Lit Fleet Junkie Flagship- The technical discussions of the GFFA (Capital Ships thread Mk. II)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by AdmiralWesJanson, Sep 12, 2005.

  1. Skywalker_T-65 Force Ghost

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    Nov 19, 2009
    star 6
  2. DarthCane Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 4
    Yes, which has no shields and far more limited sensors. The TIE/In Interceptor - the fighter Mallar piloted during the fall of his homeworld, in which he was the only guy to get out alive - is also reputed not to be a ship for novices. It needs to be handled delicately or else it can be thrown spinning out of control. In short, I think a pilot who can handle a TIE/In - even a relative rookie - should not have major problems transitioning to the T-65 X-wing. That was the major edge the Alliance pilots had over their Imperial counterparts; their rookies were flying more forgiving snubfighters and could survive to learn from their mistakes. Especially since the model in use (AC4 if you follow the JATSB's designation; CA4 if like me you think that was a typo) is actually slightly faster than the stock TIE/In, if considerably less maneuverable. As far as combat experience ... how many Alliance fighter jocks went straight into an X-wing from a T-16 Skyhopper and became legends, hmm? :cool:

    Short form, the X-wing according to the info we have has no major performance advantage over the E-wing, and is at a disadvantage in key areas. In-universe, the most plausible explanation is that a combination of expense, expediency, and training limitations kept the X-wings in continued service.
    Last edited by DarthCane, Feb 7, 2013
  3. Zeta1127 Force Ghost

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    Sep 2, 2012
    star 4
    Which became a moot point by the time the J series X-wing or T-65J was developed (I don't particularly care for calling them XJs unless its as shorthand like ImpStar, VicStar, or NebStar), because it showed what the T-65 was really capable of.
    Last edited by Zeta1127, Feb 7, 2013
  4. Gorefiend Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2004
    star 5
    Didn’t his home worlds whole planetary defense fleet consist of just 6 TIEs? Doesn’t seem like they could really be all that picky. Plus TIE pilot standards are far from what they were when the Emperor was still around. Also you have to wonder if they had actually ever seen combat before the League came swooping down on them, after all they are stuck at the edge of the Imperial Deep Core, the only people that would potentially come knocking in that area are other Imperials.
    Sure, but it seems doubtful that Mallar knew how to fully exploit the advantages of an X-Wings, or his TIE for that matter. Not like X-Wing pilots who would have veterans of 16+ years fighting against the Empire amongst them.
    Luke is about the only one as he happened to blow up the Death Star in his first battle. ;) Others usually were veterans of the Clone Wars, had seen action with System militias, flew for mercenary groups, came from Imperial service or were smugglers.

    Dual Torpedos and four Lasers? Also not wanting to vomit at the design must be some kind of bonus. :p

    Plain nostalgia and symbolism might also be a factor. The X-Wing is the fighter that killed two Death Stars after all and was a prominent symbol of resistance to Imperial rule. The TIEs also largely endured because of their psychological value and when the Empire had to switch to other fighters it was taken as a symbol of its waning power, by its own people and the enemy alike. Headhunters seem to stick around largely for similar reasons, still employed for system defense more then 70+ years after initial inception, simply because they are trusted, proven and beloved by pilots.
    Last edited by Gorefiend, Feb 7, 2013
  5. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Was the Lusanyka temporarily out of service after the Orinda campaign?

    I was under the impression that it was the Battle of Orinda, revealing the Empire's possession of another two Star Dreadnoughts, and demonstrating their utility "It seemed that the age of the dreadnought wasn't over after all" that sparked the New Republic into building their own, under the name "Star Defender". Even if there hadn't been a Yevethan war, the NR would have tried to get the Lusankya operational in short order.
  6. KansasNavy Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2001
    star 4
    Another explanation is that FreiTek, as an upstart, simply couldn't crank out E-wings or have the supplier network in a way Incom did.
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  7. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 5
    Quick question, please, experts! What sort of range (in Km) would a Capital Ship's Main Batteries have?
  8. Skywalker_T-65 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 19, 2009
    star 6
    That...is a tough one to answer. If one believes certain sources, then they can shoot into the light-minute ranges. If one goes by the movies though, cap-ships have to slug it out at close range. Someone else probably has a more detailed answer.
  9. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    In WEG's Rebellion Sourcebook I believe 80 km was the range given for main battery vs capital ship, and 160 km vs starfighters (I'm assuming they can't target beyond those ranges- but the bolts continue until they hit something or dissipate).

    I've seen analyses done of TCW that point out that ships are described as "out of range" when they look (given their listed size) hundreds rather than thousands of km away.

