Finally got round to reading the stuff in the back of the VP e-book

[Click here to download the free Vector Prime PDF - which seems to be basically the content of the TUF CD - for free from Amazon.com...]

Yeah, old news...

But, anyway, finally got round to reading the interview and stuff - and, in no particular order...

• They really didn't have a clue what they were doing. Sure, they talk a lot about Joseph Campbell, and then they talk some about how flexible the arrangement of archetypal elements can be according to the specifics of the tale being told - but when they get into the nitty-gritty of things, there's stuff that clearly they didn't expect to happen, and the story seems to have gotten just a wee bit out of their control.


• The Yuuzhan Vong seem to have taken on a life of their own. Ideas came together, crosspolinated, and evolved and developed at an alarming rate.


• Zonama Sekot wasn't originally supposed to play quite the part it ended up playing, and ended up as a deus ex machina at least partially by accident...


• I get the sense that, just maybe, they assumed that the NJO would do what Campbell 'told' it to - whereas in fact by starting with one idea, they were, almost by definition, going to end up doing something rather different.


• It seem pretty clear that the original aim of the series was quite simply to (a.) see Anakin Solo emerge as Luke's heir as leader of the Jedi, and (b.) have him learn about the Old Republic's Jedi traditions and simultaneously have his mind expanded by some left-field craziness through Vergere.


• George nixed Anakin being the hero, so they subbed in Jacen - and we have the infamous statement that George was concerned they'd confuse the two Anakins - remember, this was in the run-up to the release of TPM...


• We also learn that George objected to Onimi being described as "dwarfish". Interesting to know that George was consulted directly on that bit, and paying attention.


• Anway, back to the point - which is that these things get away from what they're supposed to do.


• The confusion over whether, in terms of characterization, Anakin is Jacen or vice versa proves this - and, ironically, it is, FACPOV, just what George was trying to avoid all along...


• Love him or loathe him, Jacen doesn't really seem to have assumed a mantle as Luke's successor at the end of the NJO, and all that's been achieved by setting Vergere's POV, the legacy of the Old Republic's Jedi, and the New Jedi tradition of Luke and Mara alongside each other is to show their mutual incompatablity...


• It's said more than once Anakin was supposed to be the "strongest" of the Solo kids. Would be interesting to know what they meant by it, how much was Anakin-specific, and how much was carried over from Jacen's original intended role. And why it annoys me like it does. "Strongest" seems such a crude term, not necessarily in itself, but in terms of the perceptions it implies.


• Reading between the lines, it seems that Mike Stackpole fell out with LFL/DelRey... which seems rather a shame. I get the impression that this came to be just slightly a clash of personalities, but I'd like to know more details.


• Read what they say about the Trickster. Then consider Vergere's relationship with both Jacen and Nom Anor. Was there a deliberate sleight of hand involving Jaina and the fact that she didn't have a clue what she was doing, either?


• At one point, someone runs through the various basic character types they drew up for the NJO - "Jedi, Sith, human, alien, good, bad, other".


• There are some things, I suspect, that they're still not telling us...


• If it is all Campbell, then Anakin Solo's "encounter with the goddess" definately involved Mara Jade - though I'm really not quite sure what to make of the literallness of his Otherworld Journey. Did they intend any of this?

Talk amongst yourselves...

 

Zonama Sekot wasn't originally supposed to play quite the part it ended up playing, and ended up as a deus ex machina at least partially by accident...

By accident, or because they'd written themselves into a corner? I think that their planning was a lot fuzzier than it should have been....

It seem pretty clear that the original aim of the series was quite simply to (a.) see Anakin Solo emerge as Luke's heir as leader of the Jedi, and (b.) have him learn about the Old Republic's Jedi traditions and simultaneously have his mind expanded by some left-field craziness through Vergere.

Yep. And while they did a good job of shifting the first to Jacen (though by the time they hit Traitor, the setup all falls through), the second was just dropped completely, I think.

It's said more than once Anakin was supposed to be the "strongest" of the Solo kids. Would be interesting to know what they meant by it, how much was Anakin-specific, and how much was carried over from Jacen's original intended role.

Recently, I've been rereading the YJK series. It's sick just how many character traits of Jacen's were given to Anakin.

That said, I think that by the "strongest" they were meaning "most resilient", most able to deal with the changes wrought by the Vong, rather than running away like Jaina and curling up into a fetal position shouting "don't hurt me!" like Jacen. I don't really see this being the Jacen of old, though--Anakin's always been the reckless one, which is exactly what the Jedi needed.

Reading between the lines, it seems that Mike Stackpole fell out with LFL/DelRey... which seems rather a shame. I get the impression that this came to be just slightly a clash of personalities, but I'd like to know more details.

I totally don't see this....

There are some things, I suspect, that they're still not telling us...

Of course. It'd involve admission that either they dropped the ball totally, or have been lying their asses off about the creation of the NJO.

 

Now you know where my faith in the persistence of myth comes from. I mean, by rights, this should have been the worst thing ever. EVER. But I rather like it. It has its flaws and its disconnects, it's disjointed in places, but in spite of itself, it's able to tell a story that, for better or worse, really does resonate. Meaning that the people I know who are bored with NJO are few and far between. Most people either love it or hate hate hate it. In my experience.

