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Lit Fleet Junkie Flagship- The technical discussions of the GFFA (Capital Ships thread Mk. II)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by AdmiralWesJanson, Sep 12, 2005.

  1. AdmiralWesJanson

    AdmiralWesJanson Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 23, 2005
    Huh. Having multiple sized ships called part of the Praetor II class could work for us. We know that different sized ships can all be part of the same class now, thanks to the 17 Km and 3Km versions of the Viscount being the same class 8-} and there is precedent for ships evolving during production runs. Perhaps the early Praetor II was the 4.8 Km version, while later builds it was redesigned to be larger, and finally a late model version was built at near 8 Km. The Mandator was an 8Km dreadnoght based on the Bellator design it seems, but post Clone Wars, it was probably easier to sell the Senate on "Battlecruisers" like the Praetor, being easier on the budget, and to the navy, who saw Mandators as big system defense boats. The 8 Km Praetor II may also account for the development of the Sarlaac project and the early reports to the Senate about the Super-class, before the Senate faded into impotence and KDY gave up on scaling up the Praetor even more, and decided to update the Mandator instead, and let Lira finally play with her Executor design
     
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  2. AdmiralWesJanson

    AdmiralWesJanson Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 23, 2005
    Jedi Cruiser or Jedi Attack cruiser was not the official name, but probably dubbed by Holonet News and propaganda, the same stuff that gave us the Negotiator and the Hero Without Fear titles for Anakin and Obi-Wan. And Palpatine probably didn't mind as it tied the Jedi closer to the War in the publics eye.
     
  3. jasonfry

    jasonfry VIP star 4 VIP

    Registered:
    Nov 11, 2003

    If I had a future project where it made sense to address this, this is the path I'd take -- Praetor II Mk. I through whatever. It fits with the nugget that a lot of initial battlecruiser designs were built for wealthy Core sectors, for defense but also as vanity projects to impress the neighbors. So you'd get a lot of variants based on clients wanting something that wasn't identical to the sector next door ("perhaps a few hundred meters bigger?") and on starshipwrights wanting to experiment. I can see that legacy extending to the Empire buying a handful of battlecruisers and/or reconditioning existing battlecruisers that it seized from sector defense fleets.
     
  4. FTeik

    FTeik Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 7, 2000
     
  5. AdmiralNick22

    AdmiralNick22 Fleet Admiral of Literature star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    May 28, 2003
    FTeik

    I deleted your double post for you. For editing post (not deleting) you can simply hit the "Edit" button and make whatever changes you need to make.

    blackmyron

    Thanks for the details. I am a bit bummed there isn't a lot of new info on the Mon Cal shipyards or Mon Cal cruisers, but it still sounds solid. Out of curiosity, what sort of government is listed for Dac? Also, besides the few already posted on the FFG website, are there additional new images of Mon Cal cruisers or the Rebel Fleet? What image do they use for the Liberty-type cruisers?

    --Adm. Nick
     
  6. King of Alsakan

    King of Alsakan Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 25, 2007
    The reasoning above for the evolving Praetor-II design would definitely be a good explanation. It would nice to have many more battlecruisers designs come out of this as well, Kuati and non-Kuati alike.:)
    Now if only to fill up the dreadnought range some more designs[face_praying]
     
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  7. Tied

    Tied Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Mar 18, 2013

    If i was them i would just port the legends designs and flesh them out, or at-least the ones i have soft spots for Belator, Vengeance. Assertor, Alligence, Secutor

    I wonder what the purpose of the Assertor was, i guess a more sane SSD design than the sovereign or eclipse, certainly probably the most sound design, you could put it in the NJO or secound galatic civil war era though im pretty sure Pellaeon would have a heart attack upon seeing that beast
     
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  8. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 8

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Maybe "Sovereign" was the Rebel designation for what the Imperials called "Assertor"? They are the same length at least.

    TEGTW decided to keep them separate designs though.
     
