Discussion Feel of NOW (ST) compared to Then (PT)

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII and Beyond (Archive)' started by yggdrasil311, Jan 30, 2013.

  1. Darth Humberdinck Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jan 31, 2013
    I think the main reason is that they are stylistically so different from the originals. I am not a "hater" but I was disappointed with the prequels, particularly TPM, because there was nothing to make me care about the characters. I felt no chemistry between Anakin and Padme so his fall to the Darkside was less believable to me. I thought the novelization of RotS was much better at convincing me that Anakin would do anything to save her. I think the overall story/plot was good, it just wasn't executed as well as it could have been.
  2. KevinM1 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2012
    star 2
    Because they were horrible films?

    I mean, the only things of consequence that happens in TPM are the Jedi finding Anakin and reluctantly agreeing to train him and Palpatine becoming chancellor, neither of which needed to be seen on screen. The rest is largely useless.

    AotC suffers from a confusing conspiracy. Sidious hires a bounty hunter to kill Padme, but the bounty hunter hires his own bounty hunter to do it? If the Jango connection is too much of a risk, why go to him at all? Then there's the Sifo-Dyas... thing. It would make so much more narrative sense if Sidious was the name given to the Kamino cloners, but instead Lucas creates an actual Jedi named Sifo-Dyas who, for unknown reasons, ordered the creation of a clone army behind everyone's back. And is promptly never mentioned again.

    RotS is the best of the bunch, but even it isn't great. Anakin's turn happens a bit too abruptly and Grievous is yet another unneeded element.

    On top of all that, there's a host of unnecessary things that only serve to muddle the story:

    Jar-Jar Binks
    Midichlorians
    Living Force vs. Unifying Force
    Immaculate conception
    Prophecy
    Slavery
    C-3PO
    Anakin being from Tatooine
    Qui-Gon Jinn
    Just about everything involving Padme (being a princess, her accent/hair/makeup, her body doubles)
    The 'missing' planet
    Sifo-Dyas (annoys me so much I need to mention him twice)
    Grievous (ditto)

    And then there's the bad acting, complete lack of chemistry, and boring political scenes.

    The PT is a long, boring slog that forgets its roots. Lucas piled on a whole bunch of unnecessary, unwanted themes (Jesus vs. the Devil (even though it was Obi-Wan who defeated Maul...), attempting to mirror Luke's journey through details (Anakin being from Tatooine, losing part of an arm) rather than narrative*, corrupt politicians and businessmen) because he felt that adding more stuff was better, when usually the opposite is true. The OT works because the main stories are incredibly simple, and the details tend to serve as world building elements. In the PT, Lucas conflated detail for narrative, and the result was a mess.

    *Luke goes through a pretty standard Hero's Journey. He starts off as a nobody, has some early success, has some critical failures, and at the end succeeds by becoming wiser and content. We see him grow and change, and each iteration of Luke is a logical progression from the previous one.

    Anakin never goes through that. He starts as a prodigy. We then get a fast-forwarded version who's angry and impatient (for reasons implied but never seen), whose only failure is being bested by a Sith Lord who's even better than Obi-Wan. We get another fast-forwarded version who's a bit more able to control his emotions, but only just. There's never really any growth to him. That he's written and portrayed largely as a whiny brat doesn't help matters.

