Full Series Reconciling "The Last of the Jedi" with Rebels

It's not like Yoda is giving this exposition solely to Luke, he is giving it to the audience too. Exposition that is constantly conveniently ignored just makes the audience trust it less, until they're kinda uninterested in anything that is told. If the creators don't even care about their own continuity, why should small little me care?

 

It's yet to really be seen how many of these 3rd party Force users come out. Ahsoka for all intents and purposes is a Jedi. I mean, she's not in the sense that she left the Jedi order, but that doesn't make her any fundamentally different than she was before.

The Jedi Order is run by a Council of twelve masters that she disagreed with. So she left. That doesn't mean that her sense of right or wrong changed, or that she has different religious beliefs. The only thing that's different is that she trusts her own instincts and determines what the right course of action is by herself. She doesn't let a council decide that for her. But Luke was the same, yet he's a Jedi. He's got Yoda and Obi-Wan telling him that he has to confront Vader, and Obi-Wan telling Luke that if he's not willing to kill Vader, then the Emperor has already won. Yet, Luke refuses to do that and found his own path, and things worked out.

Ahsoka is not a Jedi in that she walked away from the Jedi Order, but to someone like Palpatine, who knew full well that she walked away from the Order, he still refers to her as a Jedi. The galaxy is going to still see her as a Jedi.

The Inquisitors are different in that they are probably the closest thing to a "Dark Jedi" as we can get. The Sith are about surviving at any cost, The Inquisitor of Season 1 was willing to let go of his life. The Sith are all about using hatred to fuel their power. The Inquisitor (according to Pablo) doesn't get angry nor draw his strength from anger. So he has to keep his mind clear of anger, like a Jedi. He is willing to let go of life, like a Jedi. But he's fighting on the side of evil, like the Sith.

Filoni can sit there and say that Ahsoka isn't a Jedi and try to find the loophole that there's room for other lightside Force users in the Galaxy, but he kind of shot himself in the foot when Vader tells Palpatine of Ahsoka and Palpatine regards her like a Jedi. And when this is a guy that fears the potential for Force sensitive kids to pose a threat to him, then there is no way in hell that he's going to tolerate Ahsoka. I think her days are numbered, and I would be extremely let down, if she survives Rebels. If Filoni didn't want her to die, then he should have just let her walk out of the Temple and left her fate unknown. Her survival into the OT is opening a huge can of worms. Kanan as well.

Ezra kind of depends on how far his training gets. But when Palpatine fears Luke as the threat that can destroy them and Yoda says that only Luke and Leia really present the hope of triumph, then I'm thinking that whatever threat Ezra posed to the Empire must have abated (he died, fell to the Dark Side, etc.)

The Inquisitors I think create the issue of Filoni acknowledging that they are kind of breaking the Rule of Two in everything but name. Yeah, they're not Sith, but they are a bunch of Force users running around. Filoni says that they are an acceptable degree of chaos that he allows to help hunt down the Jedi. But once the Jedi are gone, all that is left are the Children of the Force. who were to be either recruited or killed by the Inquisitors. And I doubt that Vader or Palpatine are personally training the Inquisitors. They have an Empire to run. I'd think existing Inquisitors are training the new recruits, but if the Inquisitors are no longer needed to hunt down Jedi, then they just seem like a liability. And when it comes to Luke. It's just curious that Palpatine sent Vader after Luke, but would rather send two Inquisitors after Ahsoka. You would think that Luke, being a link to Anakin Skywalker, would not be someone that Palpatine would want to send Vader after. I would just think he'd throw several Inquisitors after Luke to bring him in to be trained by Palpatine. But this doesn't happen. Luke was a child of the Force, and yet Vader gets sent to deal with it. Where were the Inquisitors? Something makes me suspect that either there aren't that many Inquisitors and the heroes manage to kill them all. Or there are a lot of Inquisitors and Palpatine purges them all when they are no longer needed. Because given the mission they are carrying out, I would just think that they would have been sent after Luke like crazy.

 

Didn't the inquisitor refer to Vader as "my master" in Gathering Forces ? Are there other masters or just Vader ?

 

Vader's clearly his ranking superior that gives him orders. But I just can't picture Vader training a bunch of disciples in lightsaber combat and how to use the Force. It's just conjecture on my part, but I'd think that's like a full time job and that they'd have like Inquisitor taskmasters to train new Children of the Force selected to be trained as Inquisitors.

 

Maybe they borrow the concept of High Inquisitors from the EU. I think Jerec would do just fine in the show, he'd fit. He's another of these overly arrogant villains.

 

I was hoping they would -if anything- go the route of General Grievous,where you have a guy trained in the art of lightsaber battle and can actually hold his own in combat with a Jedi Master. No need to muddy the waters with being a Dark Side Force user.

 

In the special edition season one premiere its clear Vader received Orders from the Emperor and he passed the decree down to the subordinate , the Inquisitor. In the season two premiere its Sidious telling Vader to dispatch another Inquisitor( two are dispatched this season so one more will be activated), so its pretty clear these warriors are shared between the two Sith Lords and used as foot soldiers to their dirty work or soften up the enemy, basically expendable assets no matter if they're highly trained forces in the end thats what they are to Sith. Vader as the Sith Apprentice would most likely be the one tasked with training them as the Sith Master would be too busy. Sidious seems buried in the dark arts 24/7 these days. Probably have to wait for one of these Inquisitors to start yapping about who and what they are and their origins during some hero vs villain chat for us to get any incite as they do not seem to be sharing much on the official forums or interviews aside for the basics and obvious.

