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Lit Fleet Junkie Flagship- The technical discussions of the GFFA (Capital Ships thread Mk. II)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by AdmiralWesJanson, Sep 12, 2005.

  1. AdmiralWesJanson

    AdmiralWesJanson Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    May 23, 2005
    The problems with the Victory were threefold- it was slow in sublight, it had a missile heavy armament, and it was built with Rendilli.

    After the Clone Wars, much of the combat needed was no longer to engage similar sized capital ships in fleet actions, but to chase down pirates and rebels, using mainly smaller, faster, designs.
    Heavy concussion missiles are also more specialized to kill captial ships and orbital bombardment, but require more expensive and complex logistics than reactor fuel and turbolaser parts.
    Finally, Lira Wessex and KDY had the political clout to make the Imperator the favored design, even though it was less efficient or reliable than the Victory, it hit a saturation point where commonality of logistics for KDY designs and parts plus economy of scale made it relatively easier to build, maintain, and operate than the VSD.
     
  2. JediBatman

    JediBatman Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 3, 2015
    That's the Watsonian explanation of what's wrong with the victory class. The Doylist explantion is that the Victory class looks too similar to the Imperial class (at least at a glance). So illustrators never used it and instead went with more visually distinct or iconic Imperial ships designs.
     
  3. comradepitrovsky

    comradepitrovsky Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 5, 2017
    Using the VenStar for the Strikefast for instance...
     
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  4. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    Speaking of different fighter designs and Nebulon docking bays- folks seem to be trying to squeeze in X-Wings or TIEs somehow but maybe it was simply designed for smaller fightercraft?

    An A-Wing, V-Wing or Jedi Starfighter (either one) would seem to fit in there much easier (not as wide as an X-Wing's wingspan, nor as tall as a TIE's panels or the need for a rack, etc).

    Since Neb B's aren't brand new themselves, it would make sense that they weren't designed to hold the newest fighters (though obviously the Rebels would use what they could). And not being meant to function as carriers, heavier/larger fighters (or bombers) like the ARC-170 or Z-95 weren't factored in from a versatility standpoint (or perhaps it was felt that the docking rings provided sufficient adaptability for those situations?).
     
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  5. vncredleader

    vncredleader Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 28, 2016
    I get your point but the Nebulon was mae to be an Imp vessle so its hangars should be able to accommodate TIEs better.
     
  6. Vthuil

    Vthuil Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 3, 2013
    Doesn't help with Legends, but in the new canon it's no longer at all certain that the Nebulon-B was designed to be Imperial.
     
  7. vncredleader

    vncredleader Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 28, 2016
    Oh yeah we still don't have a backstory for it in the new canon. I want that soon
     
  8. Star_Desperado

    Star_Desperado Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Mar 5, 2017
    I never liked the Victory class. The neat little greebled bridge is alright, but I always hated those "wings" on the side, which is ironic because that's just about the only obvious visual difference between it and an ISD. I wonder if we'll get the Praetor II; they've been pulling a lot from concept art recently, and that design stems from early designs for Vader's Executor. Maybe it'll wind up as Snoke's rumored spaceship in TLJ.
     
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  9. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    Even if it were to be an Imperial vessel, it could a post-Clone Wars, pre-TIE, V-wing-era vessel.

    And with them being slightly older (but not Clone Wars-era-old) than other Imperial vessels, might explain how it was easier for the Rebels to acquire so many.
     
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  10. Chris0013

    Chris0013 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 21, 2014
    @Star_Desperado

    If you have not already...check out http://fractalsponge.net/. You may very well rethink your opinion of the Victory. He also did an amazing interpretation of the Dreadnought heavy cruiser among many others.
     
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  11. Star_Desperado

    Star_Desperado Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Mar 5, 2017
    Now this opinion is gonna make a lot of people really mad: I HATE Ansel Hsiao's modelling. His original designs, his reinterpretations, his lighting, his over-greebling, the stark soulless nature of it all really rubs me the wrong way and makes me think "this isn't Star Wars. I see a Star Destroyer there but it's not Star Wars." Even the shameless unoriginality of the designs of The Force Awakens had some life to them.

