Full Series Female or Alien Admirals in TCW?

The crappy part of this is that it basically exists in the saga because of budget reasons in the late '70s. Lucas couldn't afford massive amounts of aliens as enemies *or* heroes, so we got tons of humans. And then in order to be consistent it's kind of stayed that way. GL does call the Empire "space Nazis" so speciesism is consistent with that, but not explicit in the films; Leia is totally as racist toward Chewie as the Imperials are.

The Gungans and Ewoks do stand as GL's sort of "don't underestimate different cultures" statements... Wookiees, too, really, and anti-droid prejudices are touched on in the films...

I guess the SW military is meant to parallel IRL male-dominated military. Seems like GL tried to diversify with the female Naboo pilot in TCW but then clones became the main military so it became a moot point. In TCW so far we've only seen male non-clone military people, which in some cases is because they want to use OT characters (Yularen, Tarkin) and in other cases... dunno. I think GL's ultimate statement on parity lies in the fact that the Jedi are fairly gender-neutral, which remains very cool.

All of this, like it or not, has to be seen through the prism of the knowledge of GL's IRL politics. He creates the GFFA so it is informed by his worldview. He has his daughter in the sandbox now, seemingly tasked with highlighting strong female characters. Whether that bleeds over into the depiction of the GAR remains to be seen, although I personally would like for it to do so.

 

Yeah, I'd love to see that, actually!

 

Well most complain about entire species because they look "foolish" and talk with "foolish accent"
I dunno... just forget it... perhaps my statement just didn't make much sense Still I understand slight Jar Jar-hate since there was far too much him in TPM- in AOTC and ROTS there was right amount of him In Naboo-battle he was annoying because of his character shield.....

It seems to be speciesistic tradition then...where those guards are from anyway?

 

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MenAreTheExpendableGender

People don't want to see the male heroes of movies or tv shows killing or fighting against females, if you had a Star Wars movie with a male Jedi slicing up a female clone trooper with his lightsaber the audience is going to really hate that jedi character because male on female violence is frowned upon.

With the alien stuff you have to remember the Star Wars movies were made about 30 years ago and didn't have an infinite budget, so all the rebels and imperials were just human actors without expensive makeup.If Lucas could have back then I am sure you would have seen alien rebels and alien imperials but it wouldn't have been cost effective.Storywise Darth Maul would have ended up as the Emperor if Palpatine's plan worked out.

The people that wrote the EU didn't really think this stuff through because if you watch the original trilogy you will see that the rebels are all human males just like the Empire, there was a joke in Family Guy about this saying how Mon Mothma and Leia were the only females in the Universe.

 

I wouldn't want to see female clones because females are the physically inferior human gender.

But I have no problem with men killing women in a war and I doubt many people would.

I doubt anyone would have a problem with Ventress being killed by a man.

 

still cantina and Jabba's Palace and Cloud City have aliens there- i think Imperials were supposed to be all humans since in Rotj we can see Mon Calamari, Sullustan, Ishi Tib etc. rebels- and black guys like Lando and Grizz and asian looking guys etc. but all imperials are still "spacenazis" white europeanlooking human males in uniforms- i think it's nice difference if rebels are tolerant but imperials are not... still in ANH and ESB all rebels are humans except Chewie of course- still there is plenty of females actually so that joke about Leia and Mothma is not even funny ...

SW-universe just has 80 percent of humans of all lifeforms- except in TCW where 30 percent is weequays, 30 percent ithorians and rest are either human admirals or background aliens

For some kind of believability i would like to see more alien republicans, some more humans etc. bit mixing up these stereotypical roles instead of human admiral and weequay pirate- i want human pirate and weequay admiral etc. instead of twi'lek dancer and human background woman- human dancer and twi'lek background woman....

HOBS had that awesome thing of human separatists- (most were aliens still supporting the humanocentric Empire was born out of speciesistic hatred)others than Dooku- creates believebility with humanfilled OT-universe



I think GL made this speciesistic reference purposedly- he didn't add any alienimperial or human seppies to movies except Dooku and ok in theory Mas Amedda and sly Moore- whatever happened to them - and even in HOBS these humans were indeed different from these greedy alienspecies neimoidians or muuns.... i dunno of course i don't like speciesism/racism but entire SW-universe is filled with stereotypes while there would be awesome possibility to get rid of them.....

not that much it would prevent female from being a soldier and for example snipers or scouts don't have to be powerful- it just explains why femmetroopers are rare and clones are made out of mainly male templates.....
still admirals can be old and weak- does Kilian look physically superior to clones? Why not females- especially when not all species share human traits some species can have stronger females and weaker males......

 

Now, if that ain't trollin', I dunno what is.

 

Yeah, which is why we don't have women in the army! Oh wait...

Good grief, CT. You just love throwing it out there, don't you.

 

Oh that's just... BAH.....

*must refrain from tirade... must refrain...this isn't the Senate forum...*

 

Hear ya, sistah. In this case the baiting is just TOO transparent. You can just already imagine the inane "who, me?" responses, and even that's irritating... reading then in reality would just be depressing.

