Lit Fleet Junkie Flagship- The technical discussions of the GFFA (Capital Ships thread Mk. II)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by AdmiralWesJanson, Sep 12, 2005.

  1. AdmiralWesJanson Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2005
    star 5
    Huh. Having multiple sized ships called part of the Praetor II class could work for us. We know that different sized ships can all be part of the same class now, thanks to the 17 Km and 3Km versions of the Viscount being the same class 8-} and there is precedent for ships evolving during production runs. Perhaps the early Praetor II was the 4.8 Km version, while later builds it was redesigned to be larger, and finally a late model version was built at near 8 Km. The Mandator was an 8Km dreadnoght based on the Bellator design it seems, but post Clone Wars, it was probably easier to sell the Senate on "Battlecruisers" like the Praetor, being easier on the budget, and to the navy, who saw Mandators as big system defense boats. The 8 Km Praetor II may also account for the development of the Sarlaac project and the early reports to the Senate about the Super-class, before the Senate faded into impotence and KDY gave up on scaling up the Praetor even more, and decided to update the Mandator instead, and let Lira finally play with her Executor design
    darthscott3457 and Iron_lord like this.
  2. AdmiralWesJanson Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2005
    star 5
    Jedi Cruiser or Jedi Attack cruiser was not the official name, but probably dubbed by Holonet News and propaganda, the same stuff that gave us the Negotiator and the Hero Without Fear titles for Anakin and Obi-Wan. And Palpatine probably didn't mind as it tied the Jedi closer to the War in the publics eye.
  3. jasonfry VIP

    VIP
    Member Since:
    Nov 11, 2003
    star 3

    If I had a future project where it made sense to address this, this is the path I'd take -- Praetor II Mk. I through whatever. It fits with the nugget that a lot of initial battlecruiser designs were built for wealthy Core sectors, for defense but also as vanity projects to impress the neighbors. So you'd get a lot of variants based on clients wanting something that wasn't identical to the sector next door ("perhaps a few hundred meters bigger?") and on starshipwrights wanting to experiment. I can see that legacy extending to the Empire buying a handful of battlecruisers and/or reconditioning existing battlecruisers that it seized from sector defense fleets.
  4. FTeik Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 2000
    star 5
    Last edited by FTeik, Jul 3, 2014
  5. AdmiralNick22 Fleet Admiral of Literature

    Manager
    Member Since:
    May 28, 2003
    star 6
    @FTeik

    I deleted your double post for you. For editing post (not deleting) you can simply hit the "Edit" button and make whatever changes you need to make.

    @blackmyron

    Thanks for the details. I am a bit bummed there isn't a lot of new info on the Mon Cal shipyards or Mon Cal cruisers, but it still sounds solid. Out of curiosity, what sort of government is listed for Dac? Also, besides the few already posted on the FFG website, are there additional new images of Mon Cal cruisers or the Rebel Fleet? What image do they use for the Liberty-type cruisers?

    --Adm. Nick
  6. King of Alsakan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 25, 2007
    star 4
    The reasoning above for the evolving Praetor-II design would definitely be a good explanation. It would nice to have many more battlecruisers designs come out of this as well, Kuati and non-Kuati alike.:)
    Now if only to fill up the dreadnought range some more designs[face_praying]
    Iron_lord likes this.
  7. Tied Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 18, 2013
    star 1

    If i was them i would just port the legends designs and flesh them out, or at-least the ones i have soft spots for Belator, Vengeance. Assertor, Alligence, Secutor

    I wonder what the purpose of the Assertor was, i guess a more sane SSD design than the sovereign or eclipse, certainly probably the most sound design, you could put it in the NJO or secound galatic civil war era though im pretty sure Pellaeon would have a heart attack upon seeing that beast
    Last edited by Tied, Jul 3, 2014
    darthscott3457 likes this.
  8. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 7
    Maybe "Sovereign" was the Rebel designation for what the Imperials called "Assertor"? They are the same length at least.

