Lit Fleet Junkie Flagship- The technical discussions of the GFFA (Capital Ships thread Mk. II)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by AdmiralWesJanson, Sep 12, 2005.

  1. King of Alsakan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 25, 2007
    star 3
    For those interested, and of course with a huge grain of salt, here are some recent rumors of what types of warships and starfighters will be appearing in Episode VII:
  2. blackmyron Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 2005
    star 5
    [face_laugh] Oh, if only all of that is true...

    All we need now is another Death Star.
  3. Meyerm Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 17, 2014
    star 2
    I was directed here for my question. The CIS providence-class has a conflicting history. One source says it was used by the trade federation before the war in response to the failures in Naboo. Another says it was commissioned for the CIS when the war started by the Quarrens, developed partially as a cover for the Malevolence. Which is true?
  4. Gorefiend Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2004
    star 5
    Well neither anymore being old EU and all, but it could actually both be true. Asked for by the Trade Federation because of the Naboo mess and then used by the CIS as the war started.
  5. darklordoftech Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 6
    At this point, I would rather another Death Star than more Sith.
  6. Meyerm Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 17, 2014
    star 2
    What I mean is, was it created FOR the separatists with the war in mind, or used prior and adopted by the separatists? Kind of like how some ships existed prior to the war and were commandeered by the CIS fleet, while others were designed specifically for the war and the CIS fleet.
  7. Nobody145 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 9, 2007
    star 4
    Technically, the entire Trade Federation fleet was always meant for the Clone Wars. At first Nute Gunray thought blockading Naboo just meant more money soon, but a few years after that mess, it then led to him joining the Confederacy and much of the corporate fleets were aided by Sidious. The Darth Plagueis novel showed that the Intergalactic Banking Clan was basically already controlled by Plagueis, Palpatine's master, years before the Battle of Naboo, so the military build-up on both sides (the new fleets and the clone army) was orchestrated by the Sith.

    Not entirely sure what sources match and what counts anymore, but I think the basic idea is that after Naboo, the Trade Federation wanted more than just droid troops and starfighters and upgraded freighters, so the Providence-class was that, a true warship. So it was created prior to the war, but by that time period there's little distinction between the Trade Federation and Separatists anymore.

    Well, unless you go by TCW's screwy canon, which delights in stupid story ideas because they can. In the first few seasons we saw Lucrehulks as part of Separatist fleets several times. By the later seasons, the Trade Federation is "neutral", Gunray is "rogue" so they never use Lucrehulks anymore and instead had to come up with a new supply ship (as shown in the Umbara arc). If/when they do a special edition of Episode III, wonder if they'll leave in the Lucrehulks in the battle. You'd think by then the Trade Federation would officially be hostile, but when higher-ups meddle, canon is tricky.
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  8. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Interesting bits of the new Executor article in the Official Star Wars Fact File (Issue 34):

    "At 19 kilometres long, bristling with thousands of projectile and energy weapon arrays and carrying over 300 auxiliary ships and almost 40,000 troops, the Executor was the first of the Star Dreadnoughts, also dubbed the Super Star Destroyers."

    Length: 19,000 metres
    Speed: 40 mglt
    Class: Dreadnought Class
    Shielding: 2 KDY ISD-72x deflector shield generator domes.

    The Titan Falls

    The Executor remained Vader's flagship until the Battle of Endor, when the ship was destroyed in a castastropic collision with the second Death Star. During the conflict, Admiral Piett had taken up position close to the Forest Moon of Endor. However, the Rebels led an audacious assault on the Executor at point-blank range, first destroying the ship's deflector shield domes and then striking at the command centre. In a suicide run, A-wing pilot Arvel Crynyd flew his damaged ship directly into the bridge. With its controls shattered the Executor was caught in the Death Stars gravity well and struck the vast battle station with enough force to obliterate the ship.

    I'm wondering if this means the Mandators have been retconned away? Complete Vehicles removed references to them from the section on the Venator-class Star Destroyer, after all.

    The other thing of interest is that it only lists 2 shield generators for the ship - which would suggest that the bridge domes don't just protect the bridge, but the whole ship.
    Last edited by Iron_lord, Aug 28, 2014
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  9. Meyerm Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 17, 2014
    star 2
    Here's another issue with capitol ship origin stories: The Interdictor. The main ship used by Revan's sith empire. According to what I've pieced together (mostly from the wiki with cited sources), The Leviathan was the ONLY ship of the class built by the Republic. Saul Karath, the ship's captain, defected with the ship where it was then duplicated at the star forge. Here's the issue. Karath defected AFTER the war already started, which means that either it's false that it was the only one, or the Sith fleet at the start of the war was mostly Hammerheads and other popular republic designs and later adopted the interdictor as pretty much most of the entire fleet, apparently all within a 1 year period. The wiki also frequently mentions that much of the sith fleet were turncoat republic vessels. This cannot be true because most of their fleet was built by the star forge, or was it?
  10. Zeta1127 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 4
    I can't speak to the specifics of Darth Revan's fleet, but in regards to the last part, I think its more along the lines of most of the Revan's fleet was crewed by turncoat Republic officers, though I am sure there were plenty of Republic vessels that defected too.
  11. Meyerm Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 17, 2014
    star 2
    Once source says The Leviathan was the only one to serve in The Republic, which defected and served as a template for star forge copies of it. Another says they saw limited use in republic hands but were phased out in favor of the cheaper hammerheads as the jedi civil war waged on. These are the possible scenarios. Any one ca be correct, but they can't all be correct:

    a. The Leviathan was the only ship of the class built by the republic. Revan's empire invaded with turncoat republic ships. Saul Karath defected with the ship, which was then copied by the star forge, rendering the turncoat vessels obsolete.

    b. The Leviathan was just one of multiple republic interdictors. Some were part of Revan's fleet when he abandoned the republic and were copied by the star forge. Revan invades with an already prepared fleet of star forge-produced interdictors. The remaining republic interdictors, the Leviathan as one of them, either defect, are captured, or destroyed, and the republic ceases production to focus on the cheaper hammerhead class.

    Either one makes sense. On one hand story a is supported by the claim that Revan's fleet was mostly turncoat vessels (at least initially), but then again, B would better explain why no other republic ship classes seem to make an appearance in sith use, The Ravager excluded. Would the Sith dismantle or sell their other ships for raw materials and parts, or use them until they're destroyed one by one? In the case scenario A, that gives about a year's time for the sith to almost completely replace their fleet.
  12. Meyerm Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 17, 2014
    star 2
    Once source says The Leviathan was the only one to serve in The Republic, which defected and served as a template for star forge copies of it. Another says they saw limited use in republic hands but were phased out in favor of the cheaper hammerheads as the jedi civil war waged on. These are the possible scenarios. Any one ca be correct, but they can't all be correct:

    a. The Leviathan was the only ship of the class built by the republic. Revan's empire invaded with turncoat republic ships. Saul Karath defected with the ship, which was then copied by the star forge, rendering the turncoat vessels obsolete.

    b. The Leviathan was just one of multiple republic interdictors. Some were part of Revan's fleet when he abandoned the republic and were copied by the star forge. Revan invades with an already prepared fleet of star forge-produced interdictors. The remaining republic interdictors, the Leviathan as one of them, either defect, are captured, or destroyed, and the republic ceases production to focus on the cheaper hammerhead class.

    Either one makes sense. On one hand story a is supported by the claim that Revan's fleet was mostly turncoat vessels (at least initially), but then again, B would better explain why no other republic ship classes seem to make an appearance in sith use, The Ravager excluded. Would the Sith dismantle or sell their other ships for raw materials and parts, or use them until they're destroyed one by one? In the case scenario A, that gives about a year's time for the sith to almost completely replace their fleet.
    Last edited by Meyerm, Aug 29, 2014
  13. FTeik Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 2000
    star 5
    What they probably meant was "Executor, the first of its class of Star Dreadnought".

    And as far as the shield-generator-domes are concerned, I suggest they take a good, long look at the model.
    Last edited by Point Given, Aug 29, 2014
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  14. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6

    Can you show me a picture of the model indicating the locations of any other shield generator domes besides those two?

    The Databank calls them "communication and deflection domes" but doesn't mention there being other ones:

    http://www.starwars.com/databank/super-star-destroyer

    We can only go by what they actually wrote, not "what we think they probably meant".

    And, as mentioned, Mandator references that were in ICS: ROTS seem to have been removed for Complete Vehicles.
    Last edited by Iron_lord, Aug 29, 2014
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  15. FTeik Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 2000
    star 5
    http://www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/Xbarbican/eydc5/5r28executor.jpg

    The most obvious ones are right behind the tower.

    True, but even if Mandator is a complete goner, a quote like this is still stupid. Not only are we back at the huge empty gap between ISDs and Executors, but the moment a comic or novel or game shows an in-between design, the entire discussion starts again. The author of that text makes it almost impossible to squeeze something in for the timeframe between ROTS and TESB.

    Although reading it again, the quote doesn`t negate the existance of star cruisers and star battlecruisers ... .;)
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  16. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6

    They haven't been confirmed as being shield domes though. Could be pure sensors - with only the ones on top of the tower incorporating the shield vanes.

    That said, the Illustrated Fact File is rather firmly cemented in the Legendsverse. Maybe the "Lucasverse" will retcon some of this info.

    Indeed. And FFG does have the Praetor II in the Age of Rebellion book.

