Flaming Appreciation Threads

I think a provoking post within an appreciation thread can be defined as one that does not encourage discussion of a positive nature -- or negative, depending on whether the thread is based on bashing or gushing. If it does not show that the poster is interested in more information from the fans about the band/book/etc, and if s/he is not asking in a polite manner, then the fans within that thread cannot be blamed for getting annoyed. As Galadriel said, they are bound to act defensively.

However, even if it is understandable that perhaps the fans would see the whole appreciation thread as 'their territory' I think more openness about others feelings and ideas is needed on both sides.

Who's to say that either of those two are the reason for going into a thread? Back to the good ol' Harry Potter Appreciation thread example: if I enter such a thread and simply say "I don't understand the Harry Potter phenomenon, as it's nothing more than a series of children's books" I'm not looking to get attention, nor am I trying to spoil anyone's enjoyment. I'm just trying to have a discussion.


IMO the example Amazing offered is an opinion with a possible basis for debate, and should be treated as such. Sure, the fans may get heated about the statement that 'it's nothing more than a series of children's books', but they would then also be guilty of not taking into consideration the other side's argument. A lot of comments and seemingly hostile statements could be an interesting topic of debate if only both sides are willing to understand why the other side has a particular opinion. If this seems too much expect from a poster -- fan or not -- then perhaps he could be encouraged to make more of an effort to explain his ideas.

If the post is of a 'I hate this, and I hate all its fans. bye now.' nature, then you perhaps can assume that the poster is not willing to discuss his ideas further, and is therefore not welcome.

 

But coming in and saying, essentially, "that sucks and you're all stupid for liking it" (rough translation of "it's nothing more than") serves to do nothing but put the spotlight on that comment and focus all attention on it, even though it's not a particularly deep thought and probably won't generate actual discussion of the series and its popularity (things like, "Do you think that the popularity of Harry Potter and the rise of Voldemort has real world connections based on the war on terror?" or whatnot).

I agree, and that last bit was amusing!

And like I said, it's a "mindless" social thread. Where else could it belong? Want to have a good debate, with substance and all those "intelligent" stuff? Go to those forums I mentioned. Social threads are places where people go to socialize among themselves since they are united by a common purpose.

 

Sure, the fans may get heated about the statement that 'it's nothing more than a series of children's books', but they would then also be guilty of not taking into consideration the other side's argument.

The point is, they're not there to argue, and they're not obliged to defend their liking of something (or dislike of it, in the bashers' case). There should be no need to have an argument about the basic merit of the subject at all--there are enough more pleasant arguments to be had within the fan context ("Is Rowling setting up Harry and Ginny, or is that just a fan thing?"). Those pretty much please all parties involved. It's a fan club/appreciation thread. They're around to socialize and maybe get deep at three o'clock in the morning when only the insomniacs are posting.

I don't think it's a waste of space to have three separate Harry Potter threads, because each one would be doing something different. The fan club thread is for the sort of discussion we've been talking about--fun, light stuff. Friendly. Nice. The bash thread is probably a bit more raucous and can involve a lot of invective and parodies. The discussion thread would be of a more serious nature and people who like it and people who don't could talk about the phenomenon and their differing viewpoints on it. Those are totally different threads, as far as the conversational tone goes. All threads here are ultimately social threads--they're places where we get together and talk about something. Each one is like someone's house, and you respect the host's sensibilities while you're in it.

 

I understand what you mean about the distinction between these different types of threads, but what if a poster doesn't realise that the author of the thread does not want any arguing, or if others see the argument as merely discussion? Even when the author makes it clear that fans are very welcome, and the thread is for appreciation, the community feel of the thread is not established immediately.

During those first few pages, there is time for anyone to come in and provoke the fans, possibly without even knowing that their comments seem hostile. Things with only the slightest hint of argument can get blown out of proportion when a strong love of something is what is driving the discussion. The fan's love of the book/film, etc will cause them to argue with the person, whether arguing is welcome or not. Yes, I agree, there are a lot of pleasant debates to be had. But once provoked, whether on purpose or unintentionally, the fans will not back down. Who then is at fault: the fans or the 'outsider'?

If a question is asked by someone who does not understand the hype surrounding what the fans are talking about, can't that person ask the question with the intention of keeping it light and friendly, and a generally sociable situation?

 

But once provoked, whether on purpose or unintentionally, the fans will not back down. Who then is at fault: the fans or the 'outsider'?

