ST First Order's Strength

No I checked that - He was just the captain of that ship...

 

Groans... even the 'Captain' of a ship with a crew of 215,000 should rank an Admiral.

 

Jawa H Christ, 25% of the Imperial fleet ran and no one bothered to look or prepare?

How can you hide 25% of the fleet that had control of everything?

Spin what in another way?

You need to read what you quote and dont just look it a certain numbers that work for you.

The article states that the military had 340K at the start and by the end when everyone went home they had 1.5 mil.
The military grew. And the end of the article it says that those numbers were too little. While other person that it was enough for the occupation of both germany and Japan in case something happened.

Which is something the NR should've done. They should've been keeping an eye on the Imperial remnants instead of letting 25% of what was left run and disappear.

This new trilogy needs a Rogue One movie explaining this because what we got on screen doesnt make sense.

 

The issue was victors not demilitarizing. The article debunks your claim. Your playing with the numbers is disingenuous. And the New Republic has a larger military than its predecessor prior to the creation of the Grand Army and its corresponding Navy.

 

The only playing here is you acting like my point was one word, it wasnt.

Your own link proves my point.

 

You mean one sentence—your thesis statement. It’s amazing how bad writers blame the reader. My average grade I gave out at a private university was C-, which meant they had to repeat the course. Now this isn’t freshman English comp, but even so there’s a certain standard for rational discussion and you’re not meeting it. Goodbye, this was a waste of time.

 

Congratulations on being better at grammatical construction.

You're missing the larger point. Yes, both sides of a conflict have to have some degree of demobilization when they're in a situation of total war. That's not at all surprising. The original commentator was noting that relatively, the conquered party is usually forced to demobilize to a greater extent. We see this throughout history. The Philistines literally forbade the Israelites from having blacksmiths, lest they have they have a way to forge weapons. The settlements for World War I were so punitive that they helped push Europe towards a repeat. Japan is not allowed to have a military at all, even a half century after the end of hostilities.

The original point was quite correct in trying to note how historically unusual it is for a victorious power to allow its recent a bitter rival to reconstitute its whole military and surpass their own military strength entirely unchallenged. Or we can keep quibbling over which person is the superior grammarian.

 

my original post wasnt one word, like you were acting it was, and it wanst one sentence, or a thesis. The whole post explains what i said, if you wanted me to elaborate on it you should've asked.

Yeah, that's the point.
Like i said above, if they point wasnt understood they could've asked for me to elaborate more.

 

Who said anything about grammar? He made an unsubstantiated claim and then cherry picked the data.

Where do you get allowing the enemy to reconstitute their whole military unchallenged? The Imperials’ numbers were reduced prior to the Galactic Concordance. Not all Imperials made it to the Unknown Regions. And the Republic didn’t know of Sloane, Hux, or Nashrider plotting to rebuild the Empire. Back in the Core and Inner Rim demilitarization of the Empire was implemented. And the Imperial Remnant that wanted to rebuild a newer, leaner Empire was going to have to work on quality over quantity.

And even if the NR did demilitarize 30 years prior, that didn’t mean they necessarily hadn't increased in size since then. Not to mention you have local forces as you did pre-Clone Wars. It is possible rhe NR military is bigger than the FO military prior to Hosnian Prime getting nuked, or is there canonical evidence to the contrary?

 

According to the visual dictionary,

'Despite its idealistic intentions (doormats, bootlickers, pacifistic knobs, etc.), the NR never took root on a scale comparable to the Old Republic. Now the Senate and fleet are gone, along with Rep's top military commanders, and it seems unlikely that the remaining systems will be able to hold together, let alone hold off the FO.'

Also it states the FO Fleet is unopposed since the NR was vaporized by SKB. Along with the T-85 X-Wings....

It's completely asinine, but this is the hand we've been dealt.....All because we needed to be brought back to a point where practical effects and less CGI could be used. Ugh....

 

I am pretty sure TFA and TLJ both used a similar amount of CGI as the prequels

 

They're too slavishly attached to getting us back to the "Rebels versus Empire" dynamic from the Original Trilogy, and that to me is one of the biggest failings of the new movies. They aren't allowing themselves to break out into something truly new. Imagine what the art department could have done with a dozen fragmented post-Empire factions set 30 years after RotJ. Some still carrying the banner of their sectors, their equipment diverging to form a unique palette of "regional Imperials."

 

@Jedi Knight Fett
Um, no. Just. No. they most certainly did not. If you disagree I suggest you go back and watch all three of the PTs. In fact, I feel that there's more CGI in the TPM than both those films combined.

The ST just feels, to me, like an extension of the OT or something I could just watch in Rebels; I understand the 'battle not being won' and an 'old evil returning' but c'mon.....These movies are basically rendering the Rebels' sacrifices invalid. I can't even look at Mothma anymore without wanting to either spit in her face or deck her.

 

I was talking about visual effects Phantom Menace had a total of 1,950 while TFA had just under 2,000

 

....? How the hell is that possible? Part of JJ's bit for the TFA was trying to make sure he relied mostly on practical effects and kept the CGI to a minimum.

The only CGI characters were Maz and Snoke, and MAYBE Unkar Plutt. There were DEFINITELY more Battle Droids and Gungans than SKB or Takodana's battles. Granted Jakku and SKB had their moments, but only barely felt more original than what was previously seen, and Hosnian Prime doesn't count much for me, it kind of felt sloppy, in fact.

