ST Finn & Rey in Episode IX

I thought Chirrut had the Force just not to the level of the average Jedi. Unless there's some explanation I'm unaware of, like if his stick helped him "see the Force moving darkly" or to see Jyn's path in the Force?

Though I also think everyone draws upon the Force in Star Wars in some ways. Like that whole sequence with Paige and the remote.

I also see the Force as constantly in the timing of things in Star Wars. It's a great plot device that way.

I'm not against FS Finn, it's just so far he is not FS.

 

Chirrut and Lyra Erso believed in the Force but apparently none of them are FS. But there's several level of Force User, Finn can be one

 

Chirrut is aware of the Force all movie. He uses it when he fights (he's blind but he knows where everything is), he speaks of how he sees it moving (it moves darkly around Cassian because he's about to kill), he speaks of it in why he went with Jyn (her path in the Force is clear). Why is he NOT FS?

I read this article, which attempts to explain everything that Chirrut can do without the Force, but because he can sense it moving around others and the path things might take through it, even the article can't explain that away through "heightened senses." Not to mention how he knew Jyn was there in a crowd and knew about her necklace.

Imwe is using the Force. I just don't see a way around it. It's just that his connection with it may not be as strong as the average Jedi since he can't move objects or unlock doors with the Force (and it wasn't for lack of trying exactly?).

 

Finn and Rey in TLJ? hmmm.....well we did not see much of them together thats for sure

 

Honestly, what purpose would Finn need to be a Force user. His role is something different? I honestly want to know. Is it about parity? (Rey and Kylo are FS, therefore Finn should be too?) Or is it something else.

The great thing about Star wars is highlighting how each hero can be different and has something different to offer.

Luke was the Force user. He carried the Force story as its standard bearer in the OT.
Leia was the military leader. She was the embodiment of the Rebellion (in both the OT and ST.)
Han was the heart of it all. He tied both together. He would do anything to help his friends, and his ace piloting skills managed to save everyone at one time or another. Though he came across selfish, he was so incredibly selfless when it came to Luke and Leia.

So why would Force Sensitivity need to be part of Finn's armament other than he's poster x's favorite character and wants him to be the top hero?

 

I do hope IX explores more of Finn and Rey's dynamic - as best friends.

They work well together as a team/friendship. They do not work well as a romance. Not in a space opera like Star Wars. There is literally no dramatic potential in changing their relationship from a friendship to a romance. It adds nothing to the plot. They already agree on pretty much everything. There is no conflict between them that would cause the other character to grow.

Besides, Daisy Ridley outright said that Rey and Finn view each other as brother and sister. When two unrelated characters view each other in this way, there is no potential for it to move from a friendship to a romance.

But I hope they get some good moments together that acknowledge the friendship they built in the first movie, even if it is obvious that they will be separated for a lot of the movie because they will be involved in different plots.

 

We don't know the story but it is possibly good for a story that could be told. The important thing is the movie. If they are keeping Finn around and he does next to nothing in IX like in TLJ then how does that enhance the character or help the movie? Just keep him around because then he can appear in future movies?

In IX which at most is going to be 2¼ or 2 ½ hours and with all the things that should be in it to try to make sense of this trilogy (not that I am anything but hopeful at best) every stop needs to be pulled out. Not near enough has gone into the overall story to set-up events so they are going to have to pack the first act with all the set-up not done in the first two movies to create stakes then have characters Ren and Rey get drawn in to conflict, crisis, climax and then resolution. It all goes by real quick in just over 2 hours. They'll need ROTS tightness like on Anakin for Ren and Rey and everything will have to go to them. No time for comedy side trips and any overdrawn space battles or sideplots will just get in the way.

Better to make Finn have impact in a dozen scenes and mean something then have 24 and do nothing but just be Rey's friend (which we already know is the case) this is what happened to Han in ROTJ (and Finn already in TLJ) where neither could really contribute to Luke/Rey's story. Han coudn't do so in TESB either so he was used as part of a jeopardy plot on Hoth and as bait used by Vader.