  9. blackmyron

    blackmyron Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 29, 2005
    Didn't even think about the government in the wake of CWAS! It's "representative council". No mention of a monarchy in the flavor text.
    Plenty of great fleet action shots - p. 391 has an all-out Imp vs. Alliance battle, with a Providence-class Rebel ship (Rebel One?) and a side view of a Mon Cal cruiser. p. 335 has an illustration of Ackbar looking at a holo of three ISDs. p. 328 has an ISD shredding an escort frigate. p. 284 has a top-down image of the Liberty-type (with the entry on the MC80 on the same page). p. 282 has a Procurator and two ISDs battling a motley assortment of minor Rebel craft over a planet. p. 269 has a B-wing flying over a Liberty-type from the top. p. 261 has a shot of the Alliance Fleet with what's probably Home One very prominent. p. 253 has what appears to be a Home One type battling an ISD. p. 234-5 has a spread of the Alliance Fleet with probably the Home One again. p. 137 has a Mon Cal (Ackbar?) pointing out the window at an Imperial taskforce attacking, led by an Executor. p. 112-3 has Ackbar, front and center, on the bridge.
    There's more space combat, but that's the main fleet action and Ackbar stuff.
     
  10. King of Alsakan

    King of Alsakan Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 25, 2007

    I hope those designs continue to live on as well. I believe Fractals intent with the Assertor was for it to be designed for more ship to ship combat and to be the equivalent of the real world "maximum battleship". Though he did also intend for a mini-superlaser as well. He thought an Assertor would equal 400 ISD's or two Executor's.
     
  11. Tzizvvt78

    Tzizvvt78 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 12, 2009
    Cool stuff!
    I wonder if there's even a place for inter-sector rivalry/warfare in all this. Even if the Empire is a more central authority than the Republic, if the Republic members could have interstellar conflicts, there's no reason why Imperial systems couldn't go toe-to-toe at times. Might even make it practical for only the most fanatical Imperial devotees or yes-men to get Executors, they'd be almost guaranteed to not run off with them and could take on several lesser Imperial command ships if the need arose.
     
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  12. blackmyron

    blackmyron Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 29, 2005
    Well, it's a shame that nothing post-ROTJ will get explored for now, but with FFG - who knows. (I'm fine with them sticking with the traditional RE for the next few years, anyways).
    Probably because there wasn't any demonstration that any Sovereigns became spaceworthy before Byss blew up (the old misreference from the SWE notwithstanding), but we had an illustration of an Assertor in action.
     
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  13. anotherdemon

    anotherdemon Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Apr 29, 2013
    More than likely a colloquial and accurate mix; a cruiser that you'll often find a Jedi aboard, with its official designation being "Attack Cruiser".

    Cruiser probably fits it better than destroyer for the Republic's classification, as we never see it escort anything (it's always the maximum Republic ship around in all the important battles).
     
  14. Tied

    Tied Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Mar 18, 2013

    Ya thats what i thought aswell it being a massive gun platform
     
  15. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 8

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    In Labyrinth of Evil the term used was "assault cruiser" - still - same general idea.
     
  16. Noash_Retrac

    Noash_Retrac Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 14, 2006
    The B-wings it seems finally got a class type number as well: A/SF-01 B-wing starfighter.

    About time too since it kinda feels out of place when it came to X-wings (T-65s - variety there), Y-wings (BTL-A4 & BTL-S3) and A-wings (RZ-1).
     
  17. Tied

    Tied Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Mar 18, 2013

    I really do like the idea of Preator 2s being handed out to squabbling buercrats, probably would be my dream job
     
  18. AdmiralWesJanson

    AdmiralWesJanson Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 23, 2005
    Hmm.
    T-65 Xwing (All Incom ships are T-##, while Incom/Subpro designs have the Z-##, the ARC-170 (Advanced Recon/Clone?) PTB (Patrol Torpedo Bomber) and NTB (Naval Torpedo Bomber)

    BTL- Y-Wings seems to make sense as (Bomber Torpedo Light) With the A, B, and S models

    RZ-1 is built off of the R-22, likely a company specific designation like Incom. We also see the R-41

    A/SF-01 makes sense as Assault/Strike Fighter. It is meant to take on capital ships, but we never see it in a bomber role like the Y-Wing.

    there is also the GAT series Skiprays, possibly General Assault Torpedo?
     
