Lit Finally, Aliens in the Empire Part 3? Handley and Peña are on a Roll!

TZizvvt pls

 

Okay, let's not validate Karen Traviss's accusations of Naziism among fandom any more than necessary. You and Pablo strenuously disagree about the measurements of some make-believe ships, and have used some heated language in the process. Got it. Understood. That's not an excuse to dehumanize the man.

 

Edit: Nvm, don't want to open this can of worms...

 

Yeah, we've got enough people in the fandom validating it as it is.

Seemed appropriate to me before your edit. I hate Starkiller, but Mary/Gary Stu gets thrown around way too easily these days, and extremely unfairly in who's fair game and who's "just being an interesting character."

 

The term has lost all meaning, but I can imagine what the response would be, and I just don't want to get bogged down in an argument of semantics because I really don't care enough and I know that it's just a rubber stamp to "objectively legitimize" what is ultimately an opinion.

I've honestly lost all patience for the myriad of complaints here that pretend to be based on principle, but really aren't. Oh well. The EU fandom has become the Grand Inquisitor. If Luke Skywalker was an EU character, he would be hated.

 

Mara Jade doesn't count, since she came to the academy later with Cilghal and Kyp. I don't really count Harlan as a character...she's just a role-playing example, isn't she? I'd actually prefer the two missing inaugural members to be non-Human characters, but I doubt we'll ever get a final say on who they are.

 

Human but non-white characters would be preferable.

 

I would like for one of them to be Halla, I like that old charlatan

 

Most people's problem with Starkiller has more to do with his supposed involvement in the founding of the Alliance to Restore the Republic, which I pointed out in the Rebels thread in describing why the original version meant something to most fans, than anything else about him. Though there are plenty of people who still hate him as a character too. I myself am not really that fond of him, which is part of the reason why I can so easily reject TFU.

 

Godwin's Law already? Wow.

Disrespecting authors and treating certain fans poorly does not a good LFL employee make. Especially not one engaged in fan-firm relations. Pablo is an employee who abuses his position, not a victim.

 

Why not? I've noticed Hidalgo do it from time to time over the years. Obviously it doesn't bother him to bring it up in a snarky manner now and then.

I wish I had cohorts. Btw, never talked to the man, myself.

Sorry, being in an official position does not exempt someone from personal criticism. Just look at Traviss and Saxton and how they were treated by some LFL officials and certain segments of the fandom to this day.

 

I think you should go with Tionne.

 

Did Mara count as a member of the original twelve? I thought she was excluded.

 

I have Tionne listed as one of the original twelve.

Kyle was a member? I thought he was on the outs with being a Jedi after Mysteries of the Sith.

 

I can't believe I forgot Tionne!

1. Gantoris - replaced by Kyp Durron and Cilghal
2. Streen
3. Kam Solusar
4. Corran Horn/Keiran Halcyon
5. Dorsk 81
6. Kirana Ti
7. Brakiss
8. Kyle Katarn
9. Tionne
10. Madurrin
11. Keyan Farlander? or Dal Konur? or Harvet Storm? or Ken?
12. Harlan

 

Ah, I see the story - Kyle joined the Academy and left after Exar Kun's defeat.

 

I want to say that the NEGTC placed MOTS before JAT, and had Kyle joining as a means of dealing with his issues from MOTS. But I might be misremembering.

 

That is correct -- MOTS was concurrent with Dark Empire.

 

We're talking about the inaugural class from JAT, which was 12 students. We don't know all of them, so there's speculation about the two missing ones.

I still say that Harlan doesn't count. She's a stand-in Role-playing example, not an actual character.

 

According to the Wookieepedia, Leland Chee said he didn't think of her as a real character. But I don't think that stops some authoer from making her official. A few sample characters over the years have become "real."

 

Even if she is more than a RP stand-in, there's nothing in the JAT Sourcebook which requires her to be a member of the original 12. At least Dal Konur can be tied to training alongside other inaugural members, all we know of Harlan is that she learned some RP skills.

 

Do Kyle Katarn really count as part of the O12? Or is he, like Captain America, an original member inspite that he come after the others ?

 

We didn't originally know that he was an inaugural member. He isn't mentioned in JAT or I, Jedi. But, The Dark Forces Saga, a RP supplement on WotC clarified that he was an inaugural member, even becoming friends with Corran. Though why that was never mentioned in I, Jedi, who knows. TDFS says that Katarn left after Gantoris and Kyp fell to the dark side, probably around the same time that Brakiss left.