    TEGTW decided to keep them separate designs though.
  9. blackmyron Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 2005
    star 5
    Didn't even think about the government in the wake of CWAS! It's "representative council". No mention of a monarchy in the flavor text.
    Plenty of great fleet action shots - p. 391 has an all-out Imp vs. Alliance battle, with a Providence-class Rebel ship (Rebel One?) and a side view of a Mon Cal cruiser. p. 335 has an illustration of Ackbar looking at a holo of three ISDs. p. 328 has an ISD shredding an escort frigate. p. 284 has a top-down image of the Liberty-type (with the entry on the MC80 on the same page). p. 282 has a Procurator and two ISDs battling a motley assortment of minor Rebel craft over a planet. p. 269 has a B-wing flying over a Liberty-type from the top. p. 261 has a shot of the Alliance Fleet with what's probably Home One very prominent. p. 253 has what appears to be a Home One type battling an ISD. p. 234-5 has a spread of the Alliance Fleet with probably the Home One again. p. 137 has a Mon Cal (Ackbar?) pointing out the window at an Imperial taskforce attacking, led by an Executor. p. 112-3 has Ackbar, front and center, on the bridge.
    There's more space combat, but that's the main fleet action and Ackbar stuff.
  10. King of Alsakan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 25, 2007
    star 4

    I hope those designs continue to live on as well. I believe Fractals intent with the Assertor was for it to be designed for more ship to ship combat and to be the equivalent of the real world "maximum battleship". Though he did also intend for a mini-superlaser as well. He thought an Assertor would equal 400 ISD's or two Executor's.
  11. Tzizvvt78 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 12, 2009
    star 4
    Cool stuff!
    I wonder if there's even a place for inter-sector rivalry/warfare in all this. Even if the Empire is a more central authority than the Republic, if the Republic members could have interstellar conflicts, there's no reason why Imperial systems couldn't go toe-to-toe at times. Might even make it practical for only the most fanatical Imperial devotees or yes-men to get Executors, they'd be almost guaranteed to not run off with them and could take on several lesser Imperial command ships if the need arose.
    darthscott3457 likes this.
  12. blackmyron Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 2005
    star 5
    Well, it's a shame that nothing post-ROTJ will get explored for now, but with FFG - who knows. (I'm fine with them sticking with the traditional RE for the next few years, anyways).
    Probably because there wasn't any demonstration that any Sovereigns became spaceworthy before Byss blew up (the old misreference from the SWE notwithstanding), but we had an illustration of an Assertor in action.
    Iron_lord and darthscott3457 like this.
  13. anotherdemon Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2013
    star 2
    More than likely a colloquial and accurate mix; a cruiser that you'll often find a Jedi aboard, with its official designation being "Attack Cruiser".

    Cruiser probably fits it better than destroyer for the Republic's classification, as we never see it escort anything (it's always the maximum Republic ship around in all the important battles).
  14. Tied Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 18, 2013
    star 1

    Ya thats what i thought aswell it being a massive gun platform
  15. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 7
    In Labyrinth of Evil the term used was "assault cruiser" - still - same general idea.
  16. ShanOffirin Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 14, 2006
    star 2
    The B-wings it seems finally got a class type number as well: A/SF-01 B-wing starfighter.

    About time too since it kinda feels out of place when it came to X-wings (T-65s - variety there), Y-wings (BTL-A4 & BTL-S3) and A-wings (RZ-1).
  17. Tied Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 18, 2013
    star 1

    I really do like the idea of Preator 2s being handed out to squabbling buercrats, probably would be my dream job
  18. AdmiralWesJanson Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2005
    star 5
    Hmm.
    T-65 Xwing (All Incom ships are T-##, while Incom/Subpro designs have the Z-##, the ARC-170 (Advanced Recon/Clone?) PTB (Patrol Torpedo Bomber) and NTB (Naval Torpedo Bomber)

    BTL- Y-Wings seems to make sense as (Bomber Torpedo Light) With the A, B, and S models

    RZ-1 is built off of the R-22, likely a company specific designation like Incom. We also see the R-41

