First hints as to Indy IV's 'sacred object'

Discussion in 'Lucasfilm Ltd. In-Depth Discussion' started by jp-30, Jan 9, 2007.

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  1. jp-30 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Dec 14, 2000
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    According to a report on theraider.net

    Before you ask; McGuffin. The objects like the Ark, Sankara Stones, Holy Grail etc.

    I wonder, given Lucas's comments, that maybe it's sensitive due to being Middle Eastern? In Iraq (Persia) even?

    Not that that's too removed from the other religous artifacts from Indy 1 & 3. Still, I wonder what this means "we'll still use that area of the supernatural to deal with it"

    Anyone got other theories?



  2. Clonuscant Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 6, 2005
    star 1
    The McG doesn't necessarily have to be an object, it could be a place. I personally hope it's a place (just for the record, ToD wasn't a McGuffin, just the centerpiece setting).

    As for Biblical objects... the "Spear of Destiny" and "Shroud of Turin" are always thrown around and I'll puke if it turns out to be either- too repetitive after a Jesus-related item we've gotten already (Grail).

    "...take out the offending parts..." Hmmm. "too 'connected'", "afraid of what the critics would think"....

    Noah's Ark is one possibility but I don't how that could initially inspire skepticism (it would be a stale McG nonetheless, IMO). As for places that pass through my mind: Shangri-La, Babylon (Hanging Gardens), El-dorado, Atlantis, LeMuria, and Babel. I really like the thought of the Tower of Babel. I can also see how it would be touchy.

    Or maybe we should look away from the Bible and to the Quran? What are some famous Islamic sacred objects/places? Anybody reading this thread who's read the Quran? I have it, but have only perused it on occassion.
  3. Darth-Lando Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 2002
    star 6
    My guess: Tower of Babel

    Isn't that supposed to be in or around Baghdad?
  4. dudalb Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 14, 2001
    star 3
    When it leaks out...as it will....where they are going to be filming we will know more.
  5. Darrkwolff Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 15, 2004
    star 5
    And spark an even bigger jihad against America?

    No thanks. I'd just as soon stay away from anything related to Islam, the Quran, et al. I like how you would like to see the film go in another direction as far as what Indy would be getting involved with, but I don't think anything Muslim-related should be it.

    Just my opinion. ;)
  6. Clonuscant Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 6, 2005
    star 1
    But we're not discussing our thoughts and opinions on the McGuffin of Lucas and Co.'s choice, or what we think it should be. We're discussing what we think it's going to be, in reality, which calls for objectiveness.
  7. DarthLowBudget Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2004
    star 5
    I've thought about some of the things brought up in this thread already, and it would be sweet if it were a place. El Dorado, Shangri La, Valley of Life, Garden of Eden, etc.

    I am eagerly looking forward to see what it turns out to be.
  8. FlareStorm Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 13, 2000
    star 6
    Spear of Destiny - Was in Constantine and that made-for-TV movie "The Librarian" Also had a cameo in Passion of the Christ. Its "connected" that way, as in used quite a few times. However the Nazis where all after that (I think they had it) so there's some precedence.

    Noah's Ark - Film about Armenian genocide that wasn't at all in the US, called Ararat. Won some awards. Plus global warming, the earth is looking forward to mass flooding. "Connection" there.

    Babel/Babylon - As I understand it, the original site of the Tower of Babel was the ancient beginnings of Babylon, which is just outside modern Baghdad. Defiantly "connected."

    King Solomon's Mines - Just used in The Librarian 2.

    How about something with the Mayans? With the 2012 end of the world stuff, speculation is just going to increase and maybe they don't want to be connected with that.

    I'm just speculating on the "Unfortunately, it was a little too 'connected' for the others."

  9. Fluke_Groundrunner Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 1, 2001
    star 4
    I don't know if the objects in the Indy films should really qualify as MacGuffins, because you know that Indy is going to find it.

    Also, if others have not wanted to use what George suggested, could it be something stupid?
  10. Clonuscant Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 6, 2005
    star 1
    Also, if others have not wanted to use what George suggested, could it be something stupid?

    Not at all, if anything, it's great. George is the idea guy, remember? (and that's the role he should be constricted to :p).

  11. jp-30 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Dec 14, 2000
    star 9
    Maybe it's the secret Elephant Graveyard?



    :p


    Actually, one would assume it's the Russians that Indy is up against this time (set in the 1950s) - would that give any clue?

    Hard to imagine the Commies going after a biblical artifact.
  12. Clonuscant Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 6, 2005
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    I think the question is... would Stalin and/or Mao go after a Biblical artifact or just any artifact of cultural significance? Would getting any of these artifacts or finding any of these places be in their political and/or militaristic interests?