    My hope is that the ST goes back to its roots. It needs to focus on the Hero's Journey. You can add any theme you want on top of that - in the OTs case, it was ultimately about redemption and forgiveness - but that's where the trilogy should start and end. It needs to make us care about the protagonist, and show how that protagonist grows and changes as the story moves on.
  3. Darth_Articulate Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 4
    On a personal level, the feeling is COMPLETELY different. Back in the 90's, I was fresh out of college, on my own, obsessing over every minute detail that was leaked and constantly searching for more articles about the new movies. Now I have a steady job, on my own, obsessing over every minute detail that is leaked and constantly searching for more articles about the new movies.
    LawJedi and BigAl6ft6 like this.
  4. Chosen_Jedi74 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 18, 2005
    star 1
    I couldn't agree more and that's a big difference between now and when TPM was coming out!! To much Negativity these days. Back in the 90's everyone was down for a new SW movie. Now I can't get through more than 2 post without someone bashing the PT. Also I can't believe some post I read people saying if this is in the ST or not in ST, I'm not watching. When did everyone become film experts? I also think there's way more fans these days but it's very divided how fans look at SW these days.
  5. thesevegetables Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 11, 2012
    star 4
    I'm not old enough to have experience the OT in theatres and then been all pumped and excited for the PT, but I would have been.
    Now, for the ST, I just feel a heavy, indifferent sense of passive resignation.
    I'm trying to tell myself that I'm all Zen and can go with the flow, but the truth is that I just don't care anymore.
  6. Obi-Wan21 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2002
    star 4
    I'm as excited as I was when I first heard about the Prequel trilogy. I watched the original films in one burst on a late night in 1995, when I was a wee lad, and when those ended I craved more. I basically grew up with Star Wars, it's as branded on my DNA as the people who conceived me. Star Wars is like a third sperm donor for me. Anyhow, I am flipping out. It's absolutely wild to know that I'll be able to share in new Star Wars with my daughter!
  7. Narutakikun Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2012
    star 4
    You know what this forum really needs? Another debate about the prequels :p
  8. Master Aizakku Rorensu Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 1, 2013
    star 1
    My feeling between now and then are different because, when Episode I came out I was still in my late-20's anti-commercialism phase of life. So something like Star Wars was kind of "meh." I loved it as a kid, but I didn't really care that much about it now (back then). A movie like Fight Club on the other hand was exactly where my head was at during that time. And as I said before, I didn't get excited about Episode I until the morning of opening day.

    Now I'm in a different place. I've long since out grew my anti-commercialism thing. And I just want to be a kid again for a couple hours in a movie theater. I have no expectations, no demands (I don't care if Han, Luke and Leia are in it or if they're recast). And I'm not and have not written the movie in my head or anything. No, I just want to go in and be entertained. I just want to let whatever J.J. Abrams and Michael Arndt come up with wash over me and enjoy it for whatever it is.

    I also want to take part in the fandom and the build-up and all of that. Something that I didn't really do during the prequels. And as a kid growing up with the Original Trilogy it was something that we really couldn't do to that great of an extent anyway, we just had to wait for the movies and that was about it.
  9. Darth Claire Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 21, 2012
    star 4
    I'm a LOT more cautiously optomistic about the sequel trilogy. So far they've done stuff that normally would make me happy *good writer, director, producer* but I'm still not able to trust it. In a way it feels like returning to an bad house. It looks changed and all but you still worry that its still the ruined house that it used to be. Right now I'm currently full of worries *like I worry they'll focus more on pandering to the nostalgic feels of the Original trilogy fans by showing the original cast a lot but at the cost of having us not care for the new cast, or have it once again be stupid kiddie nonsense meant soly to exploit a franchise and sell toys or even worse have fans realize that the Original 3 are no longer the people we once remembered them being* but the choices of Arndt, Kennedy and JJ do inspire confidence. I'm soo confused. I want to be optomistic but its hard when I've already been let down by the prequels :(

    As for the prequels, I wasn't around to enjoy the hype so IDK.
  10. SithLordDarthRichie London CR

    Chapter Rep
    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2003
    star 8
    I feel differently now to when TPM came out. First of all I was much younger then and didn't hear of the release of a new Star Wars movie until it was nearly out. It was easier with the internet to learn more about AOTC & ROTS and be more excited for them. Plus the PT told a story I wanted to know about since I saw the OT.

    I never expected more movies after ROTS, so the announcement that there will be a ST was a shock. I also don't really know what direction this trilogy will go in which makes thinking about it harder. In addition, ROTJ ended it all so well that part of me thinks what exactly is the point of making more movies?
  11. chris hayes Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 13, 2012
    star 4
    mmm the real problem is the title doesn't project star wars.....balance to the force , the chosen one , the rise of the sith or many more would have been a better title , I also remember Attack of the clones reffered to a Attack of the 50 foot woman & here comes the clowns ! .
  12. JaimePrater Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 15, 2002
    star 1
    As much as I enjoyed Abrams version of Trek....Star Wars has a decidedly different feel. It's vintage meets futuristic. He needs to balance out using CGI vs. Practical effects. (I know I know, a ton of practical effects were used in the PT, and it still felt lifeless, go figure.)
  13. EMPEROR_WINDU Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 23, 2002
    star 5
    I wasn't all that into SW before TPM came out, as it was AOTC that really got me into Star Wars fandom. I obsessed over ROTS but I can't say I feel the same as of yet. There's simply nothing really to go on. I plan on being spoiler free as much as possible except that I'll watch the trailers but with ROTS I knew who was going to die, etc. With this episode I don't know what to think.