    And that's outside views- so we can't use the "bridge viewscreen is a magnified image" argument.
  10. Skywalker_T-65 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 19, 2009
    star 6
    ...why exactly would they be able to hit faster moving and much smaller starfighters at twice the range of bigger/slower cap ships?
  11. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 5
    Effective Range probably = where a hit would do significant damage to the target or its shields. With Starfighters they might have gone in for some sort of box-barrage area fire pattern. Throw enough fire in the general direction of the target and let the law of averages work for you!
  12. Skywalker_T-65 Force Ghost

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    Nov 19, 2009
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    Possibly. Just seemed like a bit of a 'what the kriff?' moment :p
  13. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

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    Sep 3, 2012
    star 5
    Far better than I was fearing, anyway! I was expecting 10,000 to 100,000km or thereabouts!
  14. Iron_lord Chosen One

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    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    I'm betting Tzizvvt78 & co. will be along soon to chip in with "Range is 11 light-minutes- complete cross sections says so and it's canon, deal with it" [face_whistling]
    Last edited by Iron_lord, Feb 8, 2013
  15. Skywalker_T-65 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 19, 2009
    star 6
    I knew I heard light-minutes from somewhere :p

    And while that may be a bit excessive, 80km is ridiculously small. That's only something like double the range of a WWII-era battleship. Or, if you want to look at it this way, the Executor is nearly a quarter of that. Something is wrong with that picture :p
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  16. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 5
    Your point about targeting was a good one, though, IL; but I can buy the light-minutes type range for the distance it flies before dissipation. Wonder how many ships were lost because they were so far off that the firing ship didn't even know they were there!

    Shields on a battlewagon are better than on a fighter, Sky-Guy!
    Last edited by Tim Battershell, Feb 8, 2013
  17. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    It's only accurate range- not actual range- otherwise orbital bombardment from high orbit would be impossible.

    Still, I could see it being pushed to a few hundred km. Maybe Edge of the Empire will clarify what gun ranges in space are.

    I think CCS actually stated that the guns could accurately track targets at that distance.
    Last edited by Iron_lord, Feb 8, 2013
  18. Skywalker_T-65 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 19, 2009
    star 6
    I still find it a bit hard to swallow that a society that can build 19 kilometer long ships, and 900 kilometer battlestations can't hit something from further than 80km away reliably :p

    EDIT: Note the 'reliably' there. I know its only the range they are supposedly accurate to. A few hundred km makes a lot more sense.
    Last edited by Skywalker_T-65, Feb 8, 2013
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  19. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

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    Sep 3, 2012
    star 5
    Anything under 1000k would be fine for me!
  20. Iron_lord Chosen One

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    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    The battle between the Malevolence and Plo Koon's ships (the Malevolence prepares to open fire, Plo Koon asks his own officers to fire only to be told "we're not in range yet") approximates to on the order of 250 km based on the known size of the Malevolence and its apparent size in the scene.
  21. AdmiralNick22 Fleet Admiral of Literature

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    Member Since:
    May 28, 2003
    star 6
    @DarthCane

    You make some very good points, but by the NJO the X-wing is not only the dominant space superiority fighter, but it is state of the art. Something lead to the E-wing being moved to a secondary support role. Obviously, Incom made an effort to recapture the fighter market, but I think that ultimately the X-wing won out due to it being more popular due to it's iconic nature. The space frame is nearly identical to the models flown during the Galactic Civil War, but it is now upgraded and advanced to a point that it has no peer competitor.

    I think that the later model E-wings are produced by Incom anyways. Didn't the EGTW or some other source mention that the company was absorbed by Incom once the company completely severed it's ties with the Empire and joined the New Republic?

    --Adm. Nick
  22. darthscott3457 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 25, 2007
    star 3
    In terms of accuracy who knows, but in terms of power I would think the turbolasers batteries have to be effective from at least few thousands kilometers (high LEO orbit, maybe?) in order for them to be used in orbital bombardments.

    As for why space combat is conducted at close quarters, I think it would 100% boil down to turbolaser accuracy over large distances. Though of course I would support the larger number given for their effective range given the technology at hand.:) Pure speculation on my part, but maybe since the weapons capabilities of SW capital ships are so large, that it is beneficial to fight at close quarters, otherwise you run the risk of damaging your own vessel if you are firing at maximum yield.[face_thinking]
  23. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Not necessarily. A "spread out" turbolaser bolt, tens of km wide- could be useless against a ship's shields (since only a tiny amount of the bolt actually hits the ship), yet the whole bolt hits the planet.
  24. Tzizvvt78 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 12, 2009
    star 4
    We have seaborne warships with better aiming. There's been two sea-to-space missile strikes already. :cool:
    The main guns on the Venator-class has an upper limit of ten light-minutes in tracking range. They closed to visual range with the Malevolence, but that ship was huge and well-armored and they probably wanted their firepower to be as strong as possible (with energy depleting as the distance traveled increases, there's a certain logic to this tactic).
    Last edited by Tzizvvt78, Feb 8, 2013
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  25. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 5
    If the sensors operate at lightspeed then a shorter combat range makes sense -- after all the gunners don't want to know where the enemy was 11 minutes ago, they need to know where he is now!

    It depends whether subspace frequencies tend to pass straight through normal-space matter or if they reflect back, and subspace wouldn't be much use as a communication system if the signal was bouncing all over the place, IMHO!