole saga is about Anakin's rise and fall and redemption; galactic politics are merely a backdrop, but this is about pet peeves, and it always annoyed me a bit that Luke was being enormously self-centred here. He puts trillions of beings at risk of endless subjugation because he can't trust himself to kill one irredeemably evil man without completely losing himself in the process.
I don't buy that things would have been far worse if Luke had killed one being. Anakin murdered an entire village and still managed to marry a Senator who was devoted to peace, and did not fall until some time and many more murders later. Yoda claimed that one you start down the dark path, it will forever dominate your destiny, but Luke already demonstrated that's nonsense in ESB, and Yoda's dogmatic view of the Force was part of what messed up Anakin in the first place.
Yes dear. That is exactly what my rebuttal is in regard to the romances featured in the Saga. Han and Leia in ROTJ was just as bad. If you can't deal with my opinion . . . too bad. Because I'm not going to change it for you.
Screw millions of people. Do you really expect Luke to kill his father . . . when Daddy Dearest couldn't kill him in ESB?
I always thought that the look down was kind of a respectful salute to Jango but almost an apology to Boba or even Dooku. It's like Mace is saying "Look dude, I don't wanna be killin' yo guys, not when there's a million-and-one spindley ass robots shooting **** up all round this joint, but this mother****er was firin' his damn gun in my face, and I'm all like 'ain't nobody got time for that', so I had to do what I had to do, ya know wat I'm sayin'?" lol I never say it as him looking down at Jango's body (seen as Jango was a meter or 2 in front of him and Mace looks down and to his right).
I get you're being facetious, but I'd like to answer anyway. He didn't have to kill Vader. The Emperor was the one pulling the strings. If Luke had simply taken him out, his dad would have been forced to make a choice: kill Luke or give up fighting. If Luke's hunch was correct, he's fine. If not, he can defend himself. Vader already refused to kill him once.
Luke did try to kill Palpatine at one point, and Vader stopped him. Most people interpret this as Anakin trying to stop his son turning to the dark side, since Luke was lashing out from anger. I'm not sure what Palpatine's plan here was going to be if Vader decided "sure, let him turn". As for Luke, if he just kept his mind on his mission, killing the old guy should have posed little difficulty, at least as far as he knew. Now we've seen RotS Palpatine probably would have levitated around the room and forced Luke to play some kind of platform game first, but in RotJ the Emperor is just an old man offering Luke a free shot. It always bugged me that Luke couldn't figure out a way to take it without turning into a monster. Heck, become a monster if you have to. Trillions of lives are at stake, if he was so worried about becoming evil after killing the Emperor he could have just sat on the guy's chair for ten minutes and waited for the Death Star to explode around him. Problem solved.
Related to that pet peeve, I felt that it kind of sucked that Anakin's introduction to Palpatine's lightning was the death of Mace Windu. Windu was a complete jerk to Anakin from the moment they met and he was trying to assassinate the galaxy's leader at the time, so it doesn't seem like it would have bothered Anakin that much to see him fry. This kind of lessens the emotional connection Anakin would have to seeing the fate befall Luke in RotJ. I guess a lot of us were under the impression that with Lucas' fondness for parallels and motifs we'd see Anakin have a much more personal connection with the lightning, like Palpatine torturing Padme or Obi-Wan while Anakin lets it happen. Seems like the emotional impact of this (at the time) dramatic display of power was seriously diluted when it became little more than a pyrotechnics display in the PT.
1. In ROTJ, I have no doubt Palpatine had a back up plan in case Vader decided not to protect him. He probably would have used the force to freeze Luke, tortured him a bit, and then forcing him to kill his father, putting him into a situation of substantial enough grief that he would relinquish his Jedi morality for the sake of survival, similar to what happened to Anakin after Mace died. Palpatine had no intentions of dying in that scene, even if you accept the EU and he knew he'd just come back in one of his clones.
2. To me, the personal connection with Mace and Anakin has little bearing on the effectiveness of that scenario in ROTS. Regardless of how he feels about the man, Anakin knows that Mace is a member of the Jedi Council, and that allowing him to die would essentially be "game over". That's why, when he gasps out the words "What have I done?", he isn't expressing grief over the death of a friend. He's expressing grief that everything he's lived his life for up to this point is about to go to **** because of a decision he made.