 

They really didn't have a clue what they were doing.

... and unfortunately they haven't improved either.

 

As per usual,Thrawn, You make...no sense.

 

"George nixed Anakin being the hero, so they subbed in Jacen - and we have the infamous statement that George was concerned they'd confuse the two Anakins - remember, this was in the run-up to the release of TPM..."

Then later, we get alternate stories from other Editors saying that info was in jest, and that Lucas really had no involvement with Anakin's death...

 

Val, even you should be able to read between the lines on that one to see how it spells out 'd-a-m-a-g-e c-o-n-t-r-o-l'

 

ATimson: By accident, or because they'd written themselves into a corner? I think that their planning was a lot fuzzier than it should have been....

Hmm... I think they wanted to allow the novellists freedom to write most of the plot details, but this begs a question or two - are they trying to duck the blame for things like the percieved problems with the Myrkr mission in SbS (though that said, I think Denning was trying to write something dark and psychological here), and what, for instance, was FH3 supposed to be about without Zonama Sekot?

Tahiri?



Yep. And while they did a good job of shifting the first to Jacen (though by the time they hit Traitor, the setup all falls through), the second was just dropped completely, I think.

Really? They seemed to drop the twin thing once they'd used it to beat up on Jimmy and make him feel small in SbS, but with both these 'major themes', d'you think they failed to do what they were trying to, they gave up, or they tried to do something different?

Recently, I've been rereading the YJK series. It's sick just how many character traits of Jacen's were given to Anakin.

Oh? Elaborate!

That said, I think that by the "strongest" they were meaning "most resilient", most able to deal with the changes wrought by the Vong, rather than running away like Jaina and curling up into a fetal position shouting "don't hurt me!" like Jacen. I don't really see this being the Jacen of old, though--Anakin's always been the reckless one, which is exactly what the Jedi needed.

Though I feel compelled to point out that Anakin was the one who ran away in Conquest... though, in keeping with his characterization, he ran towards the Vong...

I totally don't see this....

No?

Of course. It'd involve admission that either they dropped the ball totally, or have been lying their asses off about the creation of the NJO.

Not necessarily. I get the impression that there are some things (in the backstory if not the plotline) that they've held in mind, but which ain't been made explicit...

Sir Lancelot: Now you know where my faith in the persistence of myth comes from. I mean, by rights, this should have been the worst thing ever. EVER. But I rather like it. It has its flaws and its disconnects, it's disjointed in places, but in spite of itself, it's able to tell a story that, for better or worse, really does resonate. Meaning that the people I know who are bored with NJO are few and far between. Most people either love it or hate hate hate it. In my experience.

Agreed. FACPOV. But what does 'resonance' mean?

killfire: ... and unfortunately they haven't improved either.

See what shade said above...

And I should have added that Sue, Shelley, the novellists, and everyone involved at LFL/DelRey did work their ronto off...

Blithe: As per usual,Thrawn, You make...no sense.

Oh? Anything in particular?

Val: Then later, we get alternate stories from other Editors saying that info was in jest, and that Lucas really had no involvement with Anakin's death...

Um, ronto-covering aside, the probable answer is that George simply said they couldn't use Anakin as the hero, and it was the LFL/DelRey planning team who went for the 'straight swap' with Jacen...

The conspiracy theory ( - wasn't it Denning who said that SW should be fun!? ) is that Lucas insisted that Jacen, not Anakin, should be the one to restore the Sith, and that Anakin, not Jacen, had to be the one to come back from the dead to stop his brother...



- The Imperial Ewok

 

The conspiracy theory ( - wasn't it Denning who said that SW should be fun!? ) is that Lucas insisted that Jacen, not Anakin, should be the one to restore the Sith, and that Anakin, not Jacen, had to be the one to come back from the dead to stop his brother...

See, this is the type of thing I'm talking about!

Oh, wait, that sounds like a Fan Fic I've been reading.....

 

ive been a big defender, overall, of the NJO on here, but it has its flaws big time, the entire death of anakin thing was pointless and stupid, and it DID seem like they lost their way 2/3rds of the way through....however, the genius of luceno saved the day with arguably the best star wars book ever published

 

Stackpole falling out with DR? How did that come about?

Although he was asked to shorten I, Jedi but insisted any cuts would negate the quality, or something to that effect. Good on him! Publishers and their meddling. If they knew their job, why are so many hollow books out there?

 

It was the editor at the publisher (the one responsible for making the novel a good book, as opposed to making it good Star Wars) who was going to cut things. From the given information, it's hard to tell if his motivation is the good of the book, or the letter of the contract.

Thrawn, I'm going to have to get back to you later--multiple sixteen-hour days at work have killed my coherency for the moment.

 

man that must have been alot of cuts, because i,jedi sucked. the "directors cut" of that one musta been souble the size to make it decent. stackpole is no big loss if there was a falling out

 

No, no, I, Jedi made it through intact (or, at least, Stackpole agreed that stuff cut should have been--that normally happens during the editing process).