    I do plan on enjoying it for what it is. I love the PT and the OT and I expect that I'll love the ST as well.
  14. dolphin Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 1999
    star 4
    I starting roaming these boards around 1997. The excitement was at a fever pitch, higher than it is right now (before folks became jaded/disappointed by TPM). It's still early though and how do you measure 'hype'? I think the anticipation and excitement will match what it was before once production begins and we get that first teaser trailer.
  15. Obironsolo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 7, 2005
    star 1
    Actually, that's not the case at all. After ROTJ in 1983, George pretty much said he was done. Of course there was the rumored nine part saga, which goes all the way back to 1979, but by no means was the PT a given, and it was not until 1993 that Variety had a headline about three new SW prequels, along with a new Indy movie, then being written by Jeb Stuart. A few months later on a morning show, Good Morning America, I believe, George first officially announced there would be prequels. I know that as a die-hard fan who was four when ANH opened, those ten years were pretty hopeless re: new episodes. I specifically remember the excitement when Heir to the Empire was released in 1991 as it was the first real new SW material, with the exceptions being some comics, the role-playing game books and Star Tours.

    Of course, if so many SW fans really hated the prequels as much as they claim, then the excitement level should be much less. Why would three dissappointing episodes do anything but hurt their fandom? It certainly makes no sense that anyone would be MORE excited after having their childhoods raped. It completely defies logic to me that anyone who loved the OT but hated the PT would then be more excited this time around.

    I am equally excited for the ST as I was for the PT. But I loved the PT.
  16. Graphic Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 2012
    star 2
    Prequel Trilogie: :D

    Sequel Trilogie: :eek:
  17. Blur Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 11, 1999
    star 4
    Re: the proposed/planned?! ST, back in Spring/Summer 1988, I remember reading a sci-fi magazine (possibly "Starlog"?!) that featured a short interview with GL. One of the questions he was asked was why Luke didn't get the girl in the SW films (since Leia ended up being his sister). Lucas' response was a cryptic, "You haven't seen the last three"...

    Also remember getting into several friendly arguments in the late '80's with people who were convinced there would never be another SW film, period, since typically sequels came out no later than several years after the previous fim in the series - I argued that there would be new SW films at some point (I just wasn't sure when). I guess I won that argument ;)

    Also remember the news in '93 stating that there would be another Indiana Jones film.

    In any case, I guess we're lucky that the first film in the ST is scheduled to come out a scant 10-11 years after the last film in the franchise, since it was 16 years between SW films the last time. And, re: IJ, there were 19 years between films...
    Last edited by Blur, Feb 4, 2013
  18. janstett Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 29, 2004
    star 3
    Back when the PT news started around 97 I guess we couldn't believe there would be new Star Wars, finally, after 15 years.

    Nothing could have been more anticipated -- and a bigger disappointment to many when it finally came out.

    This time around we've all lived through the relative disappointment of the PT and we're hoping the saga can be saved. But nothing can match the buildup before TPM.
  19. janstett Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 29, 2004
    star 3
    I don't think anybody even considered that Lucas could possibly botch the prequels.

    We had the disappointment of the Ewoks in ROTJ as our biggest complaint back then. Some people didn't like the 3rd Indiana Jones film (Last Crusade). So our fears of Lucas screwing up were, in retrospect, small in comparison with what we actually got. Lucas created The Holy Trilogy, how could he possibly screw that up?
  20. KilroyMcFadden Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2012
    star 3
    This is so true. The possibility that GL would screw up a Star Wars movie wasn't even on the radar! In retrospect, we should have more closely considered the movies he was responsible for since Empire, (seriously, check out the Star Wars titles... we should have seen it coming)

    The Adventures of Young Indiana Jones: Oganga, the Giver and Taker of Life (video) (story)

