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Rebels Fenn Rau

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by Jedi Knight Fett, Jan 27, 2016.

  1. Bardan_Jusik

    Bardan_Jusik Mand'alor - Manager of EUC, SWC and Anthology/BtS star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 14, 2009
    You mean this clip? :p



    Yes, yes he does. :p
     
  2. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett Force Ghost star 8

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2014
    Well Ezra sucks. :p
     
    The Shadow Emperor likes this.
  3. Vorax

    Vorax Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2014
    Rau Rau Rau your boat gently down the drain...is Rau planting the seeds of a new war between Jedi and Mandalorian, such a fragile peace. Maul leaving the Darksaber there seems genius. So much arrogance, hate & anger from them. And the the Jedi forgot there can only be two, a master and apprentice, no more no less. Training more than one student was forbidden by the Jedi Council. I sense danger. probably by the end of the episode though in typical Rebels form, everyone is happy and friends again. 8-}[face_cowboy]
     
  4. MandoArtist

    MandoArtist Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2015
    Jeez, Kanan is losing his mind this episode. :eek:

    Using all the tools at your disposal is something Mandalorians have never shy'd from.
     
  5. DavrelKex

    DavrelKex Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Aug 18, 2016
    I think Vorax has the right idea; Rau isn't a psycho like Viszla but he clearly prefers the traditional Mandalorian ways and is influencing Sabine. Kanan is probably pushing against that because he wants Sabine to stick to his ways.

    I doubt it leads to much other than further demonstration of the cultural rivalry, and I don't think Rau is after war outright. Just a unified, strong, traditional Mandalore.
     
  6. Vorax

    Vorax Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2014
    MandoArtist

    She is full of anger. She was being disrespectful and overly aggressive towards Ezra and she then attacked Kanan aggressively. All of this is during a what appears to be a sword training exercise. She has to respect her fellow student and teacher. There must be discipline.
     
    Vialco likes this.
  7. MandoArtist

    MandoArtist Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2015
    Right, but Sabine is not a Jedi, she's a Mandalorian. She can't move objects with her mind, treating her like a Padawan isn't the ideal approach for her. Not saying she's in the right, but I don't think Kanan understands that Sabine is not Ezra.
     
  8. DavrelKex

    DavrelKex Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Aug 18, 2016
    I think Kanan probably knows what he's doing.
     
  9. TheSilentInfluence

    TheSilentInfluence Silent and Friendly Mod of SWTV and SWC. star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jul 15, 2014
    Exactly. Everyone learns differently. Trying to force everyone to learn the same way never goes well for anyone, because you don't let the individual thrive in ways they are good at.
     
    Mia Mesharad and MandoArtist like this.
  10. The Shadow Emperor

    The Shadow Emperor Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2012
    "Go take Bridger down a peg or two."

    Fenn Rau, you're a man after my own heart. [face_love]
     
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  11. Vorax

    Vorax Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2014
    Well Kanan had to punish her , she has to learn the right way from the wrong, otherwise she's gonna get kicked out and lose her friends. Its not about winning, but how you win. Some students have to learn the hard way. But you don't need to be a Jedi to have respect and be disciplined . She is being trained by Kanan who is her teammate, her friend and her teacher there and Ezra is a fellow student and a friend. She's a member of The Ghost crew before she is a Mandalorian, and she should have a better understanding of the chain of command and respect for authority figures and comrades also because she's a Mandalorian by birth. Some of you confuse being a warrior with being a savage or whatever. There was nothing noble or honorable in her training misfire. Sword fighting also requires a great discipline and control, even of temper, as does being a soldier in the modern world. And if Ezra or Kanan wanted to, they could've used the Force and layeth the law down, but as they were restraining themselves while in her frustration and anger she was not. Her methods are the ways of the dark side.

    I think a lot of this is showing, the same arrogance of the Jedi of the Clone Wars and Kanan despite now being a Jedi Knight, is not ready for the burden but is trying more confidently than he was in the first two seasons. All the anger present is interesting, but being Rebels I expect her and them to come around at the end, but its still interesting from these clips. The Darksaber may prove to be a gift as well as a curse. Maul's gift of fury.
     
  12. MandoArtist

    MandoArtist Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2015
    I've really grown to like him.
     
  13. The Shadow Emperor

    The Shadow Emperor Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2012
    I used to be fine with him until I started watching Rebels regularly and noticed that he gets 90% of the character development on this show. The overexposure is far worse than Ahsoka ever got, which I still hear people complaining about to this day.
     
