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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Lit Fleet Junkie Flagship- The technical discussions of the GFFA (Capital Ships thread Mk. II)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by AdmiralWesJanson, Sep 12, 2005.

  1. CommanderDrenn

    CommanderDrenn Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 19, 2013
    Good point, Janson! -Sorry, couldn't resist. :)
     
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  2. Gamiel

    Gamiel Chosen One star 9

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    Dec 16, 2012
    IS this the right thread to ask this?: Did WEG create any character sheet for spaceships? And if yes were can I find it?
     
  3. anotherdemon

    anotherdemon Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Apr 29, 2013
    The basic 1 to 2 kilometer long Republic and Imperial Star Destroyers can fit as an analogue to a modern destroyer [or cruiser]; there's lots of them, they're generally some of the most powerful vessels around, but they aren't the biggest and baddest, which goes to the carriers (which are just modern battleships when you think about it; their big guns are standoff weapon platforms and they're big, heavy, prestigious, very expensive and hard to sink ships).

    The funny thing is though, they can also be an analogue to WW2-era all-gun destroyers and cruisers (though probably not heavy cruisers). Those vessels were abundant and powerful -- the much rarer CAs, BCs, and BBs, whilst utterly eclipsing said vessels in size and power, are what we'd generally refer to as an Executor analogue -- the size difference between Executor and a basic ISD is a much larger ratio than say a Fletcher compared to an Iowa.

    The only real problem you run into with the latter of the two comparisons is that we don't see much in the way of WW2-era heavy cruiser and battlecruiser analogues for the Republic and Empire, though the EU has filled that gap (as it has muddled and misinterpreted the scope of the basic ISD in the early stuff, well, in my opinion). But, you could fit the basic ISD in as a WW2-era CA analogue if we say all of the smaller escorts we've seen from the Republic are still used by the Empire, which escort the ISDs.

    Generally, most of the evidence points to them being middle of the road in regards to size and abundance. Like destroyers (modern and old).
     
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  4. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

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    Sep 2, 2012
    Indeed. Even with the smallest Executor justifiable.
     
  5. anotherdemon

    anotherdemon Jedi Knight star 2

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    Apr 29, 2013
    Yep.

    The unrealistic 8 kilometer Executor is still 5 times longer. Iowa to Fletcher is a little over 2 times the length (Fletcher is a little over 1/2 the length of a Mogami-class CA). 14 kilometers for Executor is about 9 times longer than an ISD. The Rebel corvette tends to be 10 times shorter than a basic ISD (a Flower-class corvette is about 1/2 of a Fletcher).

    From that, you can generally say that one group of vessels in the SW universe tend to be quite a bit larger or smaller than the next group of vessels.

    The Clone Wars-era seem to follow the same pattern too, though there's not as large a ratio between the 1 kilometer destroyers/cruisers and the larger battleships/heavy cruisers/dreadnoughts (which tend to be from 2 to 5 times longer).
     
  6. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

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    Sep 2, 2012
    Using the Brass Destroyer (33.5 cm) as a basis for extrapolating the scale for the model (1/4800 would be 1608m - roughly correct for the 1 mile ISD) and then using David West Reynolds's measurement for the Executor (277cm rather than the published figure of 282cm) - produces a 13.3km Executor rather than a 14km one.

    Even at 282 cm, 1/4800 scale, it's only about 13.54 km.
     
  7. Tzizvvt78

    Tzizvvt78 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 12, 2009
    And using ILM's actual statements about the size, we get 17,6 km for the Executor. The Executor is only the culmination of a long line of dreadnought development, though, and doesn't represent the majority of designs. Likewise, the Iowa is at the end of battleship designs and doesn't represent the class as a whole.
     
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  8. blackmyron

    blackmyron Chosen One star 7

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    Oct 29, 2005
    Not surprisingly, FFG's Corellian Sector SB didn't really have much on capital ships, but did include the old Assassin-class - now given the designation CR92a. Lots of info on the Corellian and Duro shipyards, and a number of starfighter models. More when I have the time (or now, if someone else has a copy and wants to post it ;))
     
  9. Tzizvvt78

    Tzizvvt78 Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Jun 12, 2009
    "the old Assassin-class - now given the designation CR92a"

    Nice. :cool:
     
  10. AdmiralWesJanson

    AdmiralWesJanson Force Ghost star 5

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    May 23, 2005
    Assassin class is starting to show up everywhere. This sourcebook, a comic (though using the stock CR-90 image). Is there art of the Assassin in the book?
     
