ST Feelings Towards TFA/Future Movies?

Since you've clearly read the various treatments and scripts, could you please outline the differences?

 

Lucas said they did NOT want to use his ideas and they "made their own up".

How much clearer does it need to be?

Basically the bad guys are building a big weapon capable of destroying maybe an entire star instead of a planet, and the good guys have to destroy it again.

SSDD

 

Lucas would have made a different movie.
If Spielberg was making it, it would have a story that worked for him.
If McG was making it.... etc.

This is the Abrams/Kasdan/Kennedy version of Episode 7. It would be unfair to expect them to make anything else.

One day, Dark Horse Comics or someone like that will lay their hands on Georges 20 pages and make a graphic novel out of it. But right here, right now, THIS is it.

 

And?

Lucas sold the company. No matter who made the movie, we were never going to get Lucas's episode 7.

 

He didn't really have everything set in stone during the OT either, different writers came in and gave their takes, etc. I'd be surprised if literally nothing of what was in his notes made it to the movie. And even if it does seem like a new EU on screen, we can all try to have fun with it and just appreciate that there's a new Star Wars movie coming out in 51 days.

 

We have conflicting reports.

 

About what?

Straight from the horse's mouth.

It just sucks because you have these story treatments he wrote ready to go.... so all you have to do is write dialogue that people aren't going to think is mediocre and VIOLA... a great Star Wars movie!

From what we've seen so far it just looks like the Death Star on steroids in the next movie....

I could appreciate Abrams mixing things up when he did Star Trek because it was a REBOOT... fresh slate. This is a continuation.... so doing the same thing here irritates me quite a bit more... and with Star Trek Roddenberry died so others had to soldier on(Besides it was said he gave his approval for DS9 before he died)... Lucas is still alive, and hopefully he will be for many more years. It's a shame to treat a brilliant mind like that as not good enough.

 

From Kasdan, JJ, Kinberg and KK.

Besides George wouldn't know how much they did or didn't use.

Yeah... it's not that simple.

 

He's a creative consultant so why wouldn't he?

 

George mentally checked out after the sale.

What seems to have happened is that George had rough outlines. Kennedy scrapped them when Arndt was brought in. Arndt, Lucas, Kennedy and Kasdan (and maybe some others like Kinberg) started generating ideas with Arndt writing a full treatment. George left following the sale and, later, Abrams was hired partly at George's suggestion.

Arndt, for whatever reason, couldn't craft a satisfactory screenplay from those brainstorming sessions. Kasdan and Abrams further developed the story and wrote a new screenplay.

This is called the development process. George's fingerprints will be on it, as will Kasdan's, Arndt's, Abrams', etc. It's not like two teams wrote two different stories in isolation and Kennedy then set fire to the script written by Team George.

 

No, it is well documented that Lucas and Arndt completed a detailed and extensive sequel trilogy treatment on paper before the sale. That comes straight from Iger's mouth and was widely reported. Iger said it more than once. Without a story, they would not have gone into production and announced the movies with the sale. Hopefully people will stop confusing this.

 

Isn't that what I said? Arndt wrote a treatment while George was there. I am not convinced, however, that Arndt's treatment was based on Lucas' outlines, which were apparently ditched at the outset.

 

You said Kennedy scrapped them when Arndt was brought in. There is no indication of this. Lucas says it was Disney who ultimately scrapped his version. They didn't see anything of Lucas' ideas until after the treatment was completed. Iger finally saw Lucas' ideas for 7 once the treatment with Arndt was delivered upon the sale. No decisions were made to scrap Lucas' ideas until after the sale, when KK no longer worked under Lucas. Why would Lucas' ideas be scrapped while he still owned the company? Lucas had story meetings with Arndt for the treatment. The ST went into preproduction before Lucas was even approached to sell to Disney, and was already being planned. The official site says Lucas and Arndt worked together on the treatments in story meetings.

 

What I agree with:

1. ST was in preproduction under Lucas--indeed, many of the concepts from that phase will have survived into the LK/JJ drafts, as well as Shattered Empire, etc.
2. Lucas and Arndt were in story meetings, but Kennedy and Kasdan were present as well

People argue about how Lucas knew his story was rejected. The answer is simple: he was still there at the time. The story meetings between Lucas, Arndt, Kasdan and Kennedy would have naturally resulted in, "Let's look at this from the ground up", and maybe the story generated shifted things enough from his initial concept that he felt they went in a different direction.

 

I love the idea of more films as long as they're good. Disney is a company known however for striving for quality films. They don't like to put just any crap out that'll sell. I think the franchise is in good hands. The chances for a Netflix series and/or live action series is now higher than it ever was before. A Star Wars show on NETLFLIX!! Do you not know how EPIC that will be!! It's not a question of if, but when it might happen. Yes they're going to milk SW, and as a fan of the franchise all I ask is that you give me quality. I'll gladly give you my money as often as you'd like Disney...just give me quality and a damn good story.

