Lit Fleet Junkie Flagship- The technical discussions of the GFFA (Capital Ships thread Mk. II)

ups

 

In addition to the Punishment that AdmiralNick22 already mentioned there is also the Diligent, which was stationed at Ryloth before heading to Jakku.

 

You would think they would have artists sit down with the writers when they come up with new ships. That was one thing about the Old-EU when it kicked off with the Thrawn trilogy. They gave Zahn all the WEG books.

 

If Star Wars is anything like most other sci-fi franchises, they probably do. I'm sure plenty of concept art exists for these new ships, but unfortunately in many cases that art is never made public.

In this case, however, I'm sure we'll see them eventually. Remember this book just came out, there's still plenty of time for these ships to be shown off, either in Ep VIII or something like a comic.

 

The Starhawk came out in the last book of this series....they should either do a collection of art designs for books every few years or post the stuff online....I mean wouldn't it be really cool if there was an official site dedicated to Star Wars? Oh...wait....there is....starwars.com....duh!

They could do new ship designs and concept art type pics of scenes from the books.

 

Reposting some of my ship thoughts from the Empire's End thread:

Spoiler

3. The Eclipse survives. As I said, I hope it turns out to be more like the Dark Empire Eclipse...yes, I know the ending description implies a regular SSD..but one can hope.

4. What we saw of the space battle in EE was well done for the most part. It goes with previously established canon that the Empire had the upper hand at first...thogh IIRC, previous canon said that was because the Empire outnumbered the New REpublic at Jakku. Empire's End states that the Empire had the upper hand simply because Ravager provided the firepower of an entire fleet. The space battle was not how Star Wars battles are typically portrayed: close range slugathons such as what we see in Revenge of the Sith and Return of the Jedi. I'll give Wendig credit for using Ravager realistically: it sits in the middle of a Star Destroyer screen while taking out New Republic ships at long range. Not only does its particle cannon have range, but even at long range they apparently must still be powerful enough to swat New Republic ships. It is what you would expect from a power source of a ship that large and shows some of the logic behind Super Star Destroyers: fair fights are the other guy's problem.

She is only taken out through a fluke. One of the SD captains breaks the Star Destroyer screen and allows a Starhawk through. That is where I had a problem though. First, I do not know why the Starhawks were so close to Punishment. Up until that point the battles were long range. However, that was not my main issue. How big are these Starhawks? It was implied they were made from regular Star Destroyers...MULTIPLE STAR DESTROYERS? Surely not just one. I do not care how upgraded those tractor beams were, I cannot believe that a single kilometer long ship could drag down Ravager. That would make tractor beam technology to seem like magic. Yes, the strength might be influence by the strength of charge but you need a large power source to get that charge...especially if you need a charge that can take down something the size of a SSD. So, I am thinking that Starhawks might be the new canon's Star Defenders.

Also, I wonder if Rax intended for the captain of the Punishment to have his breakdown. The Empire may have won if its Star Destroyer screen was not breached.

I would really like to see a story that goes more in depth into how Executor was destroyed at Endor. Perhaps SSDs are not good at close range battles?

 

Matthew Trias

RE: Starhawks & the battle of Jakku

Spoiler

It's clear that Agate's orders from Ackbar are to punch a whole in the defensive array of SD's and hit the Ravager. So basically the majority of the NR's capital ships remain in longer range engagements while the trio of Starhawks go in for a decisive action. As for the size of the Starhawk battleships, unfortunately we don't have any clear indication. I'd like to imagine them as at least being a few kilometers long, but who knows. Keep in mind that the Concord is only able to drag the Ravager down once her engines are destroyed. Without those, plus considering that the fleet is already in low orbit (and fighting Jakku's gravity), a single Starhawk manages to drag it just enough into the planets gravity to let nature do the rest.

Based on what we know, the battle unfolds as follows:

1. Empire's capital ships form defensive perimeter in low orbit, creating a tight formation around the Ravager.
2. New Republic fleet arrives, attacks from multiple angles (per Lost Stars)
3. Imperial defensive perimeter prevents Ackbar's capital ships from pressing their numerical advantage, long range duel ensues. NR starts taking losses due to firepower of SSD.
4. Ackbar orders Agate to use her trio of Starhawks to surge forward and attack Ravager.
5. Agate's seizes opening created by loss of ISD Punishment and Starhawk Amity.
6. Concord takes a pounding, realizes it's only option is to target the SSD's engines and use tractor beam.
7. On Agate's recommendation, Ackbar orders every available starfighter squadron to attack the engines. Blade Squadron is among the fighters.
8. Ravager loses her final engines, crippled Concord drags it to planets surface, both ships lost. Cue "cheering officers watch from Home One as Ackbar dips his head in tribute to his friend Agate."
9. Devoid of protection from the Ravager, the remaining Star Destroyers crumble under sudden surge of Ackbar's fleet.
10. As the Imperial fleet is destroyed, some captains mimic Agate's tactic and drag down damaged NR ships with them (see MC80 Freedom's Dawn)