  11. blackmyron

    blackmyron Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Oct 29, 2005
    Yep. There's a nice illustration right above the entry where the corvette is firing on a freighter (a YG-4400, I believe).
     
  12. King of Alsakan

    King of Alsakan Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 25, 2007

    Very good analysis. I am definitely in the camp of thinking an ISD is a very good analog to modern day destroyer class like the Arleigh Burke-class. I think it is harder to fit it to a WWII analog, though I am of the personal opinion an ISD and other warships in that size range should be plentifully and a common sight in the space lanes of the Galaxy, maybe more like a WWII destroyer in terms of numbers. I would have to think some more to say which Imperial design be the Fletcher-class/WWII destroyer analog.

    It would be nice to see more warships in the SWverse that have analogs to the light and heavy cruisers of WWII. I think the lack of size/length diversity is just as bad as the lack of design/shipyard diversity that currently exists.

    Again just my opinion, but I don't see there really being too much of an issue with the dreadnoughts dwarfing the Star Destroyers in size. All things considered, with respect to the galactic civilization, I wouldn't think there would be much of an upper limit in size, especially if its just a one of a kind dreadnought.
     
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  13. anotherdemon

    anotherdemon Jedi Knight star 2

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    Apr 29, 2013
    I used 14 km. for Executor as that's around the minimum size you can generally use (13/14); you can go higher, of course.

    It'd make sense for the Republic/Empire to punch out a proven/good design en masse, which is why you'd see a heap of ISDs and Venators making up the bulk of the fleets. Their size, which is large to us here on Earth, would allow them to fit in more roles for a single design compared to what we think of when we see the terms destroyer and cruiser thrown around. Other, rarer and more dedicated types of vessels, such as "command ships", could be built as needed -- you still have a really powerful navy due to the bulk of the fleet made up with a couple of powerful and proven/good designs, even if it lacks in certain areas (though the EU has added to that, like with the Tector and Allegiance, for example).
     
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  14. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

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    Sep 2, 2012
    Well, we know the left hand of ILM doesn't always know what the right hand is doing. :D
     
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  15. anotherdemon

    anotherdemon Jedi Knight star 2

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    Apr 29, 2013
    I think the 17.6 km. figure is probably the best, as it allows you to fit all of the scenes of Executor in with reasonable accuracy. The smaller you go, the more problems you run into when comparing it to its ISD escorts (you generally can't go smaller than 13-14 km., which is the smallest size you can really get from a couple of shots. You can get a larger size from other shots too, closer to the 17.6 figure -- same with the bridge tower comparisons).

    Ironically, Malevolence has the same problem. Some scenes it's a bit over 7 kilometers and some around 5 (close to the "official" length). I think an airlock comparison to Twilight makes it 40 km.+ (that's why it's never good to scale things when you don't have the full vessel in view). :)
     
  16. King of Alsakan

    King of Alsakan Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 25, 2007
    Quite true, I was very glad about the addition of the Allegiance-class in EGTW. Would be nice to see a few more warships in the Kuati "Star Cruiser" range.
     
  17. AdmiralNick22

    AdmiralNick22 Retired Fleet Admiral star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    May 28, 2003
    I would love to learn more about the Duro shipyards. In fact, does it have anything on the world post-YVW?

    --Adm. Nick
     
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  18. anotherdemon

    anotherdemon Jedi Knight star 2

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    Apr 29, 2013
    Yeah, I'm a fan of Allegiance too, and it's a nice nod to Dark Empire, and it also fits in with what we've been shown by the CIS Navy (somewhat equal to the Republic Navy), where vessels larger than 2 kilometers aren't all that rare.

    An ISD probably isn't a match for a Separatist Dreadnought like Invincible (CIS has plenty of those), and it wouldn't be a match for a Trade Fed. BB. Enter larger wedge shaped vessels.

    Whilst the Empire could just Zerg enemies of the same parity (which they just came out of a war with), they don't seem like the type to do that, i.e., the response to a big honking battleship is a bigger honking battleship. As we saw, mainline destroyers with the Venator couldn't do anything to Malevolence, even with its primary shields down -- throwing more of them at it probably wouldn't do any better -- there's a point where armor generally just withstands a certain amount of firepower for all practical applications, so you have to make bigger...firepower.
     
