Lit Fleet Junkie Flagship- The technical discussions of the GFFA (Capital Ships thread Mk. II)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by AdmiralWesJanson, Sep 12, 2005.

  1. AdmiralWesJanson Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2005
    star 5
    Long ago there was some decent CGI images.
    The major problems with the K-Wing image that we have now is that it ignores 2 of the main elements of the description- Wings are swept and staggered, and the pilot and bombadier sit in a row, not side by side.
  2. blackmyron Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 2005
    star 5
    It's not a max/min debate, though, at least from the aspect of agendas. It's more of a holistic approach against cherry-picking data. Like I said, it's a complicated question. There's also the scientific angle - the data chart has only two actual data points on it, and that's really insufficient to create anything with a reasonable error of margin.

    I still think it's a question worth asking, and you certainly may be right about the numbers. The chart does nothing towards answering the question, though.

    We only know a few of those answers, although they can sometimes be illuminating. Check out, for instance, the run-downs of some of the sectors we actually have listings for, such as the Trax Sector naval forces. We know that there were 25,000 ISDs at the height of the Empire, which is a good place to start. We know that there were only 5 Exes finished by the Battle of Hoth. We know that the restrictions on planetary and sector navies were great, although influential Moffs would have their own fleets. It's an incomplete picture, but one that grows with each new bit of information.
    Outside the Imperial era some of the questions to ask about the individual sectoral and planetary navies are, what were they like just prior to the Clone Wars, or during the latter NR days? How many of the rich, industrialized sectors in the Core, Colonies and Inner Rim were buying or making local capital ships in excess of the 600m for the galactic-scale? The CTD indicated the NR navy was trying to devolve to the sectoral level again, is that why a local group had Endurance-class carriers (if that's what they were)? Did the Caamas Crisis cause the NR to retreat away from this, leaving the implied more centralized NR navy during the Vong invasion?
    To a certain degree, yes. But with an ever-evolving universe like Star Wars, new answers - and new questions - will arise. I don't think that the Essential Atlas, for instance, should be slighted because it gave concrete shape to something that various fans had their own ideas about over the years. But by the same token, we're never going to fill in all the gaps. There's still a vast sea of unknowns out there, and there always will be. Jason mentioned that trying to fit every named capital ship into classes was a bit too crazy to try for the EGTW, and I'm inclined to agree - not that it would stop some of us from attempting it. To paraphrase an old Irish saying, sometimes the impossible tasks are the only ones worth doing. ;)
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  3. darthscott3457 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 25, 2007
    star 3
    Very fair points all sir, and a great quote. I work with numbers all day long, and in all honestly I would love a complete picture as well. I want there to be a lot more ships greater than a mile in length, with a tremendous amount of diversity in terms of warship design and shipyard manufacturers:)

    However, I feel numbers against things like total number of ships, troops, fastest ship ever, longest ship ever etc... creates too many pigeonholes, especially with the time span involved here. Also the less numbers there are, as I said before, the more imagination one can exercise, thus I think everyone wins. Though I must say these debates can be fun, I know I certainly hold no ill will against any who disagrees with my POV.