 

This is way too long of a post, my guess is three or four people will make it all the way through, but here's how I feel about the future movies. I'm excited as anyone could possibly be for The Force Awakens, probably more than I've ever been for anything else, ever (go ahead, judge me, I don't care). I think everything they've shown looks perfect thus far, and I couldn't be more psyched. I'm also very excited for the rest of the trilogy, and for the Anthology films they've announced (including the all but confirmed Fett film), but I want them to be careful with the path they're treading. A few months ago, I would have said I didn't believe in franchise fatigue. The way I understood it, and the way it always was for me, was: make good movies, and I'll keep caring. And hell, even if they're not good but people still like them (Fast and the Furious, in my opinion), everything will be hunky-dory.

So before I hit this next point, fun fact about me: I'm a huge fan of superhero comics, both Marvel and DC. I've been invested in the Marvel Cinematic Universe ever since it started, going so far as to watch a full season and a half of Agents of SHIELD despite not really enjoying it, sticking with it just because it was canon. Now, in hindsight the MCU's quality has been pretty shaky. They've had some bad films (The Incredible Hulk, Thor: The Dark World) and some merely okay films (Iron Man 2, Thor), but they've also had some good films (Captain America: The First Avenger, Iron Man 3) and some genuinely great ones (Iron Man, Captain America: The Winter Soldier). I also adored Guardians of the Galaxy enough to see it three times during its theatrical run, and although it was good but not great, I had so much fun with The Avengers me and a large group of school friends saw it twice opening day.

But this past summer, I woke up the day Ant-Man came out, and realized I wasn't excited to see it. It's not that I didn't want to see it, it's just that I didn't find myself caring as much as I used to. If you need any indication of how out-of-character that was for me, look at my username: I love Ant-Man, and had been looking forward to the movie ever since Wright announced his intention to make the film nine years ago. Sure, I went through a couple of weeks of bitterness after he left, but I was still excited. But the day of the film? Nothing. And I saw the movie. And I liked it quite a bit, more so than most of the other MCU films. I thought it was fun, and funny, and there were even a couple of clever effects sequences.

And hell, I'm even one of the few weirdos that thought Age of Ultron was better than the first Avengers, so it's not that I thought the movies were getting worse. It's just that there is so much MCU material coming out in theaters, on TV, on Netflix, over such a short period of time that I have difficulty caring until I'm sitting in the theater. It doesn't help that, despite featuring a diverse line-up of characters, the films all feel very formulaic. Thor and Captain America: The First Avenger couldn't feature two more different characters or two more different locations, and they feel like essentially the same film, just that the latter is far more fun and enjoyable than the former. Because of this over reliance on formula, there's no impact any more, and because of the future slate announced up to four or five years in advance, I walk in knowing exactly which characters are safe, which are secondary enough to fake-out "kill" for fifteen minutes, and which are tertiary enough to be genuinely expendable. Even Batman v Superman, which features two of my favorite superheroes and, unlike a lot of people I don't actually think looks bad, I don't feel much excitement for.

And yes, the formula and the predictability are a huge part of my diminished enthusiasm, but so is the sheer amount of content. I'm still excited for the Netflix series, based solely off the strength of Daredevil's first season, but I don't bother with either Agents of SHIELD or Agent Carter, and the only MCU movie I feel any genuine excitement for is Guardians of the Galaxy 2. Again, these are films featuring characters I love, but if you start releasing three films annually, in addition to all the other stuff, and all announced up until 2020, I just... I can't bring myself to feel anything.

And this is what I'm afraid will happen to Star Wars. Now, granted, Lucasfilm seems to be handling this differently. We're only getting one film a year, which is a very good thing, and they're alternating Saga films with Anthology films. You get chapters in a three-part continuing storyline every other year, and you get one-off stories featuring a wide range of genres every other year. That's a great way to shake up their line-up and keep things fresh from one year to the next. I mean, a one-off film? The only one-off film Marvel has is a one-off solely because it wasn't profitable enough to warrant a sequel. While the ST will likely follow the now-standard trilogy formula established by the originals, that's fine and to be expected, and it's also highly doubtful there's any way that Rogue One, Han Solo, and Boba Fett will possibly feature the same formulas. So far, so great. Given we've gotten only six movies over 38 years thus far, another six over only six years sounds like a dream come true, especially considering three of them are the long-awaited Episodes VII-IX, and the other three are ostensibly high-concept EU films.

It's what's going to happen afterwards that worries me; it's the background radiation to my excitement that I try to ignore. I'm adamant that they won't go straight to Episodes X-XII, and I'm doubtful they'll do it at all, because there's no decades-gestating nostalgic demand for it like there was for I-III or there is for VII-IX, and it's just more trouble than it's worth to market a ninth sequel. But what if they do make it? Do they make it right after IX? What if they don't? What do they do then? Do they just do stand-alone films indefinitely, every single year? Even if they're still released every other year, with nothing in between, the novelty of having them in the Saga's off-years is completely gone. So what do they do? A new, unrelated trilogy or saga? Or do they let it rest for a little bit?