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  19. blackmyron

    blackmyron Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Oct 29, 2005
    Nothing at all for anything post-ROTJ for any topic, sadly.

    As far as the shipyards - they are called "one of the most prolific and successful ship construction industries in the galaxy", run by the Duro Shipwrights Guild. CEC is a major stockholder, and a great deal of work on CEC ships is done here. Other ship design firms also contract with Duro. The Empire took much of the ship-building capacity for the Imperial Navy.

    Nothing about unique Duros ships, though.
     
  20. Gamiel

    Gamiel Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2012
    Anything about duros culture, society or daily life? Or any duros specific items?

    Awww :(
     
  21. AdmiralNick22

    AdmiralNick22 Retired Fleet Admiral star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    May 28, 2003
    Well, at least it reinforced the close relationship between the Corellians and Duros. CEC being a major stockholder makes good sense. Corellian-Duros relations have actually always rather fascinated me, as it is a rare example of two major powers being right next to each other but, as far as we know, never fighting a war. From the moment they started cooperating in the pre-Republic era on hyperdrives, things seem to have gone rather smoothly.

    Anything on the Duros being an early member of the Alliance to Restore the Republic? Folks often forget that the Duros government-in-exile was a major player in the Alliance, led by Jessnar SoBilles. Did he get name dropped at all?

    I would also LOVE to know more about Corfai, so any nuggets there would be appreciated. I am especially interested to know if any worlds in the Corellian Sector had pro-Rebel leanings.

    --Adm. Nick
     
  22. AdmiralWesJanson

    AdmiralWesJanson Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    May 23, 2005
    Does it look like a CR90, or is it like the Modified Corvette design from TIE Fighter on? And I wonder if the Night Caller-type pocket carrier corvette will get an official class at some point.

    Duro and Corellia not fighting a war? Both are cultures highly invested in starfaring and exploration- things like territory and resources are not a major conflict point, since they can both just expand further. And being starfarers, they likely have a similar rnough culture that that would not be a point of contention either.
     
  23. blackmyron

    blackmyron Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Oct 29, 2005
    Okay - ship list:

    Starfighters/Patrol Boats
    A-type Stiletto
    Coneship
    CL-1C Lancet Interceptor
    LAF-250 Starfighter
    HLAF-500 Starfighter
    PPB Pocket Patrol Boat
    PB-950 Patrol Boat
    Freighters and Transports
    CSS-1 Corellian Star Shuttle
    D-Type Stealth Freighter
    J-Type Star Skiff
    S-Type Racing Sloop
    YG-4400 Light Freighter
    YT-1210 Light Freighter
    Capital Ships
    CR92a Assassin-class Corvette



    Nothing about Duros and the Rebel Alliance, unfortunately. Corfai is a direct colony of Coruscant, and takes pride in being one of the oldest human civilizations in the sector; however, they are also rugged and independent. It is a major center for trade, exports high-quality lumber and glacial ice(!), and has a legend that they were excluded from the "Galactic Constitution Conference" because their representatives mysteriously 'vanished' (although historians assume it was actually because they were considered a colony of Coruscant).

    Grand Moff Dargon, responsible for the destruction of Froz, was branded a war criminal by the Alliance. The planet Vagran, whose restrictions on corporate development are being "suggested" to change by the Grand Moff, has a growing element leaning toward the Alliance. Xyquine II's population is also growing in sympathy for the Alliance, especially after the destruction of Froz - the government covertly supports them while publicly denouncing any anti-Imperial sentiments.

    It looks pretty bang-on as the old Mod Corvette from the X-Wing games.

    It is stated that the abiding love for history and their capacity to recite stories and legends with perfect accuracy is one of their defining traits. Also, the Neimoidians are slowly being reintegrated back into Duros culture. No Duros-specific items or vehicles, though.
     
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  24. Gorefiend

    Gorefiend Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 2004
    Nice and obscure @ LAFs and PPBS
     
  25. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Given that Pablo Hidalgo, one of the Story Group people, was the one who posted the Brass Star Destroyer article in the first place- and Ryder Windham, one of the splatbook writers, commented approvingly on it - the possibility that the next book to size it will use the smaller size, is an interesting one- even if it's only speculation at the moment.

    A "Star Destroyer Workshop Manual" with the Super Star Destroyers in the appendix, would I suspect be pretty popular.