 

What the hell?

So you're saying human females are not physically inferior to males?

Yeah, that's why females compete with men in sports....oh wait.

 

Hey don't get yourself banned we need someone at least mildly irritating to make debates more interesting (joke)

human females are -on the average- "weaker" what comes to muscular power- yet it's not the only thing that matters when being a soldier.... fit female can run, shoot and move well enough- things like accuracy or tactics have nothing to do with only muscular power....

Hey which one shoots better Aurra Sing or Greedo? Which one would be better soldier?

-slight difference in physical abilities shouldn't matter in the galaxy that uses b1 battledroids in the army

also wookiees are physically superior to humans so no humans at all to army then?

still i think all clones should be Jango-copies until Empire so I don't wanna see female/alien clones in this but during Empire..... why not?

And female admiral- definitely- damn it in EU Republic already has female admirals in KOTOR for example so i'm quite sure we'll see some.... but i also want to see nonhuman admiral- female or not but GAR-admiralty needs diversity unless republic is speciesistic already in which case i would like to see something like separatist propaganda about that

 

I agree with this to a certain extent, yet at the same time I don't. For example, when we see Anakin and Obi-Wan fighting Ventress, I don't think the audience is feeling bad that Ventress is facing off against two men. When Ventress was fighting Savage in hand to hand combat, I doubt the audience felt bad for her after she basically killed and beat all the men. When Savage later on has her by the neck choking her, I remember me thinking "GOOD!" lol. I love Ventress, but she was very evil to use Savage's brother like that.

Other examples I can think of in TCW where males are fighting females- (Kalifa getting shot by the male trandoshan father, Ashoka dueling against Greivous/Trandos/Cad Bane and Ventress fighting Dooku.

The only time this season I remember feeling bad for female characters having violence done to them against male characters were when Padme was jumped by the two BH's and when Rumi Paramitta was shot and fell to her death.

 

Well, not in combat roles, anyway. Yet.

OTOH, the point about female officers is quite valid. Some of the tactical droids have clearly had a female persona. It would be nice to get a flesh and blood individual as well.

 

I was talking about IRL.

CT, just because your facts are correct doesn't mean you're not baiting. Many people feel that you have a way of saying things that provokes strong reactions.

 

Damn damn damn... don't want to validate it but...

..."physically inferior" could mean anything. There are other ways to judge physical "superiority" besides upper body strength, and clearly women can do many things men cannot do. We could start with, oh, I dunno, ensuring the survival of the species by bearing the young-- men suck at that physical activity, and it's kind of important.

But CT knows this, and is just trying for a reaction, followed by-- as I predicted-- an inane "Hey, what'd I say?" faux-defense. It is textbook trolling. I say fire up the Good Ship Banhammer. General negativity is a drag but no crime; spuriously slagging off a whole gender just to get attention and provoke anger we do not need.

 

Perhaps we should just ignore him- i think he enjoys this far too much
but if "physical superiority" matters so much- why there even is humans in the armies of GFFA then?- Wookiees for example are much much stronger....

 

Bring on the young Ackbar!

-JR

 

If you think stating elementary scientific fact is trolling, then ban away. Sex differences in humans.

Men are bigger, stronger (not just upper body, the entire body) and faster, this is well known and widely accepted and in no way controversial.

I really don't see what there is to be offended about.

We're talking about clone soldiers here, I don't think bearing children is a desired trait.

We're talking about clone soldiers, who all have the same vision and training, they all have the same accuracy with weapons. (canon)

For example, clone snipers do not differ from standard clones because of their shooting, but because of other skills related to snipers, such as concealment, infiltration, etc.

If you're going to make a clone army from the template of a human, that human should have the absolute highest physical potential possible. The clones will all have the same training and vision (perfect), so all that's left is physical ability.

Men have more potential in size, strength, speed, endurance, durability, etc which is widely accepted as very important in combat.

Swash and Humble agree with me, yet it is somehow still baiting/trolling. Is it simply the words inferior/superior that bothers you? Of course it was meant in a simple physical/athletic sense. This is not a social statement.

This is a ridiculous conversation and one of the reasons I'm thinking of "quitting" the LACWAC permanently.

There is no "who me?" in my responses, more like "you guys are being ridiculous".

 

Numbers, I believe. And maybe they're just more prone to getting into fights. Though one wouldn't think that would be as much of an issue with cloning.

So was I. As far as the U.S. military goes, anyway. I don't know of other nations do it.

But again, that's not even what's in discussion. Even our military allows women to serve in high-ranking positions. One would think that the Star Wars galaxy, which has frequently shown both men and women fighting in the trenches (at least in the EU), would not shy away from a high-ranking female officer.

 

I think it is obvious to most what you meant ? the way you said that males were superior to females is what was considered trolling. It?s not that we don?t understand what you meant, it?s the way you statement appeared to bait.