I could go on and on, but part of the reason I feel they're going this route is because they feel it allows them to rely more on practical effects since most of the CGI from the PT could not be replicated for the real world. And considering SW is a fantasy that is a damn shame and a ridiculous reason to complain about the PTs.

 

As far as i know, Battlefront 2 is considered canon. Recently the TLJ DLC came out, in one of those cutscenes;

Spoiler

The main resistance characters (Shriv Suurgav, Iden Versio and her daughter Zay) board an FO Star Destroyer and manage to download a manifest explaining Project Resurrection (kidnapping/indoctrinating children to be raised as stormtroopers, which greatly increased their numbers) and the amount of capital ships under their command (which are shown spread out on a map). According to Iden (a former Imperial SpecOps squad commander) "enough to reclaim control over the entire galaxy."

They seem to have been far better prepared for a conflict than their New Republic counterpart, at the very least. From what i can gather, most if not all NR worlds are left undefended.

 

Hah. And simply because the NR had more of a fleet and defense force than the Old Republic did before the Clone Wars isn't saying much at all considering it relied mostly on a 10,000 strong army of Jedi which was already getting stretched thin.

No, the NR made a horrible mistake when they demilitarized. They did that under the assumption things could go back to the way things were, but that was without keeping in mind there were Jedi to fight and die for them back then.

Now, after seeing their so-called allies' response on Crait, it makes me wonder if any resistance is worth it, if there are only going to be a few to rise up against the many.

 

The fact that we need a video game (one that gave EA and Disney a headache for its naked greed) to explain why all of a sudden the First Order is now uber powerful and the Resistance is so puny is just sad. The films themselves should explain it, not EU stuff that I may or may not want to buy.

 

This is the only thing really worth saying about the entire Sequel Trilogy. It's a fictional story. They can write that literally whatever they want happened. Even if there is no explanation now, they can come up with one in later years. The point was never that there wasn't an in-universe explanation of some kind offered in some piece of third-tier merchandise.

It's that those plot developments are stupid. Besides being implausible, they're nakedly geared at recreating the exact same story dynamics we've already seen before rather than let consequences build naturally.

 

In the Lit Forum, where there’s rational discussion, according to the TFA VD, the entire fleet wasn’t vaporized. There were ships deployed elsewhere. Plus we got planetary defense forces.

And practical effect. I love GL. But he overplayed his technological innovation and there was a backlash. JJ was wise and downplayed the CGI. So JJ is DP?



https://www.google.co.jp/amp/www.ou...ns-had-more-cgi-than-the-phantom-menace-AMPED

 

Could you share with us from your very rational discussion why we should care about the fate of one capital ship worth of resistance fighters if all these planetary defense forces are wholly intact and substantial portions of the Republican fleet are still at large? Weren't they always gong to be more important in fighting the First Order anyway?

 

Nice baiting.

Rational discussion involves reasoning and evidence. You might want to visit the State of the Galaxy thread in the Lit Forum.

You have problems with non sequitors, false assumptions, and lack of evidence. And you make claims that are too strong for you to support. First, you assert the New Republic allowed an enemy the Imperial Forces to “wholly reconstitute and surpass their own military strength entirely unchallenged.” The evidence is to the contrary.

And while the above spoiler shows they have rebuilt, it doesn’t imply they’re at Endor numbers or even NR numbers. They needn’t as their capital ships are bigger and more technologically advanced, as are the Tie fighters. The puny contemporary US Navy could destroy the US Navy of WW II. And it seems these Stormtroopers wouldn’t lose to Ewoks.

Now, do we know the planetary forces are wholly intact? Maybe not as Snoke’s legions may be taking them on. And did I say that they were wholly intact? It appears that not all of the Fleet was destroyed at Hosnian Prime. What percent constitutes substantial, a claim I didnt make? If we want to be pedantic, decimate is 10% destroyed. But we don’t know, nor did I claim to have such knowledge.

Leia believes there’s help in the Outer Rim. I doubt they’re Kanjiklub. Maybe there’s no response because the potential helpers are engaged or in retreat.

Well, TFA had a lot of CGI, 2100 vs TPM at 1900 as the second link I posted above shows. And TPM had more practical models than the OT combined as the first link shows.

 

I didn't say they reconstituted their numbers. I said they reconstituted to their "strength." In all the ways you just outlined.

You also seem to be missing my larger point--again. If there are other forces, be they the New Republic or Planetary Defense forces, they no doubt have more than one capital ship between them. Which makes the fate of Leia's particular group sort of superfluous. Yet, instead of acknowledging this, we see the following:

1. Leia only making reference to appeals to personal friends, rather than the various military units ( Republican forces on deployment, Planetary defense forces) that according to your own admission probably should exist.

2. Kylo Ren insisting that destroying the few hundred Resistance members will end all meaningful opposition to the First Order in the galaxy.

3. Leia literally claiming that all hope is gone if her faction loses

4. Poe turning to Maz for code breakers without giving any consideration to professional cryptologists employed by the New Republic

None of those things should happen if we were supposed to understand a larger tapestry of opposition to the First Order. Let alone all of them. Instead, to artificially raise the stakes and recreate the OT, they tried to signal as much as possible to viewers that the Resistance was literally the only group capable of facing down the Empire.

 

Does it say how big? Cause if the NR is 7 different peoples like i theorized.... why is the FO even bothering with them?

The FO should be taking over territories not allied with the NR then coming for them later.

But i guess this explains why no one came when they put out that call to help, there arent that many planets with them.