    1999 The Adventures of Young Indiana Jones: The Trenches of Hell (video) (story)

    1999 The Adventures of Young Indiana Jones: Spring Break Adventure (video) (story)

    1997 Star Wars: Ewoks - Tales from the Endor Woods (video) (characters)

    1997 Star Wars: Ewoks - The Haunted Village (video) (characters)

    1997 Star Wars: Droids - Treasure of the Hidden Planet (video) (characters)

    1997 Star Wars: Droids - The Pirates and the Prince (video) (characters)

    1996 Star Wars: Shadows of the Empire (Video Game) (story)

    1994 Radioland Murders (story)

    1992-1993 The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles (TV series)
    – Florence, May 1908 (1993) (story)
    – Vienna, November 1908 (1993) (story)
    – Benares, January 1910 (1993) (story)
    – Peking, March 1910 (1993) (story)
    – Young Indiana Jones and the Phantom Train of Doom (1993) (story)

    1989 Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade (characters / story)

    1988 Willow (story)

    1986 Captain EO (short) (screenplay)

    1986 The Great Heep (TV movie) (characters)

    1985 Ewoks: The Battle for Endor (TV movie) (story)

    1985 Ewoks (TV series)

    1985 Droids (TV series)

    1984 The Ewok Adventure (TV movie) (story)

    1983 Star Wars: Episode VI - Return of the Jedi (screenplay / story)

    1982 Return of the Ewok (video short) (characters)

    I think we were primariliy looking at the SW EU and how cool that sort of was at the time, and thinking Star Wars was that stuff, rather than what GL was doing with SW.
  21. dolphin Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 1999
    star 4
    Don't forget Howard the Duck. ;)
    KilroyMcFadden likes this.
  22. Vthuil Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2013
    star 4
    Frankly, I think Lucas could have made the Citizen Kane of science fiction films and it still wouldn't have met the pre-TPM expectations. Nothing could have. I don't believe that level of hype will ever exist for any movie again.
    LawJedi likes this.
  23. the_sinister_hologram Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 2
    I was 9 years old when TPM came out. I had seen the OT before that. Even if I wasn't paying attention to small details, I liked it as a whole (even the Ewoks, go figure).
    I found out about the PT from a local TV guide, which was shipped with a bonus magazine, entirely dedicated to Episode I. It had set pictures, interviews with the main cast, even a small 'remember' of the OT. I remember seeing a picture of Obi-Wan and Darth Maul fighting on Tatooine. It looked okay, but it felt odd to see a picture of a kid next to the title "Now we'll see Darth Vader without a mask". Anyway, the hype was there. All I knew or cared was that the movie was going to take place before Episode IV, that it will feature a young Obi-Wan and very young Darth Vader. It will have lightsaber fights and ships which looked very similar to TIE-Fighters. That was about it.
    Looking back at those years, I must say that even if things haven't changed, the way I see the OT and TPM is different. Back then I liked Jar Jar, I really did. I found his accent and his gestures very funny. Now, not so much. But I don't *hate* him either.

    After so many years, and despite my opinions on the quality of the prequels, I am excited that there will be a new trilogy so soon. Regardless of the quality, seeing the Star Wars logo appear on the big screen is an unforgettable experience.
    That and also knowing that after the main logo appears and the crawl enters the frame, it will be something I have never seen before. Something new.
    It won't be the same as seeing the previous movies at the cinema.
    This time, I will pay more attention to the details than I did back in '99. And I may not like the movie in the end. But before that happens, before the movie is released and I go to see it in theaters, I will wait for the movie with anticipation. The same excitement that I felt when my parents took me to see TPM.
    Last edited by the_sinister_hologram, Feb 5, 2013
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  24. MiamiJedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 26, 2013
    star 1
    I was there. Back then there was crazy excitement. The excitement now isn't the same. Unfortunately. This seems more like a good business decision than a continuation of the saga. The prequels didn't feel that way (although they were really just a good business decision) That, said, I'm all on board and will be following this forum religiously.
  25. I Are The Internets Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 7
    All of these announcements have breathed new life into a forum that was dying a slow death after '08. Keep em' coming!
    Darth Chiznuk likes this.