 

Grievous worked because he was a cyborg and therefore faster, stronger etc than mortal flesh and blood, not to mention the whole multiple limbs deal. That's how he kept up with Jedi in the first place. A perfectly vanilla muggle fighting a Force-user with a lightsaber should last as long as it takes for the force user to stop laughing and get it over with. Viszla versus Maul and Jango vs Kenobi show that good warriors and experience can let a well armed muggle take on a Jedi, but in a lightsaber duel? Nah. And with Grievous kaput and Vader stomping everyone we don't need another cyborg running around.

 

I recall reading that Luke was/is too strong for Inquisitors. He was, after all, the son of the Chosen One. Plus, during the OT, the galaxy was in the state of civil war and it required the attention of Vader/Sidious to defeat the Rebel Alliance.

Inquisitors are like the Clones. Expandable option, which could easily be replaced.

 

I got the impression the inquisitors were wiped out by the time of ANH so maybe the mission of the Ghost crew is to destroy them but also neither the emperor or Vader seem to care about them or Ahsoka, so I am going to guess they have joined the Rebel Alliance at some point.

 

You know what if they told Luke that in case he didn't defeat Vader and Palpatine but instead joined them?

Would make an interesting twist if they kept the existence of Kanan and the others a secret to prevent them being found out if Luke spilled the beans wouldn't it?!

Would also explain why they never seemed to cross paths if this was to insure at least one Jedi survived should Luke or them for that matter are killed ior subverted wouldn't it?

 

Since Vader knows about their existence, it is no longer a secret. Like he said, he will offer them to join the empire or die. I sense another fight against him and this time it won't be an happy ending for one of them.

 

But that's the idea. Get creative. Don't just re-package the same concepts. Create a character that can stand up to the Jedi.

 

But that's essentially what you're asking for... You want a repackaging of characters.

 

No, I wanted a non-Force user proficient in Lightsaber combat. It doesn't have to be a reptilian cyborg with four arms. Get creative with it.

 

So Vizla then? However you try to spin it, what you are asking for is a character with similar qualities reskinned to be just slightly different. That's pretty much what repackaging is...

 

If you're going to go by that narrow definition you might as well say Darth Maul is a repackaging of Darth Vader. It goes deeper than that.

 

Cad Bane didnt last long with the captured lightsaber during that Kenobi fight. Vizla I think is proficient or semi so, since that darksaber was in his family for generations so he would've naturally trained himself to use it. But even he was not a match in saber combat against Tano, Kenobi and Maul - he would be forced to use all sorts of other weapons and manpower numbers to try and tip the duels in his favor.

Normal beings would have to resort to their physical conditioning, assortment of weapons and weapons that can fight against Lightsabers and be lethal to Jedi and also strength in numbers as well whenever possible or ideal.

 

Sith and Jedi as depicted in the movies are very much two sides of the same coin.

 

No, Filoni has said the Inquisitors are still around in ANH - just focusing on minor aspects of the Rebel Alliance.

 

Perhaps Palpatine assumed Luke was less of a threat to Vader than Ahsoka, remember ROTJ proved him wrong on that count would make sense whatever ends up happening with Ahsoka may have left Palpatine thinking this was worth trusting Vader with?

 

The problem I have is that I'm pretty sure Palpatine ultimately wants Ahsoka dead, eventually. Filoni has even said that if Vader and Ahsoka meet, Vader would want to destroy her, because she's a reminder of the person he wants to forget.

Palpatine wants to see where Ahsoka will lead him (hopefully to other surviving Jedi), so he probably doesn't want Vader and her in a room together yet, because he doesn't her dead yet.

With Luke however, Palpatine wanted him as a new apprentice. Under the Rule of Two, this is pretty much a death sentence to Vader, and Vader likely would have known that.

So you have two possibilities:

1. Vader is going to want Luke dead, because he's a reminder of Anakin Skywalker - Palpatine just maintains the status quo with this outcome, but loses a potentially more powerful apprentice
2. Palpatine entrusts the guy he's going to replace with tracking down his son and bringing him back to be trained to make Vader expendable - risky for Palpatine, since this could promote treachery (which it did)

If there were still Inquisitors around I would think he would explore option 3.

3. Do not inform Vader of Luke. Send Inquisitors after Luke with orders to bring him in alive (they have no reason to disobey this order). When they succeed, Paplatine turns Luke and does not tell Vader of what he's done, until he's ready to test his new apprentice against Vader.

Luke will never learn that Vader is his father.
Vader will not know that his master betrayed him until it's too late.
Vader will never have that confirmation that Luke is his son.
Palpatine entrusts Luke's capture to individuals that aren't emotionally in turmoil on Luke's account and can be entrusted with the mission.

Now, there's the argument I've seen being made that perhaps Vader thought Luke was just going to be trained as an Inquisitor and not a Sith, but by the time of ROTJ, it's extremely obvious that he's going to be made Palpatine's apprentice, and Vader knows this.

"I look forward to completing your training. In time you will call me 'master.'" -Palpatine
"He is your master now" -Vader

So, unless Vader has somehow been convinced that the Rule of Two has been abandoned (but there's no evidence of this), then it's really out in the open that Palpatine is going to replace Vader with his son. And had he just made use of the Inquisitor's, then you'd think he could have avoided putting all that out for Vader to know.

 

The rule of two has been abandoned. When Palpatine had the opportunity to kill Maul, the third Sith, he didn't do it. Palpatine's modus operandi is to collect as many assets as possible, if he can have two powerful Sith warriors (Vader & Luke) that's all the better.

 

"Now, fulfill your destiny ... and take your father's place at my side!"

Came across as "kill Vader, fulfilling your destiny - and then replace him."

 

He has no intentions to replace Vader as his apprentice before this point. In TESB he trusts Vader so much that he even allows him near Luke Skywalker, thus giving Vader the perfect opportunity to commit treachery.

Palpatine sacrifices his allies when it is a necessity, not out of some misguided religious principle. He is a pragmatist first and foremost.