First hints as to Indy IV's 'sacred object'

Discussion in 'Lucasfilm Ltd. In-Depth Discussion' started by jp-30, Jan 9, 2007.

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  1. DarthLowBudget Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2004
    star 5
    I don't think anybody think's it's going to be Atlantis.
  2. Obi-Chron Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 11, 2003
    star 4
    Agree on Atlantis likely not being the McGuffin, primarily due to the wording of this part of Lucas' quote:

    "I discovered a McGuffin. I told the guys about it and they were a little dubious about it, but it's the best one we've ever found. ... Unfortunately, it was a little too 'connected' for the others . . ."

    George goes on to say they used the McGuffin, but in a 'reworked' state to "take out the offending parts," whatever that means.

    On possibility is that "connected" hints at some relationship to other movies and their McGuffins:

    - Golden Monkey, Diamonds and the Cross of Cortez were pivotal McGuffins to the openings of the previous three.
    - Indy escapes in the opening of Ep. I in an aircraft, Ep. II in a train, and Ep. III first in a car and then in an aircraft (again).
    - Indy loses his precious item every time!

    Another possiblity is that the McGuffin is in some way 'connected' to the movie makers themselves via Fx, Sci-Fi, filmography, etc. This is an interesting take on the Lucas quote, no?

    Atlantis fits into neither alternative. Anyone else care to play 'Clue?'

    EDITS: for clarity

    Just theories, nothing more. Flame away.
  3. jp-30 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Dec 14, 2000
    star 9
    I think he means 'connected' to current day world events.
  4. Obi-Chron Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 11, 2003
    star 4
    Hmmm! interesting idea! [face_idea]

    It's so hard to read anything between the lines regarding what Lucas says in public, especially since what he says changes over time. But his use of the word 'connected' is the best clue we have so far -- whatever the McGuffin is 'connected' to?

    One thing is clear -- Lucas held out until he got what he wanted.
  5. Ulfor-Bombaasa Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 17, 2006
    star 3
    The Garden of Eden located in Iraq certainly would be out of left field especially if Indy had to go there to track down Adolf Hitler who obviously would have escaped the allies. The idea would be that if Hitler eats from the Tree of Life, he would not be able to be destroyed and could once again try to take over the world. What if Indy ultimately has to choose between eternal life for himself and taking out Hitler? This is just my guess, but it would be a cool storyline.
  6. jp-30 Manager Emeritus

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    I can't imagine a storyline involving Hitler set in the 1950s. In fact I would be terribly disappointed if that were to happen.

  7. rhonderoo Former Head Admin

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    Aug 7, 2002
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    Set in the fifties, it will probably be about the cold war. Did Nostradamus predict anything about the Cold War?
  8. Ulfor-Bombaasa Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 17, 2006
    star 3
    I'm sticking with my theoretical storyline.
  9. jp-30 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Dec 14, 2000
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    Indiana Jones is now in the American Southwest on a traditional archaeological dig looking for potsherds and generally bored. Out of the blue, an old flame appears. She tells Indy that she is now with the CIA and working against Communist Russia. She asks Indy help her thwart the Russians in obtaining pieces of an ancient machine that, if rebuilt, could reach through space and time to new dimensions. Apparently, this machine was originally housed within the fabled Tower of Babel, but was scattered across the world in pieces.


    That is the plot of the video game "Indiana Jones & The Infernal Machine".

    Hmmmmmm.
  10. DarthLowBudget Force Ghost

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    star 5
  11. jp-30 Manager Emeritus

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  12. FlareStorm Force Ghost

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    How does it turn out? Specifically, how do the pieces get all over the world, especially to America?
  13. DarthLowBudget Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2004
    star 5
    Eh, the game ends a little dissappointingly, it gets all sci fi and there'a an alternate dimension and some wierd technology stuff Indy has to use.
  14. Obi-Chron Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 11, 2003
    star 4
    Interesting ideas, some that I'd like to see. I recall playing an early Mac version of the Atlantis game back in 1998. Atlantis is such a great topic for Indy -- it is as much of a mystery as he is. The two are perfect for each other.

    But paraphrasing Lucas on his Star Wars franchise, he concerns himself with the movies -- period. The books, comics, cartoons and games are "another universe" that he doesn't get involved with all that much.

    So if we take the Star Wars universe using films and film adapted novels as canon, everything else is EU. While it is not impossible, I sincerely doubt that Lucas would allow one of his film works to spin off of a video game -- the Indy version of EU.