I'm confident that Kathleen Kennedy will do her utmost to avoid running this into the ground. She's a smart woman, she seems to genuinely care about Lucas' legacy. I expect she'll have the same control over these movies that Feige has over the Marvel films, but I hope she shows a bit more restraint than he has, because right now it feels like he's dangerously close to playing chicken with audience apathy. I hope she's mindful of putting out too much, too fast, and for too long. And here's the thing; I'm an optimist, sometimes to a positively naive degree, and I like being excited for things. I could not possibly be more pumped for the next six years of Star Wars films; I am fully on board with everything from now until 2020. Unless the movies are consistently bad, nothing will kill that excitement. But, there's a feeling of worry surrounding the unknown of what they decide to do from 2021 onwards. And who knows, maybe I'm worrying about nothing. Maybe this will all work out in the best way possible, with no drawbacks at all, and in ten years we'll talk about how we're still in the continuing NuGolden Age of Star Wars. But the last thing I want is to wake up one morning and realize that because there's so freaking much of it all the time without any reprieve, and not because I choose for there to be, I'm burned out and no longer excited about the future of my favorite thing ever, the thing I've consistently loved and been passionate about and gotten excited for my entire life. Not gonna lie, that would kind of suck.

And yes, I want more movies, and I'm digging Rebels, and I'd love a Netflix series, or even a high quality network TV series. And if they're making all of this stuff, all I ask is that they make it good, and make it as good as they possibly can. And I ask that they know when to stop, when to take a break for a little bit and make us want more, rather than giving us more than we want. But in the meantime, I'm going to try my hardest not to focus on future worst case scenarios. There's a new Star Wars movie coming out, and I'm counting the days until I see it.

 

Do you agree that his story was the treatment written with Arndt before the sale, which was only rejected after he no longer owned Lucasfilm? It was rejected while he was consulting, after the sale, after his story treatment was completed and sold. Yeah, he was there when they rejected it, but only as consultant, not as owner. He left as consultant when it was rejected, not wanting to be involved or even know what they were doing instead.

 

I don't agree that the treatment was written by Arndt and Lucas, and I think the quote in your sig is misleading because your insertion if "with Lucas" seems to overstate the case. Arndt wrote the treatment for the ST based on meetings between himself, Lucas, Kennedy and (most likely) Kasdan, but there is no indication that it was a translation of Lucas' initial outlines.

Look at the meetings between Kasdan, Lucas and Spielberg for Raiders. Despite Lucas creating the initial concept, the three of them (plus Kaufman) hashed out beats, scenes, etc. in the meetings, with Kasdan being tasked with making a coherent story out of these ideas. The same was most likely true for Arndt's role for VII, and for whatever reason he couldn't quite crack it when it came to scripting. So then Abrams' and Kasdan started rebuilding the story sometime around June 2013, at least eight months after the buyout's announcement in 2012.

 

Developing a movie from a final treatment is what they did on Empire Strikes Back. What we have of that treatment is the story of Empire Strikes Back, but with the unfilmed Wampa scenes and a few minor changes. Belated Media's "What is Attack of the Clones Was Good" is more like what they did here. It's not developing the story, or slightly altering it, but redoing it from the ground up, and only using minor elements. It's only complicated if they think they can come up with better stories. People who think Lucas' stories are the problem people had with it are wrong. Plinkett was wrong. Belated Media was wrong. "Dear JJ Abrams" was wrong. I highly doubt JJ Abrams has better story ideas.

 

Do you honestly believe that Arndt was dropped because he was following Lucas' story? Or (more likely) his stab at building the story wasn't really working to the team's satisfaction?

I believe Kasdan when he says there was no usable script in place, and TFA would certainly be a disaster if they went into production using a script that they didn't believe in, just out of some misplaced sense of loyalty.

 

I personally never had an issue with any of George's story. His general outlines and ideas for the originals and the prequels were great. I wasn't too happy about his screen writing and direction. As an ideas guy he's a revolutionary, brilliant, genius. But the doesn't make him a brilliant film maker by default. He's always worked best when he surrounded himself and collaborated with other talented creative people. So I would have been interested in seeing what the writers of TFA could have done, had they stuck to the general architecture that George had written for the ST. However, obviously it has been decided that they wanted to go another way. So I doubt we'll ever get any sense of what that might have been like.

 

The question is, whatever you think of his writing and direction, why would his writing and direction even factor into it if they were using his story? It wouldn't at all. I happen to like his writing and direction, but most people seem to agree that he writes great stories. People could have their "superior" acting, special effects, dialogue, and directing, all with a Story by George Lucas. Now that the story they came up with has leaked, it seems like the only thing that could save it is the execution. The story should be the strongest part, not the weakest. The most perfect execution can't make up for an uninspired story.

 

Great stories can't always be translated into great screenplays or great movies.

 

I will give JJ props if he has managed to fool us all with fake leaks.