--Adm. Nick

 

I think there is thankfully some amount vagueness with regards to the number of Executor's via the Complete Locations and other sources. IMO, the line in Life Debt was referring to Executors and maybe, hopefully, a one off class with the Eclipse. Between the mentions of Mandator's, other mentions of dreadnoughts in other novels, Praetor's, Secutor's, and as you mention, the line in Complete Locations, that there are a few classes larger than a regular Star Destroyer out there. Plus the line about there being 12 or more Executor's in Complete Locations nicely mirrors, what Jason Fry had written in EGTW with regards to Rebllion/New Republic not really knowing how many were out there, constructed in secrecy.

Finished up Empire's End, it was a pretty decent battle. Felt like more of the book could have been dedicated to it. Wish there could of been a lot of different warship classes used instead of just the usual handful. Of course I wish it would have been a much larger battle, but I wasn't expecting anything else going into reading the book, it is more about the characters in the end in these novels.

 

Spoiler

The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of Executor being a long range ship. She's large so she has the power output for particle beams that can still deal significant damage at long distances. However, if she is designed for long range combat that means that the equipment and positioning of her guns may be optimally designed for combat at great distances but not so much for short range combat. A SSD may even have a slower recharge rate for her guns.

If any of that were true, it would go a long way toward giving the Rebels the advantage at Endor when they get into Executor's face.

 

Re-posting from Rebels thread. Behold a scene from an upcoming episode of Rebels, seen by some viewers on certain carriers of Disney XD:



x1 MC80 Home One-type star cruiser
x1 Quasar Fire-class carrier
x5 Nebulon-B escort frigate
x8 CR90 Corellian corvettes
x4 Hammerhead-class corvettes
x2 GR75 medium transports

The Alliance Fleet, 2 BBY. 2 years before Rogue One.

--Adm. Nick

 

vncredleader OOOOOOOOOOH....THIS IS PROBABLY GONNA BE IN THE FINALE AND WE GOTTA GET THROUGH SOME MORE FILLER SADLY (WHO KNOWS BUT STILL) OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHH.

 

There are 2 Nebulon Bs at Scarif right? Around 5 or so CR90s 3 Hammerheads, and no Quasar. The Rebels might want to say good bye to a sizable chunk of their fleet.

 

The fleet assembled for Scarif, per the novelization, was just the ships already at Yavin and whatever was near Scarif already. Remember- the fleet is still be assembled at Scarif. Plus there are other Alliance task forces and bases around the galaxy. Of course, the stuff at Yavin was probably one of the largest assemblies at this point.

--Adm. Nick

 

Considering Scarif is, like you said, one of the largest assemblies of the Rebel fleet to that point, the Rebels fleet can't grow by too much more, can it? I would think they wouldn't want to make the fleet in Rogue One look smaller in comparison...

Perhaps we see Thrawn punk a sizable portion of the Rebels fleet in the finale?

 

I assume the survivors of this battle merge with Bail's people and that is the main group at Yavin. The Phoenix squadron is based close to Yavin and Mon Calamari so I would think the Alliance's active offensive ships in that area of the galaxy are a mix of those three major groups. My guess is that some of the GR75s, the Dorean Gunships, and Green Squadron are from nearby bases or something that rendezvous with them. All the rest of the ships at Scarif are from Yavin which is made up of a Mon Calamari ship that are not on standby in the Telaris system (That being the Profundity) and the remnants of the Phoenix Squadron which seems to have merged with Bail's cell. Calling it, this battle is a huge loss and this is why there are only two Hammerheads, 3 Nebulon Bs, and no A-wings (there is one on Yavin but not a full squadron from what we can tell) by Scarif. For the sake of being more closely connected to RO, I think that we will see exactly the amount of ships that we see at Scarif make it out. So while they could logically have all the Nebulons make it out, they will have two get destroyed so that it is the exact same group as in RO.

I wonder what the fate of that MC80 will be. It could get destroyed but I kinda like the idea that it makes it and returns to Telaris prompting the Profundity being sent out to assist the Yavin group. Like such a heavy loss (they are going up against Thrawn get ready for tragedy) necessitates having Raddus involved directly to assist the main group of ships. If he becomes the Sato of S4 I will be so glad. But like with actual scenes unlike sato.

 

It's worth noting that the battle scenes we've seen in previews for Rebels haven't shown the MC80. Furthermore, they show fewer frigates, fewer corvettes, and have Dornean gunships. I'm trying to find the screen cap that was posted on Twitter several weeks back, but it appears that the final battle doesn't include all of the other Rebel ships we see in the shot I posted above. It's more than likely that Phoenix Squadron is augmented by a few frigates and Dornean gunships, but not the entire fleet.