It is clear that males, obviously, are bigger and stronger than females ? that is an evolutionary fact ? however that in no way donates superiority of one gender over the other in a broader sense (not even a military sense necessarily). Females are obviously superior to males in different facets... for example I would argue females provide better judgement in certain leadership qualities (matriarchal society would probably work better with the lack of male-centred violence or egotism especially with female ability to ?reason? better), whilst they are also more agile and lean, not to mention the child bearing. I agree with the fact that a male genome was required for the clone army ? after all evolutionary males are physically stronger and more powerful and it is their ?role? to act as a ?defender/hunter? ? however the way you blatantly said ?males are superior to females? was illogical.

It?s like saying a Lion is superior to a Lioness. Typically the Lioness does all the work and hunts for the food... yet Lions are undeniably stronger and more powerful.

BTW I am male.

 

I guess inferior/superior was a poor choice of words, but since everyone knew the context (clone soldiers) I was using it in and that it was factually correct, couldn't they just take it how I meant it and not get offended?

Btw I would argue that men are more agile, though I don't think it's clear fact.

I think they are definitely more lean, if by lean you mean less body fat.

If by lean you mean smaller, well human society usually sees bigger as better, especially in terms of combat.

I am not talking about social roles, I'm speaking strictly about physical capabilities in combat in relation to clone troopers.

 

Of course. How could anyone possibly think you were being deliberately provocative in order to get a response? A real mystery for the ages.

Now that we've cleared that up, why don't you tell us which ethnicities are physically and intellectually superior to others? Knowing the physical inferiority of my gender, I am interested to know if my race makes me even inferior-er.

("Who, me?")

 

If you want to respond to what you believe is trolling with trolling of your own, go right ahead.

Whether you believe it or not, I did not intend to troll, bait, insult or disrespect in any way.

Feel free to ignore my comments so that we can avoid this direction in the future.

Speaking of female/alien officers, Sev'rance Tann was a character I greatly enjoyed and wished they hadn't killed off so quickly. They could have used her for TCW.

 

well i would say women (while having more fat and less water in their bodies) are more agile and flexible than males- while having less muscular mass and strength- but then again personal differences are also big it's not only sex that matters in that.... fit female is definitely powerful enough to be a soldier... also claiming that human males being superior and only ideal candidate for clonetemplate is pure bantha poodoo..... if physical strength is only thing that matters wookiee ot talz or something is much better choice than little weak biped known as human- those are physically superior what comes to strength- even ewoks are actually very strong compared to their size so human male or female- is not best choice at all what comes to strength....

Ok my theories about imperial humanocentrism based on saga and EU-information- pure fanon maybe but some points are canonically truth :


Clone template was chosen by Count Dooku out of two mandalorian warriors that are traditionally human men- yet there is females in their midsts and sometimes even aliens like rodians are seen but pure mandos are humans and coincidentally two remaining warriors were Jango and Montross- Dooku has sometimes said to have speciesistic attitudes -believing humans are genetically superior to other sentients- possibly he was also sexist.... so it feels natural Dooku wouldn't want aliens or females to be cloned- those are inferior anyway... it's also interesting how Dooku's both T-canonical acolytes are non-humans and another one is even female -perhaps he thought that having naturally "inferior" apprentice he wouldn't have to fear betrayal- like the one he is planning for Sidious.....

Jedi Council being mostly alien and Yoda being Dooku's teacher- i think Dooku thought Yoda don't understand him because he is not human- Dooku saw the corruption in the republic and get the picture that it is fault of certain alien species like greedy neimoidians- that was of course untruth- there were corrupted humans as well and idealistic non-humans- Sidious' machinations changed the natural balance and he managed to create groups of non-humans that were persuaded to aid him in his plans- most importantly the neimoidians of the Trade Federation- Sidious aided Nute Gunray to be the viceroy of the federation- slowly neimoidians took over entire TF- in Eriadu trade summit security battledroids had a "malfunction" and they murdered all non-neimoidian members of TF-leadership (humans and other species included)
this made it easy to all kind of crazy speciesistic exremists to claim some species are not natural leaders, they're dangerous to society and they should be subjugated or even enslaved- while totally mad and twisted point of view- they easily gained more support "Yeah looks like neimoidians in TF have made the corruption worse"- some were smart enough not to completely reveal their true attitudes like Tarkin.....

I don't think Emperor has any clear speciesistic attitudes- he is pure evil- all others are tools for him- humans or not...some more important tools than others(Anakin, Tarkin, Sienar, Poggle, Dooku, Gunray)..... but raised on Naboo (maybe) he understood how fear of all kind of difference and speciesism are excellent tools for ruling the galaxy so he made sure some species receive bad name causing speciesistic attitudes...
This created speciesistic spacenazis- guys who believed they have power over others as superior master-species and placing these guys to command sectors giving some troops and fleets and free will to do whatever you want- as long as you answer to the Emperor- was what created the imperial system "Regional governors have full control over their territories"- not all of those were spacenazis- not all even humans maybe- but most of them were both.....



One good example of how imperials think was Imperial Cato Neimoidia in TFU2- Merillion Tarko- who was republic officer in the Clon