  14. godisawesome

    godisawesome Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 14, 2010
    I think it may be recognition of the fact that, as awesome as gadgets and tools are, they aren't really a counterpart to Force abilities, and treating them as such is a bad idea. As Kanan pointed out, the Jedi defeated the Mandalorians. In fact, TCW and Rebels spent most of its time with Mandalorians and Force users showcasing how the former were still outclassed by the latter, especially whenever the Mandos got cocky.You want to beat a Force User? You need focus, and you need to react immediately to the results of any problem that a failed tactic leads to... Much like what you should do while wielding a laser blade that can cut through your own wrist if you accidentally brush against it.

    Using a lightsaber requires Jedi-like concentration, especially when you consider that most of the problems it's used to resolve can be resolved using other technology. Sabine's won more on screen honor duels than Vizsla because she chose a weapon suited to her task, a weapon she's already mastered. If she's going to use the Darksaber, she needs to use it because it's the best tool at hand and she needs to use it most effectively. You treat it like a ceremonial trophy that you can show off with, like Pre Viszla usually did, and you're going to get in over your head and lose a fight. Pre Viszla was most effective using the Darksaber against a bunch of henchmen flying into close quarters with him, when he silently and economically cut them down without any grandstanding. And it worked because that's the purpose of a lightsaber to a non-Force user: a lethal and dangerous close quarters weapon.

    Sabine can't be showy if she's going to try and use the Darksaber (or any other lightsaber, like Ezra's) in combat. And she was getting showy and cocky.
     
    TheSilentInfluence likes this.
  15. Vorax

    Vorax Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2014
    I think the greater point was doing what she did and how she did it. She could've hurt her fellow student and friend as it was a sword training exercise, all for personal glory and ego. It ,was just to win and humiliate her opponent. Kanan is training her his way, the Jedi way, not her way or Rau's..so not the Mandalorian way on these programs. Which incidentally did not work for Pre in his duel against Maul nor against Kenobi or Ahsoka.

    Ezra isnt the brightbulb and his abilities wax and wane on this show for whatever the writers want. Not really sure why at this point in time, he's still basically an inexperienced novice, not prepared for the unexpected, which is also part of the Jedi training even. Its like despite all the development, there really isnt any,lol. Kanan and Ezra have issues, they're all flawed characters from the portrayals. But thats not an excuse for their actions when they fail.
     
  16. ARC_RC-7567

    ARC_RC-7567 Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Jan 22, 2015
    If they supported the Republic then they very obviously were not Satine's Royal Guard at the time or openly supported her government and its beliefs. Filoni said in the Rebels Recon video for The Protector of Concord Dawn that they *were* a type of kings guard for the leader of Mandalore. The Protectors more than likely exiled themselves after the Mandalorian Civil War that left Mandalore disarmed and with Satine as its ruler. They are just as, if not more armed than Death Watch and we know Fenn Rau is a strong supporter of Mandalorian tradition. I doubt him and the Protectors would stand to serve pacifists and be turned into basic police officers.

    The difference between them and Death Watch then is that the Protectors allied themselves with the Republic.
     
  17. TheSilentInfluence

    TheSilentInfluence Silent and Friendly Mod of SWTV and SWC. star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jul 15, 2014
    I get what your saying. She's definitely overconfident amd hates losing. Sabine most likely feels like failure isn't an option, but every hurt; everytime she loses in a fight against Kanan...that's a lesson. I get what Kanan is trying to do, I really do. But he can't treat her like a Jedi. She's not. So Sabine won't learn the same way.

    Also Vorax, I really doubt the Ghost Crew or Rebellion would kick Sabine out for getting frustrated. Or lose her friends. They really care about Sabine and want what's best for her; kicking her out would be the worst and last thing they would do. She's apart of their family. Sabine needs to learn how to control her emotions, and Kanan needs to teach her that. But ultimately she is Mandalorian, not a Jedi. Kanan shouldn't try to turn her into something she's not.
     
  18. DavrelKex

    DavrelKex Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Aug 18, 2016
    I love how people will continually fight against the Mando v. Jedi concept despite the creators throwing stuff like "hey, this was designed to counter Jedi". I mean I get it force users are cool and always will be the center but why can't folks just give credit? Yeah Jedi beat the mandos, guess what they also beat the Sith lol and yet Sith fight Jedi and no one bats an eye.
     