This was different since Obi-Wan could play a real part in Anakin's story just as Padme could. Finn can't do that as he has no relation with Ren of any importance and there is no time to create one now.

Remember though this is a movie where Luke is almost constantly wrong and confused. The Force IS clearly a power that Rey has (as in no training required). He also says it's not about lifting rocks then Rey lifts rocks, Yoda chides Luke about always looking into the sunsets, then Luke looks into the sunsets.

 

@Qui-Riv-Brid

After our depressing Skywalker saga installment in which we watch all the Skywalkers die, you really think Finn and Rey should die too? I mean is IX going to be a funeral dirge? I would like to add in Poe's death as well. Then everyone can be dead. Rose will cry over their graves.

Regarding Luke, RJ said in the commentary that Luke's exposition about the Force was to inform the audience what the Force is. What he means is right in that scene when Rey is feeling the Force. So I think it's highly difficult to argue convincingly that Luke is just confused about the Force.

 

Depends on what they want to do with Ren and Rey really.

Is Ren turning? Why has he been evil all along as it seems? What is this supposed conflict in him we barely see? What really is Rey's role?

As long as they don't know who the characters are and don't tell us then it's impossible to say. So far the ST's way has been characters do whatever is needed to get the story to the place first JJ and then RJ want it to be. It doesn't have to make any real sense as it's lead by emotion propelling events as the characters turn on a dime.

I haven't heard that yet so I'd say to know exactly what he said and in context but in TLJ Luke is confused about the Force, the history of the Jedi and Sith and seems ill-informed about so many things. That RJ knows what he meant is fine for him but I'd say his translation to us in the movie itself was lacking and from other interviews he's done he himself seems truly confused or ill-informed about the history of the Jedi and the legend of Luke Skywalker. On the one hand he promotes as this powerful legend that resonates through the galaxy but has apparently totally faded and has no effect on the people of the galaxy at all until Luke returns for a few minutes to delay the First Order so some Rebels can escape (not that he told them to or had any plan lined up with Rey) and that re-ignites his legend and the legend of the Jedi. These are two strands of story that are in direct conflict with each other in the movie.

To take this to Rey does this mean that IX will start with talk of her now being a legend since she is the only living Jedi around?

I doubt this will be explored in a movie outside a passing mention.

 

In the novelization, Rey also learns that she is the Force's instrument. It's not her instrument. That is learning that the Force is not a power you have. It is an energy field binding everything together. That's all Luke was saying. It's not like you are born with exceptional powers like a superhero and you must use those powers responsibly because your "powers" ARE the Force. You are a part of the Force. It's subtly different, but the difference is *really* important.

Regarding Rey, since KK said she is this generation's Luke Skywalker, that tells me that Rey is the Force hero and she will be successful. Regardless of what occurs this will be a good ending for her. And I similarly know it will be a good ending for Finn.

 

You know what I'd love to see? Rey get ostracized by Poe and the rest of the Resistance's leadership after they learn she has this bond with Kylo. The don't know she journeyed to the Supremacy. They don't know anything about her connection to Kylo. This will likely be hefted as a weapon against her. With as poor of a leader as Poe proved to be in TLJ, I could see him banishing her.

That said, I would love to see Finn being her advocate and the one who trusts her when it comes to not revealing resistance secrets to the enemy or even communicating with Kylo if the need arises for the greater good.

 

Finn living or dying is irrelevant to me. I'm more concerned about him growing and finally being a presence in IX. Not guided about like an awestruck man-child, sidekick, or instrument of humor. If they leverage the chemistry between Finn and Rey, showing what they can do as a team and he holds his own on screen as a true lead, I'll be happy.

I'd much rather that he die if he has agency than to survive and simply be a device for other characters.

 

They've been trying to subvert Chirrut's potential Force sensitivity by claiming he can hear the harmonics of kyber crystals and whatnot, but that moment when he senses the Force moving "darkly" around Cassian shows he's not just some crazy old guy doing amazing things because of his blind faith in the Force.