We already know that the fleet in RO wasn't the entire fleet, plus we know that other cells have Rebel warships too. I think you're taking things way to literally to say that each ship we see has to be in RO or has to have been destroyed prior.

It's a big galaxy.

--Adm. Nick

 

intresting, if we will see some profundity class cruisers in the other Star wars Rebels seasons?

 

I'm wondering if the MC80 will in fact be Home One.

 

Yeah, considering that Mon Mothma is with the Rebels, it would be cool to learn that this is Home One. Having it and the Profundity be among the first battle ready Mon Cal cruisers makes a lot of sense.

--Adm. Nick

 

Home One means: Ackbar

 

Yeah big galaxy, not like random droids are secretly built by major characters the whole time, or supporting characters turn out to have met other unconnected supporting characters.

But yeah I don't mean that each ship here has to be destroyed by RO to fit, just that I bet that those 3 Nebulon Bs will come from this group here. Even if the other 2 just head back to telaris I think that they will still use this as a way to have more of a connection between this and RO. It makes perfect sense that these 5 just leave and go to other areas but more likely for this show, they will directly connect it and have those 3 Nebulons from RO be 3 of these 5.. I kinda hope they will show that there are more fleets out there and other frigates rotating around, but I think they will go for a more direct connection between this and RO. Sure they don't have to be destroyed but I assume they will want to specifically explain on screen why only 2 Hammerheads are at Scarif and why the fleet present there only had 5 Nebulons. Sure us Fleet Junkies know about other fleets and Telaris, but I doubt the mainstream audience dose. Then again the 7 year olds who watched RO likely did not count the amount of Hammerheads.......they where missing out if so cause that battle was Where's Waldo but IN SPACE!!!!

Those other ships don't even have to be destroyed here, but I think the Rebels writers will want to directly show the fleet from RO get built up to. Like have either 2 Nebulons get destroyed here or leave before the battle or something so that when S4 happens there are 3 Nebulons (or more which then leave or get destroyed in S4 in time for RO) I don't think each ship HAS to be destroyed prior, all I am saying is that in some way shape or form rebels will directly build to the fleet over Scarif. They love them some synergy between projects and I doubt they would pass on having this be how the Yavin group got 3 Nebulons by Scarif. Same goes for Hammerheads and Quasar. It is easy and logical to have it be that the other 2 are just at Telaris or idk Cerea, but knowing Rebels they will have it be that they have been destroyed by RO in order to explain why they are not there in a more dramatic way. Only 3 Nebulons at scarif? Well you can have them just come from other cells and these not be those same ones, or you can have them be the exact same ones cause synergy.

I would have them be different ones cause I prefer showing how wide spread the fleet is, but I don't know if they will go that direction. However this is all semantics till we get to the episode.

So do yinz think that we will be seeing U-Wings some time S4? If the Ghost is stationed there throughout the season we are bound to see quite a few.

 

vncredleader

I just prefer to expand, not limit the universe. Don't get me wrong- the Rebel Fleet between Rebels Season 3 (2 BBY) and RO (0 BBY) shouldn't be overly large. But if there is one thing the new canon has shown us, it's that the Rebellion was far larger and better equipped than the old EU showed. I'm all for the Hammerhead-class corvettes to be the sort of direct connection you mention above, because they play such a critical role in RO. However, it cheapens the effect to have that done for all ships. Heck, that fleet shot shows four Hammerheads, so there is already one more in that particular fleet than we knew of. That isn't surprising though, as Alderaan was probably allowing those ships to be captured left and right as a means to covertly support the Alliance.

I'm very intrigued to learn more about the Nebulon-B frigates, especially because we don't know their back history yet in the new canon. Are they still captured Imperial ships? Did they come from Chandrila's defense fleet? Are they surplus ships from the Clone Wars? I hope we learn more about them soon!

--Adm. Nick

 

Yeah I am with you 100%. I want to show how big the fleet is I just don't know if Rebels will go there. They have felt very small thus far to me in terms of the Alliance's resources. Maybe this will be how they show just how big the fleet really is. Oh man they should end season 3 with a shot of the Telaris fleet like Empire's ending. Just Mon Calamari ship after Mon Calamari ship.

I wonder if Nebulons will be given a mix of your ideas. Like they were being designed as medical ships for the GAR but the war ended and the Imps did not want medical ships so they got a limited production or they where made instead for civilian usage. Like Chandrila and other planets used them just as medical ships but they could easily be turned back into being battle ready via some modding.

Much like the BR-23 courier.

 

My my. Dave Filoni must have been saving his budget allowance all season for this. Most impressive.