Fisto's Disco: The LACWAC Social Thread

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by G-FETT, Jul 1, 2007.

  1. Darth_Zandalor Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 2, 2009
    star 4
    I still feel things went to crap around halfway through Season 2. Using "God did it" as an excuse means that plot holes are filled through literal use of Deus Ex Machina.
    Last edited by Darth_Zandalor, Mar 16, 2013
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  2. 07jonesj Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2010
    star 4
    Did you see the first five episodes of Season 3? The New Caprica storyline was some of the best the series produced!
  3. Darth_Zandalor Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 2, 2009
    star 4
  4. 07jonesj Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2010
    star 4
    Yep. I mean I can state that BSG is one of my favourite pieces of film/tv media I've ever seen. I honestly loved the religious aspects of it, the hard sci-fi, the characters and their motivations (Gaius Baltar may be the best bastard I've ever rooted for).

    I was glad it ended when it did though. Caprica was awesome too and I wish it had got one more season, but it was wrapped up well in the final episode with a flash-forward.

    Blood & Chrome sucked, having pretty much no plot and being a really pointless effort at just remaking a BSG episode.

    I also have the board game, which is kind of awesome. :p

    Having said that, I can see the merits of somebody saying the show jumped the shark. As I said though, loved the religious aspects. Ah yes, opinions...
    Last edited by 07jonesj, Mar 16, 2013
  5. Darth_Zandalor Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 2, 2009
    star 4
    See now, I enjoyed DS9 for it's Religion aspect, not because it declared "God is behind it all" like BSG did, but because it offered a different viewpoint. What the Bajorans saw as gods were seen as aliens by the Federation, and Prophets themselves merely saw things in corporeal and incorporeal forms. Each view is just as valid, and, for the most part, every miracle phenomenon had both a science and religious solution.

    Rather than simply stating "this is what is right and only this", it gives a multiple perspective look at events. I think that is what sets it apart most from other Star Trek and Science fiction in general. It doesn't totally back religion or science, while Roddenberry Trek was pro science all the way, and BSG was pro religion all the way.
  6. 07jonesj Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2010
    star 4
    To be fair, BSG did try to provide scientific reasoning for all of the miraculous events up until the last quarter of Season 4. That's when it goes full religion.

    Obviously in terms of not using bad plot devices such as Deus Ex Machina by handwaving problems DS9 was superior, though BSG gave me more enjoyment. Thing is with pro science vs. pro religion in a sci-fi story is that the pro science stance will always lend itself to having a plot that actually works, whereas pro religion, well the very nature of religion goes against what we consider to make a good story, events go unexplained. Science covers all plot holes, whereas religion leaves them to faith.

    That's why I think Gaius Baltar worked so well. All this religious stuff was happening around him but he was a scientist to the core, and would try to explain everything rationally. Served as an audience surrogate in that capacity.
    Last edited by 07jonesj, Mar 16, 2013
  7. Darth_Zandalor Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 2, 2009
    star 4
    Or the will of the force. Or destiny. Or fate. And yes, any time I want to compare Science fiction shows, I will use DS9 as my barometer of good. It is quite honestly, in my opinion, one of the greatest Science Fiction series of all time. You can take your Babylon V, Firefly, and BSG and shove it compared to DS9. Except for Farscape. Because Farscape was muppets in space the TV series, and it was awesome.

    Here's a thing with BSG that was never addressed outside the miniseries: the nebula where Galactica resupplies is filled with some sort of energy that causes Cylons to malfunction and deteriorate rapidly upon contact. So they avoid the area like the plague, opting instead to just wait outside the cloud.

    Why didn't Adama just take his time finding a way to weaponize the cloud against the Cylons? Get a space vacuum and take samples, find a way to utilize it against the Cylons? The one infiltrator he beat to death with a maglight had nearly collapsed from the exposure. If successful, the humans might have had a superweapon capable of forcing the Cylons to sue for peace.

    However, the episode never addresses the issue again, and at the end, when the other Cylon models arrive at the depot for the big "we are everywhere" reveal, none of them are affected by the cloud. It's shoddy stuff like that that can get under my skin as it piles up. I can let one or two slide, but when you just mount more and more on top, claiming "god did it, stfu", I can't keep turning up my willing suspension of disbelief.
    Last edited by Darth_Zandalor, Mar 16, 2013
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  8. 07jonesj Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2010
    star 4
    I do not believe I ever watched all of Deep Space Nine, and I don't actually remember much of it.

    Would you recommend watching all six seasons through?
  9. Darth_Zandalor Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 2, 2009
    star 4
    All seven seasons. The seeds of greatness are planted near the end of season 1, and it is pretty much uphill from there. The thing it holds over other Trek is that actions have consequences, and character dynamics change over time. People who hated each other grow towards mutual respect, and people who started out as idiots grow the hell up into compelling characters.

    Season 7 kinda drops the ball near the end however, which is a shame. The finale of DS9 was actually a 9 part episode, where everything went completely serialized. I think this did the show a disservice, since it meant that in order to keep the story going, a lot of plot lines never got resolved. But there was so much stuff that needed resolving in the first place, or at least some closure. Season 7 has a ton of fantastic episodes near the beginning, but once that 9 parter comes, a lot of things start to crack.

    And the final battle of the series is literally made up of recycled clips from Season 6's war scenes. Or a planetary liberation involving twelve people.