The fans need to chill out, but I would consider the non-fan the aggressor (or the fan, if it's the basher thread). I don't generally buy an "I didn't know that would be taken as hostile" defense as a poster (as a mod, I give all kinds of chances). I think most people are perfectly aware that when they go into a fan area and insult the object of the fandom, it's going to be taken as hostility. That's just intuitive. That's where tact comes into play.

There are ways to ask questions without being antagonistic, generally by taking a neutral tone. If you're interested in what might be behind the phenomenon, you might write something like, "For myself, I'm not fond of the Harry Potter books, but I do think their level of popularity is an interesting phenomenon. Since you guys are fans, could you tell me what it is you see in the series, and why you think it's popular?" I think most fans would jump on the opportunity to say exactly why they think their adored thing is worthy of adoration. The person asking should probably be prepared for a few people to say, "Oh, come on, give them another chance!"--that's just the nature of the beast; pop culture is a proseltyzing faith--but it will be fairly good natured if genuine interest is expressed. And if the fan keeps harping on it and refusing to answer the question, then the fan is at fault. (By the same token, if the fan gives an answer in good faith and the basher ridicules it, then the basher would be at fault.)

 

Okeday. In that case, I guess that it all just depends on how clear the intentions of the non-fan are when he ventures into an appreciation thread. I still think that this type of discussion should permitted within an appreciation thread - light, sociable discussion that involves both non-fans and fans, but is not allowed to descend into vicious argument for the sake of respect to the fans and their subject of adoration.

Thankyou for answering my question.

 

But coming in and saying, essentially, "that sucks and you're all stupid for liking it" (rough translation of "it's nothing more than")

That "rough translation" is a terrible assumption to make. To assume that anyone means something other than what they say is a pretty bad idea.

I don't think it's a waste of space to have three separate Harry Potter threads, because each one would be doing something different.

But what happens when we start get three separate threads for every movie, every actor and actress, every TV show, every book. Then things could start to get overcrowded.

Amazing.

 

But what happens when we start get three separate threads for every movie, every actor and actress, every TV show, every book. Then things could start to get overcrowded.

I doubt that would happen. There are very few things that have the kind of crossover audiences. This is primarily a Star Wars board. It's possible that you can scare up enough Guiding Light fans to have a conversation, but I'd guess most other people on the JC are pretty much ambivalent, if they know what it is at all. The Matrix, Tolkien, Harry Potter, maybe Star Trek... those have high crossover fandoms (or at least interest groups) with Star Wars, and would get enough people to have threads going on them. Random other things? I doubt even most sf/f would get that much interest.

 

You forgot Buffy.

 

Okay, maybe it got explained, but I didn't see it.

What is the verdict on Basher threads. "I Hate XXXX" or "XXXX is stupid" or "Not a Fan of XXXX Club". Okay? Allowed? Bannable offence?

If the purpose of fan clubs is to socialize with other fans, the purpose of anti-fan clubs is to socialize with other bashers. Just because the focus is hate, doesn't mean that the thread isn't worthwhile.

 

If people hate something, I think they need to ask themselves why they would waste their time bothering themselves with it when there are surely other things they could be doing. I mean, if you hate Harry Potter, and love LOTR, don't you post in the LOTR fan thread instead of starting or posting in a HP-bashing thread?

I agree completely with the sentiment that it's not just what you say but how you say it. If 'bashers' carefully worded their complaint/question/etc then they'd get a much better response than just a 'You're a basher and we don't want you here because this is a thread for fans'. I think a little more common sense and tact is needed sometimes.

*sigh* Why can't we just all get along??

LittleJedi

 

sigh* Why can't we just all get along??

Watch CNN for the answers

If the purpose of fan clubs is to socialize with other fans, the purpose of anti-fan clubs is to socialize with other bashers. Just because the focus is hate, doesn't mean that the thread isn't worthwhile.

I agree, and pointed out the existence of a similar policy in the 'EU Community' forum. But apparently there's all the talk about 'wasting space' and 'Community' is bigger than 'EU Community'. So sorry pal, looks like it's "no".

*shrug*

 

If people hate something, I think they need to ask themselves why they would waste their time bothering themselves with it when there are surely other things they could be doing.

The same question could be asked for somebody that is a fan. Right? I don't think that anybody is in any position to make any distinctions about what is worthwhile for somebody's time and what is not.

And Whimper is right. His question never got answered.