    A/SF-01 makes sense as Assault/Strike Fighter. It is meant to take on capital ships, but we never see it in a bomber role like the Y-Wing.

    there is also the GAT series Skiprays, possibly General Assault Torpedo?
    StrikerKOJ and MercenaryAce like this.
  19. AdmiralNick22 Fleet Admiral of Literature

    Manager
    Member Since:
    May 28, 2003
    star 6
    Fantastic! I love that the representative council bit is still front & center. Having a constitutional monarchy is fine by me, provided that the true powers lay in the Calamarian Council. The Mon Cals were ardent supporters of democracy in the EU, so it is good to see that they haven't forgotten this.

    Good to see Rebel One getting some love. This books sounds like it is set in that period between the loss of the "old fleet" at Deep Space Besh and the promotion of Ackbar to commander of the Alliance Navy and his reorganization & rebuilding. A the image on pg. 234-235 sounds awesome, as any two page spread of the Alliance Fleet is okay in my book.

    Does the book drop any hints about how large the Rebel Navy was? My copy doesn't arrive until Wednesday, so any interesting nuggets you can throw my way are much appreciated!

    --Adm. Nick
    Iron_lord likes this.
  20. ShanOffirin Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 14, 2006
    star 2

    ARC-170 stands for Aggressive ReConnaissance-170.
  21. anotherdemon Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2013
    star 2
    What's everyone's thoughts on the ICS' now and the future?

    Personally, I think they should keep most of the stuff in the Complete and Clone Wars versions -- they're generally the best "ship books" that have been released in regards to details and expanded text.

    I'm pretty sure Rebels and Episode VII will get an ICS book each. I hope they keep the prior work when they more than likely release a new Complete one in the future. That way, the "Attack Cruiser" will still be a Venator-class Star Destroyer, the CIS ships will have class names (Recusant, Subjugator, Munificient and Providence; all are pretty good names), and none of it conflicts with the future movies (I'm sure it won't).

    Whilst some bits are often disliked (specific energy figures and whatnot when we all know such is based on what the writer's want at a set time, so there'll be widely variable numbers; I'm guessing some also don't like Saxton's take on the "Star" prefix and what it means, though I'm sure most can see the logic in it), I think they enrich the universe far more than they take from it. And in the end, that's the important thing with expanded works.
  22. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 7
    The Complete Vehicles book does have an error or two - it lists the Falcon's length as 26m and the DS1's as 160 km - both of which were retconned in subsequent works. While the length (diameter) of the DS1 is highly arguable - I think nearly everyone agrees that 26m is too short for the Falcon.

    And many of the Complete Vehicles PT lengths don't match up with the ones in the later Incredible Vehicles.

    While some things might be justified by two different classes with the same general appearance (Providence-class compared to Separatist Dreadnought maybe?) that doesn't work for all of them.
  23. Tzizvvt78 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 12, 2009
    star 4
    According to ILM, the DS I was 163 or so, so they were off about 3 km. ;)
    Last edited by Tzizvvt78, Jul 5, 2014
  24. seeker_two Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2003
    star 3
    Could the word "star" in Star Destroyer, Star Battlecruiser, Star Dreadnought, etc. be an acronym for a special designation of Imp ships?.....like STARSHIP/TACTICAL, ASSAULT, & REGULATORY?....

    Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
    Tzizvvt78 and Iron_lord like this.
  25. blackmyron Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 2005
    star 5
    The same fate of any of the other EU material made before the announcement of the NEU.

    Personally, I imagine that they'll take the path of least resistance and keep anything that isn't directly contrary. But, as you've probably noticed there's a minority that believes they'll purge the EU completely, except for whatever their personal canon says. All I have to say to them is - maybe you should look at who's going to be making those decisions, and who isn't. [face_laugh]

    But it's ultimately a moot point, since we really won't get a true feel for what the "NEU" will or won't retain until the first NEU post-ROTJ support material comes out.
    Iron_lord likes this.