    A possible objection to the article is that they reuse the old TEGTV&V pics

    [IMG]

    (albeit in blue, with nothing labelled.)
    Last edited by Iron_lord, Aug 29, 2014
  17. AdmiralWesJanson Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2005
    star 5
    That's not an Executor-class. That's the mythical "Super-class" from WEG. *Facepalm*
  18. Tzizvvt78 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 12, 2009
    star 4
    Just a few weeks ago the AOR campaign guide appeared, with references to both the Anaxes system, the Praetor II-class and with dreadnoughts, battlecruisers and Super Star Destroyers mentioned in one sentence. Maybe that's where the disconnect is, in a potential new canon setting. The Super Star Destroyers are a special new breed of dreadnoughts, so the Mandators get bumped down, retroactively. Or were never called Star Dreadnoughts at all.

    Then again, who knows what the new Fact Files are considered as, since they're filled with Legends content.

    Disney's StarWars.com says "The Super Star Destroyer is one of the largest, most powerful Imperial vessels ever created."
    Disney's StarWars.com also says "Though, as is typical of the Empire, not even the Star Destroyer was enough to sate the Imperial hunger for displays of power. Larger vessels, such as the Super Star Destroyer, dwarf even these giants."
    So there's that. We're not back to ISD -> Executor, yet.
    Last edited by Tzizvvt78, Aug 29, 2014
  19. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    And the article does mention it:

    POLITICS OF TERROR
    Though the Emperor appeared unchallenged, he still had opponents in the Imperial Senate. The Death Star was still under construction when the first Executor-class Star Dreadnoughts were commissioned. Palpatine wished to keep their existence a secret from his enemies, so the project details were hidden under a shroud of obfuscating paperwork. The new vessels - four in total - were listed as Super-class Star Destroyers, leading to some confusion about the class name later, and their true size was grossly underestimated. After the loss of the Death Star at Yavin IV, the construction process was accelerated. The Empire needed a new symbol of terror to keep the people in line.
    Problem is - the Praetor II is now "second only to the Executor-class"

    Doesn't leave much room for Mandators.
    Last edited by Iron_lord, Aug 29, 2014
  20. Zeta1127 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 4
    This is what happens relatively obscure ships don't get fully fleshed out, they can fade into oblivion in a heartbeat when newer creative minds aren't made aware of them.
  21. FTeik Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 2000
    star 5
    Oh, come on. Both Mandator and Praetor were flashed out for the first time together on the same page of the EGtW.

    The problem of the Mandator is, there isn't a picture/model of it, you'd have to extrapolate/intrapolate(?) from the design of the Bellator.
  22. Zeta1127 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 4
    I am starting to doubt we will ever see a complete technical readout of the likes of the Vengeance-class, the Eclipse-class, the Sovereign-class, the Assertor-class, the Mandator-class, and the Bellator-class Star Dreadnoughts, the Praetor-class, the Procurator-class, and the Allegiance-class Star Battlecruisers, the Secutor-class, the Tector-class, the Dominator-class, and the Procursator-class Star Destroyers, or even the New Class Modernization Program because of the abandonment of the EU. This lack of proper technical readouts is part of the reason why the Anaxes War College System has been taken as the gospel, since no one has bothered to provide proper pictures/3D renders and/or stats.
    darthscott3457 likes this.
  23. Tzizvvt78 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 12, 2009
    star 4
    Actually, with the size given in the book, which is more like the old Saxton estimate, the Mandator could be out-scaled by the Praetor II. So the quote would indeed be correct. :p

    [IMG]
    The Bellator/Mandator shape being more needle-like, vs. the ISD-block shape of the Praetor.

    EDIT: Looking over Commander footage. The Sentinel-class is shown with container attachments like in RS II. A nice follow-up from the TCW's Nu-class variant.
    Last edited by Tzizvvt78, Aug 29, 2014
  24. King of Alsakan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 25, 2007
    star 3
    Nice to see a mention of their being projectile and energy weapons. Really sad to see the lack of Mandator references. There will always be a Legends universe at least for them to live on in.

    I really wish there would be many warship classes filling up the size ranges between the Star Destroyers and dreadnoughts. Who knows what the back story will be for the new canon, but I really hope they do away with having most warships less than a mile for 99% of the time line and then all of a sudden the Empire has Executors and Death Stars.
    Cushing's Admirer likes this.
  25. Cushing's Admirer Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2006
    star 6
    Man, I have missed this thread. [:D] Are there any real stats yet or still just guesses?
  26. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    It overshoots it a bit - Saxton's estimate was 6.9 km, and Fractalsponge went with 6.4km when creating his model.

    I'm told that in the AOR beta, it was "nearly four times as long". I wonder why they changed it?

    Mandator I is 5 times as long rather than "nearly 5 times as long" and I think the even longer (8 times as long) Mandator III was originally supposed to have first been produced before the Executors.
    Last edited by Iron_lord, Aug 29, 2014