    Coming from my POV knowing there were 25,000 Imperator's or 20 or more Executor's is great, but maybe the Empire had 100 other Star Destroyer designs where only a 10 or a 1,000 were made, who knows?:) On the planetary navy part I was thinking more how many warships they got after the Clone Wars by centralizing the Navy than being built post-Empire.
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  4. blackmyron Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 2005
    star 5
    I've been wondering that myself - we only got to really see one nationalization in Dreadnaughts of Rendili (and that was rather an incomplete picture - look at the comic as compared to description of the event in the EGTW). We know from the online HNN that Chandrila had a fleet - what were their ships? What about the mysterious major shipbuilding capabilities of Grizmallt?
    I had hoped that the end of CWAS would lead to more EU material about the Clone Wars, but recent events has thrown a spanner into that, unfortunately. I'm more inclined to look towards FFG's works, although it's doubtful they'll expand out from the Rebellion Era for at least a couple years.
  5. darthscott3457 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 25, 2007
    star 3
    Yeah it would great if it were expanded on, planetary navies/PSF's in any Era interest me greatly. If I take my interpretation of ICS, then I would think there were a significant amount warships, especially large ones when you include all of those private forces into a single nationalized force. I don't think that's too crazy since there have been conflicts between members states before, or they would have such forces for a variety of other reasons. However, looking at EGtW I might think only Kuat can build sizable warships and the those navies were very small. Not matter what seeing more of them would be a great thing.
  6. Gorefiend Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2004
    star 5
    Actually we do have Home Fleet ship lists for several systems under the Empire, among them the Tapani Houses and Tapani Free Worlds said to be allowed a significantly larger force then normal. Which include a Dozen or so VicStars (most held by what is essentially a proxy of the Empire), several Heavy Cruisers and just about anything bellow from the look of it, though mainly patrol ships are mentioned, as well as blastboats, armed freighters and lots of starfighters (among them older model TIEs, Y-Wings, Headhunters and a local design). Whilst the Pirates guide mentioned that most planetary navies are stripped of essentially anything space worthy to form the backbone of the Empire's fleets and are often left with little more then corvettes and gunships.
  7. blackmyron Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 2005
    star 5
    Exactly - we've got that happening at the end of the Clone Wars, with the essential nationalization of S/PSFs that was finalized in the Imperial era. There's always exceptions, like the Tapanis, or the Corporate Sector. I would imagine that 'client states' like Cronese Mandate probably retained a defense fleet as well. But the vast majority were left with next-to-nothing, as you mentioned... although influentual Moffs might have their own fleet as well (I'm guessing that wasn't common, though, as they were supposed to rely on the Sector Fleet for naval support).
    Just prior to the Clone Wars, though, most of the Core Worlds and Colonies probably had significant fleets unless they were an impoverished sector, even if it was impractical - while the Rim sectors, the ones in need of protection, had to scrounge for ships. It's interesting to note, for instance, that neither Randulph Tarkin or Wilhuff Tarkin were able to get Dreadnaught-class heavy cruisers for their respective fleets (this is not to say that Eriadu and Seswenna Sector might've had some heavy cruisers or even larger, they obviously couldn't be intergalactic in range, which is what both Tarkins were looking for in their fleets).
    It's not addressed much, unfortunately. One question I still have is what the deal with Chommell Sector forces were, since they had no impact on the events of TPM.[/quote]
    Last edited by blackmyron, Sep 4, 2013
  8. Gorefiend Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2004
    star 5
    I actually always figured that is meant to mean that they just supplemented their Sector Fleets with ships bought with their own money.


    Properly see it as an internal conflict or there is simply no consensus to actually act.
    Last edited by Gorefiend, Sep 4, 2013
  9. Nobody145 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 9, 2007
    star 4
    Sorry to interrupt the discussion, but anyone else pick up the new The Star Wars comic? Its non-canon of course, but the art is quite good, I like their mini-Stardestroyers, which are attack fighters rather than capital ships in this story.

    Was it mentioned before, and I just missed the news, or is this part new-apparently Sean Cooke drew quite a few designs for this series? At the end of the first issue, they printed several designs he had produced. I don't think any of them appeared in the first issue (except for one brief panel), so more will probably show up in future issues. I'm just glad to see more of his work, his designs are always so high quality.

    EDIT- Just to clarify, Cooke didn't design the new/old Stardestroyers, the interior artist Mike Mayhew did. I quite like what Mayhew came up with though. Haven't seen Cooke design any ships for this series yet (the sketches were for other things), but well, you know how Cooke sketches usually look (very good).
    Last edited by Nobody145, Sep 5, 2013
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  10. Gorefiend Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2004
    star 5
    Yep, it was apparently also the original intention for the movie, though the TIEs then took their place and Star Destroyers became the capital ships of the Empire.
  11. Tzizvvt78 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 12, 2009
    star 4
    What I liked about the Acclamator profile on the old OS, was that it clarified that not only did other shipbuilders spy on KDY (AOTC:ICS), but they did steal and incorporate elements from the Acclamator into their own fleets. Now that's actual fleets instead of just individual ships. Even if KDY ends up being the only warship company to do anything on a trans-galactic scale, that leaves a lot of potential for seeing local designs crop up from time to time. I hope Sean Cooke or Fractalsponge are reading this. ;)
    Last edited by Tzizvvt78, Sep 5, 2013
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  12. Bib Fartuna Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 4, 2012
    star 4
    I hope that this thread has a planned celebration on it's forthcoming 12,800th post, which is quickly approaching.