 

I mean I guess they can try to explain everything as Chirrut's super-hearing. But if he has super-hearing in the Star Wars universe, I kind of feel like the Force would have something to do with that anyway.

 

I assumed he was a force user as well after watching R1, but there was something on the Star Wars website that grouped him as a non force user before TLJ came out.

 

I'm latina and I really hope it will not happens. Demonizing Poe (the only latino of the group) because of Rian's writing? No thanks. The same about Rose's and Rey's arc etc, JJ Abrams can save all these characters and end their arc in this trilogy with respect to them.

And why Finn could think in communicating with Kylo? Kylo put him in a coma. Rey thought she could bring Kylo to the light but it didn't work and she chosed to save her friends, she didn't was trying to betray the Resistance. She made a decision and was in Resistance's side.

 

If I consider Poe as a character who has to represent all Latinos and show Latinos are great, heroic, awesome, important, the best - too.

vs.

If I consider Poe as a character in the SW universe.

They're not the same. The former is an icon, and the latter is a fictional character.

 

I'm not saying that Poe has to represent all Latinos. But for now, Star Wars still is working in making their movies more diverse, they can't just say "we show to you a black, latino and an asian... They are treated like they are terrible people but you need to accept it ".

I saw comments against Poe that Leia slapping him & Holdo putting him "in his place" was the best part of the movie. It's really tiring to see it, Rian also didn't help in Finn and Rose's arc but apparently we need to accept it.

 

There's also more than one "issue" here. Poe's played by a Latino actor, yes. But the character in TLJ is kind of an entitled man. I mean he does act like he wants to be in charge from the moment the announcement is made about the leadership being dead and who is next on the chain of command. He tries to railroad Holdo a lot. So female vs. male is a thing too.

 

The problem is that there's so little representation, that the one or two ever shown become encapsulating. Would be the same if every woman in this universe needed the help of a man.

I agree, the mannerisms and capabilities of these these characters are encapsulating. There isn't enough representation yet to create so many less regarded qualities in the characters and chalk it up to this is another universe, not ours. If that were the case then we wouldn't have KK like physical attributes in all the leading women of the saga.

 

Alledgedly, Kylo will spread the false notion that Rey killed Snoke. That should make her a legend alone.

@Birkendoc If Leia were killed in TLJ, I can see that. But she's still around post-TLJ for the time being. I can see Rey sharing what happened with the Force-Skype. And since she's in charge, I don't see the Resistance ganging up on Rey.

 

But are Poe's attributes tropes of Latino characters? I guess I don't understand why Poe can't be a flawed hero in TLJ.

I mean, it's difficult to tell a story if characters can't be flawed heroes or there can't be something about them or their actions that rubs other characters the wrong way or...

I mean I thought Poe was a bit more interesting in TLJ because he was kind of a cardboard cutout in TFA from my POV.

 

I didn't mean for them to be written without flaws. For example I don't want Poe to be a poor leader. If the GA is relates to Poe's character chauvinistic and/or a poor leader me that's far different than Poe making a critical strategic mistake in leadership (or personal weakness) then learning and growing from it.

 

The characters with the most chemistry in these movies so far are Rey/Finn and Rey/Kylo. If you're gonna do any kind of 'triangle' it has to be with these 3. I don't want to be unfair on Rose (Rian already did enough of that...) but she simply isn't involved with this bigger story, where Finn definitely is, especially having personally fought Kylo himself, and caring more about Rey than anyone else in this world.

Finn/Rey ARE the natural couple. What I feel we will see in IX is Finn hating that Rey is still drawn to Kylo, and not only because of all the bad stuff Kylo has done, but also because he is in love with Rey and doesn't want her to go to Ben. This is absolutely the right choice for Finn's character. However, we must see Finn and Rey interact a LOT more in this movie, and have just as much dialogue together as in TFA. This is playing to this ST cast's strengths. I know we're not talking about Rose.... but I would place her in the Poe role for IX, with Poe taking up Leia's mantle. It all makes perfect sense!!