    But the show also has Quark, and Garak, and Odo. The con man, the tailor made assassin, and the Shapeshifter security guard.
    Last edited by Darth_Zandalor, Mar 16, 2013
  10. TaradosGon Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2003
    star 4
    DS9 is by far my favorite of the Star Trek series. And it almost certainly would never have been approved by Roddenberry, or at the very least it would have been unrecognizable from the show it ended up being.

    Something that leaves me optimistic of Star Wars out of Lucas' hands :p

    It's been a while since I've seen DS9. I think the first couple seasons were when it was really finding its footing, but they were still decent. I don't recall there being any seasons to recommend skipping.

    And even when it comes to lighthearted moments with characters like Weyoun, Garak, Quark and the Nagus, I always felt that the comedic moments/episodes worked.
    Last edited by TaradosGon, Mar 16, 2013
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  11. 07jonesj Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2010
    star 4
    Seven? Guess I can't count that high. :p

    Yeah, I remember it being darker and more serialized than the other series'. I couldn't tell you where the episodes I've seen lie. Oh, and I'm really getting used to let-down endings. I'm beginning to learn that as long as the journey was great, and I feel like the characters have developed in really meaningful ways, I can overlook a more lackluster end to the main plot. :(

    I'll get to buying the set then. 48 discs, that should keep me busy.
  12. TaradosGon Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2003
    star 4
    If you have AmazonPrime or Netflix, I think they have all seasons of all the Star Trek shows.
    Last edited by TaradosGon, Mar 16, 2013
  13. 07jonesj Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2010
    star 4
    But how would I special features.
  14. TaradosGon Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2003
    star 4
    My brother had the S1 set. It's been at least 3 years since I watched it. I can't remember what kind of special features it had.

    And the premiere of DS9 makes heavy reference to the TNG arc Best of Both Worlds, so if you've not seen that, it will be a little confusing (though there is an opening scroll in the DS9 episode to give an overview of what happened).
    Last edited by TaradosGon, Mar 16, 2013
  15. 07jonesj Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2010
    star 4
    I have seen that episode. ;)

    In terms of buying the whole boxset, I was just worried there'd be a point where the series declined severely in quality ('Tis usually the case with shows that reach 6-7 seasons). Both of you have said that's not the case though, so I might as well buy the whole thing and watch it through.
  16. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Hey, @Seerow, how about that Heels victory last night? :D

    Now to see what we can do against Maryland. Still attempting to excise that Duke game from my brain.
  17. Seerow SWTV★Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2011
    star 6
    It was beautiful. Got home in time to see like the last quarter. And hah, Duke puke lost!
    anakinfansince1983 likes this.
  18. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    And WE DID IT AGAIN!!!

    [IMG]


    That, I hiked today and read some of Dark Tide I: Onslaught in the sunshine, and I discovered that The Big Bang Theory has its own wiki. It's a good day.

    On to Miami...
    07jonesj and Seerow like this.
  19. Seerow SWTV★Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2011
    star 6
    -fist bump @anakinfansince1983- Go heels!

    May day involved Target and replacing a crap load of beauty and hygiene supplies some loser stole out of my bathroom and apparently the house. And Jackson Galaxy.
  20. Darth_Zandalor Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 2, 2009
    star 4
    Season six is easily the strongest overall, followed closely by Five and Seven. Season 4 shook things up by bringing back the Klingons as Villains. The first three seasons are pretty good as well, since they set the stage for the big events from thereon in. Of those, Season 1 is probably the weakest, but that was when the show was still being overshadowed by TNG. It played like TNG episodes, but without an established cast. It gained ground near the season's end, with the Cardassian war criminal and the introduction of that biyatch Kai Wynn.

    It's not a good idea to go into DS9 with the mindset for that of TOS or TNG. The show very much plays out like post 911 drama, except replace 911 with the Borg attack. It's a different Federation, far more cautious and more militaristic out of necessity. That's another thing I love, DS9 challenges the Federation's ideas of utopia by showing the dirty work that is sometimes needed to keep paradise clean.

    For recommended episodes, just to give you a taste of what the series is about: Emissary (pilot episode), The Way of the Warrior, Improbable Cause/The Die is Cast, Trials and Tribble-ations, Waltz, The Siege of AR-558, and a personal favorite of mine: In the Cards.

    EDIT. And how the hell could I forget: In the Pale Moonlight.

    Also, for anyone who thinks that Star Trek cannot pull off great space battles, youtube Sacrifice of Angels. Eat your heart out Babylon 5.
    Last edited by Darth_Zandalor, Mar 16, 2013
  21. Darth Ibonek Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 11, 2013
    star 2
    Hide yo kids, hide yo' wife... There's a pervert on the loose! [face_worried]
  22. Seerow SWTV★Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2011
    star 6
    Jackson Galaxy? =b

  23. Jordan1Kenobi Host of EUC Battle of... Games

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 5
    My city just had an earthquake, but I didn't feel it because I was in the car, damn... It wasn't very big so nothing to worry about.
  24. Todd the Jedi Mod and Sitcom Dad of SWTV

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Oct 16, 2008
    star 5
    Hope you, family, friends etc. are alright. Or is this one of those quakes where everyone posts that "fallen over chair" pic? :p We never get earthquakes in New England. Just a seismically boring part of the world.
    Jordan1Kenobi likes this.
  25. Jordan1Kenobi Host of EUC Battle of... Games

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 5
    The fallen chair pic was one of the first things I saw on Facebook after it happened, lol. But Auckland in New Zealand isn't supposed to get earthquakes, so it was a pretty big deal, I'm sure that's all I'll hear on the news tonight.