First hints as to Indy IV's 'sacred object'

Discussion in 'Lucasfilm Ltd. In-Depth Discussion' started by jp-30, Jan 9, 2007.

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  1. DarthLowBudget Force Ghost

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    Jan 17, 2004
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    My problem is it would just seem like they ran out of ideas.
  2. Gobi-1 Manager Emeritus

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    Dec 22, 2002
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    Some things that come to mind include Ezechiel's Wheel from the Bible, the wings of Icarus and the flying machines designed by Leonardo Di Vinci. However anything involving Di Vinci, and Jesus for that matter, would feel too much like a rehash of the Di Vinci Code.
  3. Layren Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2003
    star 5
    I remember reading an article ages ago about them possibly searching for King Arthur's Excalibur. I think that would be really neat to see, IMHO. I don't have a link to the article handy though, I'd have to dig to find it again. It was something I came across in passing.
  4. Ulfor-Bombaasa Jedi Knight

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    Mar 17, 2006
    star 3
    The Garden of Eden certainly would tie in with the other movies, and it also would have raised some concern about the location being in modern day Iraq. An interesting twist would be a play on the controversy about the death of Hitler at the end of WW II. The McGuffin could be that another body was found and buried by the allies and that Hitler escaped and ultimately tried to find the Garden of Eden. It could work.
  5. jp-30 Manager Emeritus

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    Garden of Eden sounds good, except it would be stretching it to have a Nazi/Hitler subplot set in the 1950s
  6. sithlard Jedi Knight

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    I would like to see the Garden of Eden in the story. You could have the swinging sword that guards the entrance to the garden, as well as the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. The tree of the knowledge of good and evil (from what I gather) would not have an effect since we're already cursed from when Adam and Eve ate from it. But the tree of life would bring eternal life, I think. Fountain of Youth story, perhaps? Even without the garden, they can still do the fountain of youth in some other way.

    So the plot would be that perhaps some ancient civilization knew the location, but concealed it within a city. Secret passageways and booby-traps would be a part of the journey to find the lost garden of eden.
  7. Gobi-1 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Dec 22, 2002
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    I think Indy's age will be a major issue dealt within the film and the adventure that Indy goes on should be a metaphor about Indy and where he is at this point in his life. The idea of Indy searching for Excalibur has been tossed around for years and I was just thinking about how it could be used. I think I've approached it from a new angle.

    The search would not just be for King Arthur's sword but for King Arthur himself. According to the legend of King Arthur he doesn't actually die. Mortally wounded Arthur is taken by boat to Avalon where his wounds would heal in time. If England was every to be in grave danger Arthur would someday return. On the tomb of Arthur is inscribed the words "Here Lies Arthur The Once and Future King"

    The Arthur legend provides many things that would be terrific in a film, Excalibur, Camelot, Avalon, Stonehenge, Merlin, and the Round Table just to name a few. Also the Arthur legend is connected to the Holy Grail from The Last Crusade which is what George Lucas may have been alluding too. Finding King Arthur alive and well at the end of the film would be fantastic especially if you could get a screen legend to play him. I suggest Christopher Lee.

    Indiana Jones finding King Arthur could be a great story to use to show Indy facing his own mortality. Maybe Henry Sr. could be ill or even dying and he goes with Arthur back to Avalon. Would certainly make for a moving scene and a fitting tribute to Sean Connery's career if he really does retire from screen acting.
  8. DarthLowBudget Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2004
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    That's a story I would be interested in seeing. Of course, there would be some issues to work out with the time period, because at that point England would be well out of trouble (and some might wonder why he didn't show up to save everyone during WW2.) but it would be a cool adventure.
  9. jp-30 Manager Emeritus

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    Dec 14, 2000
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    Well, the cold war may well be beginning. The nuclear thread may be a decent excuse.

    Though now this is starting to sound very James Bond.
  10. Obi-Chron Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 11, 2003
    star 4
    Recall in Temple of Doom that the sacred stones 'fell from the sky.' They had an extraterrestrial origin, natural or otherwise. That was a subtext to the plot.

    Similarly, many biblical stories (such as Ezekiel, Sodom and Gamorrah) have an interesting accounting that some have stated indicates extra-terrestrial presence or even direct involvement.

    Tying a sacred ancient object to a possible ancient extra-terrestrial event (with modern implications) could be done justice by SS and GL.

    And RE; The MacGuffin -- a term originated by Alfred Hitchcock, HERE'S another site that states it is an 'irrelevant plot device' -- from Hitchcock himself. So the MacGuffin GL speaks of is not a sacred object!
  11. jp-30 Manager Emeritus

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    Or he may just be using the term slighty-incorrectly. I have absolutely no doubt when he talks of the IJ4 McGuffin he is referring to the object such as the Ark, Snakara Stones, Holy Grail as seen in the other movies. He even mentions how the 'supernatural' element will have to be handled.