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  19. AdmiralNick22

    AdmiralNick22 Fleet Admiral of Literature star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    May 28, 2003
    Fantastic! I love that the representative council bit is still front & center. Having a constitutional monarchy is fine by me, provided that the true powers lay in the Calamarian Council. The Mon Cals were ardent supporters of democracy in the EU, so it is good to see that they haven't forgotten this.

    Good to see Rebel One getting some love. This books sounds like it is set in that period between the loss of the "old fleet" at Deep Space Besh and the promotion of Ackbar to commander of the Alliance Navy and his reorganization & rebuilding. A the image on pg. 234-235 sounds awesome, as any two page spread of the Alliance Fleet is okay in my book.

    Does the book drop any hints about how large the Rebel Navy was? My copy doesn't arrive until Wednesday, so any interesting nuggets you can throw my way are much appreciated!

    --Adm. Nick
     
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  20. Noash_Retrac

    Noash_Retrac Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 14, 2006

    ARC-170 stands for Aggressive ReConnaissance-170.
     
  21. anotherdemon

    anotherdemon Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Apr 29, 2013
    What's everyone's thoughts on the ICS' now and the future?

    Personally, I think they should keep most of the stuff in the Complete and Clone Wars versions -- they're generally the best "ship books" that have been released in regards to details and expanded text.

    I'm pretty sure Rebels and Episode VII will get an ICS book each. I hope they keep the prior work when they more than likely release a new Complete one in the future. That way, the "Attack Cruiser" will still be a Venator-class Star Destroyer, the CIS ships will have class names (Recusant, Subjugator, Munificient and Providence; all are pretty good names), and none of it conflicts with the future movies (I'm sure it won't).

    Whilst some bits are often disliked (specific energy figures and whatnot when we all know such is based on what the writer's want at a set time, so there'll be widely variable numbers; I'm guessing some also don't like Saxton's take on the "Star" prefix and what it means, though I'm sure most can see the logic in it), I think they enrich the universe far more than they take from it. And in the end, that's the important thing with expanded works.
     
  22. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 8

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    The Complete Vehicles book does have an error or two - it lists the Falcon's length as 26m and the DS1's as 160 km - both of which were retconned in subsequent works. While the length (diameter) of the DS1 is highly arguable - I think nearly everyone agrees that 26m is too short for the Falcon.

    And many of the Complete Vehicles PT lengths don't match up with the ones in the later Incredible Vehicles.

    While some things might be justified by two different classes with the same general appearance (Providence-class compared to Separatist Dreadnought maybe?) that doesn't work for all of them.
     
  23. Tzizvvt78

    Tzizvvt78 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 12, 2009
    According to ILM, the DS I was 163 or so, so they were off about 3 km. ;)
     
  24. seeker_two

    seeker_two Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jan 3, 2003
    Could the word "star" in Star Destroyer, Star Battlecruiser, Star Dreadnought, etc. be an acronym for a special designation of Imp ships?.....like STARSHIP/TACTICAL, ASSAULT, & REGULATORY?....

    Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
     
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  25. blackmyron

    blackmyron Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 29, 2005
    The same fate of any of the other EU material made before the announcement of the NEU.

    Personally, I imagine that they'll take the path of least resistance and keep anything that isn't directly contrary. But, as you've probably noticed there's a minority that believes they'll purge the EU completely, except for whatever their personal canon says. All I have to say to them is - maybe you should look at who's going to be making those decisions, and who isn't. [face_laugh]

    But it's ultimately a moot point, since we really won't get a true feel for what the "NEU" will or won't retain until the first NEU post-ROTJ support material comes out.
     
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