    OR... perhaps we're not thinking right. Maybe they're not going after an artifact(s) or place(s) to claim it/them but DESTROY it/them.

  13. Gobi-1 Manager Emeritus

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    Dec 22, 2002
    star 5
    I like the idea of the Commies searching for "The McGuffin" only to destroy it. Reminds me of the Taliban when they were destroying ancient non-islamic religious sculptures prior to 9/11.

    Why the Taliban are destroying Buddhas - March 22, 2001

    Indy's quest would be about preserving the past which could also work as a metaphor about Indy's own mortality and leaving a legacy behind. Would be a fascinating although potentially controversial angle for Indiana Jones. Maybe they should take a page from James Bond and make the villains rogue communists who are acting on their own without the approval of Moscow.
  14. jp-30 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Dec 14, 2000
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    You don't think he would be silly enough to go 'extra-terrestrial' on us, would he? One of the early drafts was about UFOs, and they were the big craze in the 1950s.
  15. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

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    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    That would be cool, actually. Indy vs. the Black Oil. :p
  16. DARTH_MCMAUL Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 2005
    My knee-jerk reaction to "connected" was that it was connected to another Lucas franchise. Like maybe Indy has to beat the Russians and the Red Chinese to the long lost location of a derelict, saucer-shaped spacecraft from a galaxy far, far away. There was a cheesy B-movie from the '50s called The Bamboo Saucer where an adveturer leads an expedition into the PRC to beat the Russians to the site of a crashed UFO. Could be somthing like that?

    Don't roll your eyes! E.T. did it!
  17. Fluke_Groundrunner Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 1, 2001
    star 4
    Indian Jones and the Search for Midi-chlorians

    Could it be a film releated mystery? Something that Steven and Harrison would be conencted to because it's movie related? It doesn't even have to be something real either. I am doubting they would feel too connected to a religious object considering the previous Indy plots.
  18. Obi-Chron Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 11, 2003
    star 4
    Indeed, a McGuffin does not have to be a religious device. In fact, it usually unimportant to the film, per this definition on WIKIPEDIA .

    A MacGuffin (sometimes McGuffin or Maguffin) is a plot device that motivates the characters and advances the story, but has little other relevance to the story.

    The director and producer Alfred Hitchcock popularized both the term "MacGuffin" and the technique. According to the Oxford English Dictionary, Hitchcock explained the term in a 1939 lecture at Columbia University: "[W]e have a name in the studio, and we call it the 'MacGuffin.' It is the mechanical element that usually crops up in any story. In crook stories it is always the necklace and in spy stories it is always the papers."

    The element that distinguishes a MacGuffin from other types of plot devices is that it is not important what object the MacGuffin specifically is. Anything that serves as a motivation will do. A true MacGuffin is essentially interchangeable. Its importance will generally be accepted completely by the story's characters, with minimal explanation. From the audience's perspective, the MacGuffin is not the point of the story.
  19. Fluke_Groundrunner Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 1, 2001
    star 4
    I guess the specific definition of MacGuffin is in the mind of the beholder. Personally, I think it should be something fictional, completely made up within the world of the movie. That way it's completely interchangeable. Also, the less the audience knows about it, the better, as to not dwell specifically on that thing.

    With the Arc of the Covenant and the Holy Grail, we already know at least a little but about those items, because they are real things. The Grail is not interchangeable because it is used to heal Indy's father.

    That's just my opinion. The MacGuffin definition can certainly be made larger to include many number of things, and that is fine
  20. FlareStorm Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 13, 2000
    star 6
    Thats a fun idea, if they did it right (i.e., he fails finding anything) But the journey during the time and seeing the craze would be cool to see.
  21. DarthLowBudget Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2004
    star 5
    Believe me if you read the UFO script you would be sinigng another tune about it. I think it would be very difficult to get it to work in the context of Indy, it just doesn't sound Indy-ish to me.
  22. solojones Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2000
    star 9
    No, I think that sounds like a bad idea. I really hope it's not extra-terrestrial.

    It would be really nice for the item/place to be thematically connected to the overall themes of the story (which, I would presume, has something to do with the fact that Indy's old). Too bad they already did the Holy Grail.


    -sj loves kevin spacey
  23. jp-30 Manager Emeritus

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    Dec 14, 2000
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    UFOs don't necessarily have to be extra-terrestrial in origin.

  24. DarthLowBudget Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2004
    star 5
    Then we'd be doing a rehash of Indiana Jones and the Sky Pirates by Martin Cadin.
  25. jp-30 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Dec 14, 2000
    star 9
    So, some Indy EU novel's been written about strange flying objects. Don't see the problem myself if similar material is used in the movie.
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