When you think about it, if you were to replace Mace with someone that Anakin actually cared for, I don't think you would have gotten that knee-jerk reaction to slice off his hand. The fact that he knew Mace wasn't at all sympathetic to his own personal problems made it easier for him to make that decision in such a heated moment,
1. I'm sure Palpatine had a plan, I'm just curious what it was. He basically had a split second to put it into action if Vader didn't step up, and if it was as simplistic as using Luke like a puppet, one wonders why he didn't do that in the first place. Or at least use this puppetry power on Vader to stop him hurling him down a shaft. I like the EU explanation, at least it gives Palpatine a reason for not having much regard for his own safety. He clearly couldn't trust Vader by this point, so it was an enormous gamble and if it was so easy for him to get out of the situation by using magic, that makes his demise all the stranger.
2. I get that it made the decision a lot easier for Anakin, but that's my problem - he didn't have any real reason to not cross the line. This makes him coming back over the line in RotJ a little weaker to me. He's not looking at Luke and remembering his personal failure and finding the inner strength to make it right, he's probably not even thinking about Mace Windu at all in that moment. Breaking with the Jedi Council was made remarkably easy for him by Windu and Yoda treating him like dirt for a decade and Windu throwing his own ideals away to murder the Chancellor over ideology. That this moment has no real emotional connection to its echo in RotJ is disappointing.
The talking CIS droids and their nonsensical antics
There are many women who never end up bonding with their infants (or even loving them) when the infant comes out of them. Motherhood doesn't necessarily or automatically confer beneficial or good qualities to a person, at times it can even bring out their worst. We see this with Padme, as the birthing scene averts the motherhood = saint trope that is often common with these kinds of films.
I agree, there's no reason that Padme should have been a great mother desperate to live for her babies, just because she's a mother. It does, however, make her a horrendously weak character to give up on her offspring, and the galaxy, so easily. That always bugged me too, she went from a courageous teenage queen willing to stand up to galactic corruption and ready to die to free her people to an angsty lump who couldn't even bring herself to keep breathing because her abusive, murderous husband turned out to be, shockingly, an abusive murderer. This could have been an interesting character arc, but the middle part is completely missing. In Attack of the Clones she was essentially a McGuffin, in RotS she was completely passive. Didn't help that Lucas removed any scene from these two films where the character got to demonstrate an ounce of agency or motivation for herself.
The statement in bold is the exact reason why I cannot believe that she just up and died when her own newborn babies most depended on her. I don't see the Padme of the last two films just giving up like that, no matter how heartbroken she was about Anakin. She was always about self-sacrifice for the good of others. Even in the beginning of RotS she talks about how she wants to raise the baby, fix up it's room, etc. She is excited about becoming a mother! She even tells Anakin on the veranda in Coruscant that she might have to step down from her position as senator. "This baby is going to change our lives..I doubt the Queen will allow me to serve as senator..." She realizes the responsibility of being a mother and further realizes the value of being there for her children with that statement! And the moment she gives birth to her babies, she just....gives up?? C'mon. It's completely out of character for her. I know that Lucas is not so great at writing female roles, but this is where he really flubbed the dub, IMO. It would have been WAY more believable if he had the medical droid say "There is irreversable damage to her trachea, we must operate quickly if we are to save the babies..", and so much more tragic as well.
What was that medical droid doing anyway? It seemed to be extracting the babies from her birth canal with an ice-cream scoop, after claiming it was doing surgery, while Padme was awake and seemingly pushing.
Seeing real animals on Dagobah in The Empire Strikes Back. It always struck me as being a bit odd having snakes and lizards and whatnot.
Also, Padme's mention of birds in Attack of the Clones...I know there are birds flying around in the background at one or two points on Naboo (I think in AotC, but it may have been in TPM), but I never noticed if they were alien in nature or birds from Earth.
How did R2-D2 get into the X-Wing on Tattooine in RotJ & Degobah in ESB? In ANH we see droids being lifted in and out of X and Y wings, but there's no lifters where Luke takes of from. Do not tell me he uses his ability to fly as this is never mentioned in the original films.
The same applies to Luke's ladder on the side of the X-wing, how does he get it back once he's in the cockpit, as soon as he's in the top comes down.
Luke used the Force?
I'm more concerned about how they fit into the wings of of the Jedi Starfighters
I agree. I never have believed that she just died "from a broken heart". The conversation about Darth Plaguis at the theater between Anakin and Palpatine plus the juxtaposition of Padme's giving birth and then dying with Anakin's coming back to life leads me to think there's an entirely different reason for Padme's death.
I don't think anything Luke did in TESB counts as actually starting down the dark path.
I think you need to watch them again, AOTC in particular.
No, it wasn't. What messed up Anakin was primarily his background combined with Palpatine. Not listening to Yoda was part of Anakin's problem. Hearing "the dark side is OK" would not have helped him.