    Rant aside, the only thing I dislike about the Victory is the "wings," if you removed them it'd be hotter than the ISD, but as I said the issue if you do that is you have something almost totally indistinct from the ISD which would negate the utility of the design in the first place unless it's just an earlier edition of the same class.
     
  12. comradepitrovsky

    comradepitrovsky Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 5, 2017
    It does seem soulless, I'll agree to that.
     
  13. JediBatman

    JediBatman Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 3, 2015
    See I LIKE Fractal's work, and I still dislike the Victory class for how similar it looks to the Imperial class. I use Star Wars art for desk top back grounds, and FFG has a couple Victory class images for Armada. Maybe its just me, but in all of them it took me a few seconds to realize what I was looking at was not the standard Star Destroyer.
     
  14. Star_Desperado

    Star_Desperado Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Mar 5, 2017
    I could forgive most of it if it had a single speck of creative spark, but Hsiao's renders are more lifeless than the untextured 3d models Pablo Hidalgo showed off of the Rogue One Hammerhead and Ghost at Celebration. Those are nothing but smooth grey phongs, but they manage to be more pleasant to look at.
    https://twitter.com/pablohidalgo/status/852661868170706944/photo/1
     
    Jamie1001 likes this.
  15. AdmiralNick22

    AdmiralNick22 Retired Fleet Admiral star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    May 28, 2003
    Armada art is STUNNING:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    --Adm. Nick
     
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  16. Star_Desperado

    Star_Desperado Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Mar 5, 2017
    damn straight it is Nick[​IMG]
     
  17. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    Another reason VSDs probably will remain sidelined is we now have ISDs capable of atmospheric flight/hovering, so the main unique feature of the VSD (the wings giving it some form of atmo capability that the ISDs originally lacked) is negated.
     
  18. Tzizvvt78

    Tzizvvt78 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 12, 2009
    o_O
     
  19. Star_Desperado

    Star_Desperado Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Mar 5, 2017
    Tzizvvt78
    Did you see the link I posted or did it now show up? Pablo Hidalgo showed some beautiful renders of the Hammerhead and the Ghost from Rebels and their visual modifications to fit into Rogue One.
     
  20. Daneira

    Daneira Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 30, 2016
    That's pretty harsh. Just because you don't like something doesn't mean it was designed with no creativity. And regardless of anyone's subjective opinion of the designs, it certainly takes a lot of talent to make such high quality realistic images.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  21. vncredleader

    vncredleader Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 28, 2016
    I wonder how long they where used if they are Imp ships. I mean the Alliance got its hands on quite a few functional (or at least intact) ones just by Yavin. I assume they where around for sometime if there are that many being mothballed and not melted down and reused. Then again it is possible they where in someones defense fleet. I had a theory a while back that they are actually Chandrila's ships from right at the end of the Clone Wars or right after. It explains why we never seen Imps using them, why they are easy for the Alliance to grab, but also are not super numerous like say mothballed Venators would be.
     
  22. JABoomer

    JABoomer Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 2009
    Have we ever seen large turrets on a Mon Cal cruiser, or are their turbolaser either relatively small or contained within the hull and fired through a port?

    The reason I ask is if a Mon Cal cruiser had fore/aft turbolaser turrets on the top and bottom of its hull, it would look a lot like a double sided battleship of Earth.
     
  23. Star_Desperado

    Star_Desperado Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Mar 5, 2017
    JABoomer
    we don't see any explicit, obvious weapons batteries on the mon cal ships in ROTJ, but their models have numerous locations and greebles that could be, and the Complete Vehicles cross sections shows turbolaser batteries hidden in the bumps and bulges on the hull, with hatches that slide open to expose them

    we do see numerous turrets and cannons on the Profundity in Rogue One though
     
  24. Tzizvvt78

    Tzizvvt78 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 12, 2009
    Yes.

    I fail to see how any of those are better. There's very little detail compared to Ansel's designs, which are made piece by piece and put together like the ILM method of kitbashing.
     
    King of Alsakan likes this.
  25. slybrarian

    slybrarian Jedi Knight

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2017
    I quite like his smaller designs, basically anything below an ISD, but the 'dreadnoughts' are pretty much all over-the-top messes, especially compared to the only super star destroyer seen on-screen.