    The joyous occasion on the 8,000th post was slightly premature, and a little short...
    Rogue_Follower likes this.
  13. Tzizvvt78 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 12, 2009
    star 4
    Are we good for the 15,000th, 17,500th and 19,000th, too? ;)
  14. darthscott3457 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 25, 2007
    star 3
    Now we just need about 69 million more lists :)

    I could only imagine if they let him have his own reference guide. I am sure we would get more than few new classes.
  15. Tzizvvt78 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 12, 2009
    star 4
    And now he's doing Mon Calamari classes, to boot! :cool:
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  16. Senator_Cilghal Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 2003
    star 5
    does anyone have a pic of the Ebruchi fighters from the now defunct Hyperspace "Command Decision"?
  17. Gorefiend Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2004
    star 5

    [IMG]
    Not from Hyperspace but the original AJ 11 :)

    Edit: Also found the colored version from Hyperspace

    [IMG]
    Last edited by Gorefiend, Sep 7, 2013
  18. AlyxDinas Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 12, 2010
    star 4
    I don't know what policy here is about datamined information and the like but information about SWTOR's PvP space combat content is being leaked out like wildfire, including some models of fighters and their modifications. We're looking at some very nice variations for the Liberator class fighter that I'm enjoying quite a bit.
  19. Fractalsponge Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2003

    I try to keep up, though I admit to not doing very well at it :)

    Something to keep in mind before you enter the next Anaxes system debate is that mass, volume, and capabilities will always trump length. Length is correlated to capability, but not as directly as volume and mass.
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  20. AdmiralNick22 Fleet Admiral of Literature

    Manager
    Member Since:
    May 28, 2003
    star 6
    @Fractalsponge

    I just wanted to let you know how much I like your MC90 cruiser model. It is so great to see your awesome talents used on some Mon Calamari designs. I gather that you are pretty busy with stuff, but do you have an idea on when you might finish the MC90 cruiser and if you will ever attempt to make some models for unseen Mon Cal warships like the Mediator-class battle cruiser or Mon Cal heavy carrier?

    --Adm. Nick
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  21. darthscott3457 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 25, 2007
    star 3
    I can only hope one day you get to work on the Star Wars version of Jane's Fighting Ships:)
  22. Tzizvvt78 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 12, 2009
    star 4
    I know you have a Star Cruiser (needle-like ship from DE), a frigate (from the Teezl story in Marvel) a massive carrier, that customs corvette and that fork-like thing from the Atlas and Warfare in more detail. Those need to be finished and in print, in my humble opinion. ;)
    Last edited by Tzizvvt78, Sep 8, 2013
  23. AdmiralNick22 Fleet Admiral of Literature

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    Member Since:
    May 28, 2003
    star 6
    Let the man work on some non-KDY designs for a bit! :p

    Hell, in addition to Mon Calamari warships, I would love to see his take on other Rebel starships like the Nebulon-B series of escort frigate and converted Dreadnaughts like the Rebel Assault Frigate. The more non-Imperial designs he does, the better chance that his works will be used in other Star Wars mediums! :cool:

    --Adm. Nick
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  24. AlyxDinas Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 12, 2010
    star 4
    More rounds of datamining for TOR. Gunship models are particularly nice as is the Republic infiltration model, which has a lot of design elements that harken to KSE or KDY designs. You can find the stuff around but again, without knowing policy for these things I'm not going to post any links.
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  25. AdmiralNick22 Fleet Admiral of Literature

    Manager
    Member Since:
    May 28, 2003
    star 6
    Anything on Republic capital ships available?

    --Adm. Nick