    I think Lucas feels that he is 'above' that sort of stuff. He prides his craft far too much to do that, as is witnessed by the approval of the Indy IV script taking over 4 years to gain his personal stamp of approval! He is a stickler for detail, and for doing it 'his' way, not some game programmer's way.

    That said, many possible options are admittedly still on the table through Lucas' choice of words " . . . . too connected for the others."
  15. DarthLowBudget Force Ghost

    Member Since:
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    star 5
    Yeah, hopefully the years spent in delevopment mean the script is really good.
  16. Gobi-1 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Dec 22, 2002
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    Well we have to remember that the basic idea or plot for Indy 4 has probably remained the same for all these years. They just never could get a script wrapped around the idea that pleased all three until now.

    Atleast that's what I think.
  17. jp-30 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
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    But as you say, he has no interest in what goes on in EU. So it's entirely possible the movie may well traverse some of the same basic ideas as seen in videogames or novels, even if entirely unintentionally.

    My point is, don't discard a plot idea simply because it's appeared in Indy EU, because it's unlikely Lucas is any more than peripherally aware of it.

    Also notice the scriptwriter's comments; As much as he is a fan of Indy lore, Koepp says it?s essential to discard that point of view when tapping out further adventures. "You can?t write a fan script," he insists. "You have to pretend that this movie exists without the other one(s)."

    That same equally true of all the Indy spinoff stuff...
  18. Ulfor-Bombaasa Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 17, 2006
    star 3
    I don't believe there is any chance that Indy 4 will have anything to do with what has previously come out in novels or video games - even if it is something that GL was "peripherally aware" of. It will be an entirely new story.
  19. DarthLowBudget Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2004
    star 5
    Actually, the basic plot has changed greatly over the years, according to my own little research into the matter. It started as alien technology, then shifted to a couple other things, then for a short while it was the garden of eden, and now it's anybody's guess.
  20. Gobi-1 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
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    Really? Given this statement from Lucas:

    "I discovered a McGuffin. I told the guys about it and they were a little dubious about it, but it's the best one we've ever found. ... Unfortunately, it was a little too 'connected' for the others. They were afraid of what the critics would think. They said, 'Can't we do it with a different McGuffin? Can't we do this?' and I said 'No.' So we pottered around with that for a couple of years. And then Harrison really wanted to do it and Steve said, 'Okay.' I said, 'We'll have to go back to that original McGuffin and take out the offending parts of it and we'll still use that area of the supernatural to deal with it.'"

    They've gone back to the original idea. They did try out other ideas but it looks like Lucas really wanted to use that McGuffin and they finally got a script using that object that Harrison and Steven liked. I can remember Rick McCallum mentioning the "brilliant idea", his words, Lucas had for Indy 4 several years agon in Star Wars Insider so I wonder if that's the idea they're finally using.
  21. Obi-Chron Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 11, 2003
    star 4
    So following this idea train:

    and then . . .

    The Lucas quote -- particularly the part that says " . . . .Unfortunately, it was a little too 'connected' for the others."

    Combinded with " . . . it started as alien technology."

    and then "They've gone back to the original idea!"

    Might just possibly point the way ahead if all the above quotes and hunches are on-target.
  22. Gobi-1 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Dec 22, 2002
    star 5
    'We'll have to go back to that original McGuffin and take out the offending parts of it and we'll still use that area of the supernatural to deal with it.'"

    I think Lucas' use of the word "supernatural" rules out an alien artifact. When I think of the supernatural I think of magic, mystical objects and the past. With something alien I think of science, technology and the future.

    That?s not to say we couldn't be dealing with something that is here on earth but nobody knows where it came from or that area of speculation where people believe aliens built the pyramids and Stonehenge, that sort of thing.

  23. DarthLowBudget Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2004
    star 5
    Yeah, for all we know, the one he's gone back to is from a script Boam (Indy3 screenwriter) was working on in the very early 90's. The alien plot couldve been in response to trying to tackle a noncontrpversial subject. Aliens seems to be very uncontroversial, and therefor not in keeping with his statement.
  24. Obi-Chron Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 11, 2003
    star 4
    Well, if we follow Alfred Hitchcock's letter of the definition for McGuffin, then it is a plot device non-related to the main story line. So whatever the McGuffin is, it won't be involved with the main theme, just an introduction to it. The McGuffin will merely introduce the "area of the supernatural" and then the characters will "deal with it."

  25. jp-30 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Dec 14, 2000
    star 9
    From the context etc, I think it's safe to say Lucas was talking about the central object of the film that Indy's is on a quest to find, a la the Ark, Sankara Stones or Holy Grail.
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