  19. Vorax

    Vorax Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2014

    So that is an earlier training session that went haywire, and the later session also went south with her again losing it, and apparently losing or damaging her vambrace along with the light/electro whip:

     
  20. TheSilentInfluence

    TheSilentInfluence Silent and Friendly Mod of SWTV and SWC. star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jul 15, 2014

    I wonder if they are going to get specific with the whole Jedi beat Mando's thing? Like, will they reference Revan and Malak?
     
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  21. DavrelKex

    DavrelKex Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Aug 18, 2016
    Probably yeah, there will be a powerful Revan type character that led the charge. I kind of like the idea that Tar Viszla led the Jedi to ultimately defeat his own people. Would give a very firm reason for such a bitter rivalry between the two cultures.
     
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  22. godisawesome

    godisawesome Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 14, 2010
    I think it's more that *mature* warrior Force users are nightmares to most Mandos, while fully trained Mandos are nightmares for any immature, esoteric or reckless Force Users, with the payoff being fueled by the Mando gadgets and the reaction of the Jedi to them. Ezra was utterly thrown off by the repulsor, as were almost any Jedi who encountered the device in the first place-- except those Jedi and Sith who soon adapted and learned to keep their danger senses at full peak and their reactions on point. Viszla was defeated on three seperate occasions by Force users-- but all three were exceptional, with Kenobi being the master of defensive fighting, Ahsoka as the Chosen One's apprentice, and the warrior aescetic Maul.

    Jango Fett, while no longer an official Mandalorian, and his clones should probably be viewed as the best example of how a highly skilled human warrior with Mandalorian equipment/near facsimiles can engage and defeat Jedi; no flash, no showboating, all business, with constant and varied attacks utilizing all equipment. Including, rather specifically, avoiding melee with a lightsaber equipped Force User if at all possible. It's more the Jedi's wheelhouse, in the same way ranged combat is a Mandalorian's. And it's why Fett, his clones, and great Mandalorians managed to engage Jedi point for point. Viszla was a showboater with a lot of arrogance, engaging Kenobi and Aksoka in needless duels, the latter after she'd decapitated four of his men. Jango, meanwhile, just shoots a distracted Jedi Master until he dies-- as does Barca, Appo, and Bly.

    And, to put it bluntly, Sabine and Ezra are arguably faced with the same problem; any opponents they meet will be more experienced and presumably fully trained. Sabine shouldn't "play" with her gauntlets, in the same way Ezra shouldn't swashbuckle his saber against opponents.

    Heh, now I'm wondering if Kanan's problem was that Sbaine was using the whipcord on the Jedi Knight when she should have used the toxic darts!
     
  23. Chris0013

    Chris0013 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 21, 2014
    However she needs to learn to use the Darksaber by itself before trying to get fancy and incorporate it into a style using all the tools she has.
     
  24. DavrelKex

    DavrelKex Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Aug 18, 2016
    I don't think Kanans advice was supposed to mean anything other than that she shouldn't rely on the "easy" way. He'd say the same thing to a force user. Force abilities are not an automatic win button any more than gadgets are for mandos. His point, to me, was those things have their place and applications in combat but that any warriors true focus must first and foremost be training and discipline; aka the basics. I don't buy into linear "x character type can or can't beat y character type" because it's stupid and makes for very uncompelling stories. In this particular instance there is so much lore behind the that mandos are perfectly capable opponents against Jedi that arguing that a Mando, or any other non force character, can't beat a force user is really just asinine. I suppose it grates against me more because I've spent years role playing and writing stories in various universes for people in DnD and MMOs and there is *always* people that just can't accept that anyone can lose a fight to anyone else. The phrase is "any given Sunday" and it's what makes things interesting. If you operate under the condition if x character has y power then they always win against z character then there is no point to having anyone but x characters.
     
    godisawesome likes this.
  25. godisawesome

    godisawesome Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 14, 2010
    Anybody else love the way Rau comes off as respectful of the Jedi's convictions and skills while still being mildly competitive with them? It comes off as very Canderous Ordo, and I like that!

    Hopefully, we see him give more lore on the history between the Mandos and the Jedi; the fact he carries vambraces apparently custom loaded for Force Users may imply such a load out is a traditional Mandalorian answer to a Jedi. And the vibe record Sabine carries looks like it's energized a bit; I don't think we're seeing it resist Kanan's lightsaber, but it is glowing for some reason. Maybe it's mildly tougher to cut?