    'We'll have to go back to that original McGuffin and take out the offending parts of it and we'll still use that area of the supernatural to deal with it.'
  12. Ulfor-Bombaasa Jedi Knight

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    Mar 17, 2006
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    Not at all! Did you ever see the movie, The Boys From Brazil? That movie dealt with former Nazi leaders hiding out in Brazil and Argentina in the late 70's and early 80's running a secret program of raising young Hitler clones around the world.
  13. jp-30 Manager Emeritus

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    My point was that Raiders & Crusade were Nazi based, the 1950s where the new movie will probably be set would have the American government more worried about the Commies than a few Nazi stragglers hanging out in South America. It would seem too contrived (to me) to have a Nazi contingent as the main enemies in the movie.
  14. Ulfor-Bombaasa Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
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    I'm just saying that my "Garden of Eden/Fight against Hitler" guess at the plot (and that's all it is - a sheer guess) would tie in with two of the prior movies in that it would deal with an object or place based in the Bible and also deal with Indy fighting the Nazis. And I think it would be a cool Indy story even if it isn't the subject of the next movie - especially if Indy were to meet up with Hitler after he'd already been to the Garden and was now younger and stronger.
  15. Obi-Chron Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 11, 2003
    star 4
    GL is a student of the art -- he does not toss film terminology around lightly.

    The openings of all three Indy films had absolutely zero to do with the 'sacred object' of those films:
    - The golden monkey in 'ROLA'
    - The diamond in 'TOD'
    - The Cross of Cortez in 'TLC'

    GL knows precisely what a MacGuffin is (and is 'not'). It is not a sacred object!
  16. DarthLowBudget Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2004
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    No.

    MacGuffin is a very loose term, it does not really have such a precise terminology. In this case it is being used to mean the thing our hero is after.

    Lucas has referred to the Ark, the Shankara Stones and the Holy Grail as MacGuffins in the past.
  17. HanEllis Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jun 6, 2006
    When Darbont was going to write the script. It was talked about the lost city of atlantis being the macguffin.
  18. DarthLowBudget Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2004
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    Atlantis wasn't ever used as a MacGuffin in any script.

    It was taken by the game Fate of Atlantis.
  19. Gobi-1 Manager Emeritus

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    Dec 22, 2002
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    McGuffin can be used to describe any object or thing that drives the plot of a film. For example the Ark in Raiders, the suitcase in Ronin, the "galaxy" in Men In Black all can be considered McGuffins.

    McGuffin's can be a major or minor part of the story and there can be more then one. In Raiders one needs to find the eye piece for the staff of Ra before you can find the Ark. In The Last Crusade you need Henry's diary before you can find the Holy Grail.

    McGuffin could even apply to a person. Henry could be considered one since a major portion of the Last Crusade is devoted to finding him.



  20. Obi-Chron Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 11, 2003
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    To Gobi-1 you listen -- and the late Alfred Hitchcock, who originated the term -- and to every reputable film artist afterward who used it with that specific intent of Hitchcock's definition in mind!
  21. DarthLowBudget Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2004
    star 5
    Just did some checking.

    The Excalibur angle came from some rumours that started after some fans wrote their own script called Indiana Jones and the Sword of Arthur.

    It's currently hosted at theraider.net.
  22. jp-30 Manager Emeritus

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    I think Gobi-1 is arguing against your strict definition of the term, but I will listen to him, as always.
  23. FlareStorm Force Ghost

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    Nov 13, 2000
    star 6
    I see the term in RPGs a lot. Its presented as a thing that you use as a springboard to build a story around
  24. Obi-Chron Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 11, 2003
    star 4
    This is approaching 'ground truth' for the term -- "a plot device [or springboard] that motivates the characters and advances the story, but has little other relevance to the story."

    Indeed! I do prefer 'classic interpretations' of commonly used terms. Yet Gobi-1's definition is closer to the actual definition than some others! It's a nice King Solomon solution! [face_peace]

  25. dudalb Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 14, 2001
    star 3
    It is amazing how many people "know for a fact" that Atlantis will be the McGuffin with the only evidence being that video game. Actually,that is one of the reasons I think that Atlantis will NOT be the McGuffin;it looks as if Lucas and company were running out of ideas.
    I have a feeling the McGuffin will be something really out of left field. The problem with the ideas suggested here is they are too obvious.
    And Excalibur is a little too close to the Holy Grail.
    Anything to do with Da Vinci is out also because it looks as if it was cashing in on the Da Vinci Code,although I would not be surprised to see them poke fun at the DVC is some way since the Indy films have always poked fun at other movies.
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