Lit Fleet Junkie Flagship- The technical discussions of the GFFA (Capital Ships thread Mk. II)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by AdmiralWesJanson, Sep 12, 2005.

  1. Chris0013 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2014
    star 4
    @Fire Dog

    I'm in total agreement about larger ships for the rebels. Whatever happened to the Dauntless and Liberator class ships. Make only one of them a Sorosuub design though and the other from another species/manufacturer. Let the Rebel Fleet look more like a conglomeration of ships of all sizes and makes/models than a bunch of Mon Cal ships supported by a bunch of frigates and corvettes.

    As well...show piracy, defections and outright ship theft for how they come over.
    Last edited by Chris0013, Aug 3, 2017
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  2. AdmiralNick22 Fleet Admiral of Literature

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    The Corellians have been suspiciously unused to date, though I suspect that is because we'll be finally seeing the world in the Han Solo movie. We know that there was a Corellian rebel cell in the new canon, plus it was an early member of the New Republic, contributing warships like the assault frigate Redeemer. Corellians seem to be pretty active in the Alliance, though I'll confess I'm bummed that we haven't seen more of them.

    I'd argue that the Corellian rebel cell pre-Alliance was probably chalk full of cool ships piloted by hotshot smugglers, I hope we get to see them one day!

    --Adm. Nick
  3. Star_Desperado Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2017
    star 2
    I agree that we need more middling ship sizes.

    Rebels get:
    Dornean/GR75 - ~80m
    Hammerhead/CR90 - ~120-150m
    Pelta/Nebulon - ~300m
    MC75/Liberty - ~1200m
    Home One - ~1900m

    look at that huge power gap and Imperials are even worse with TWO power gaps:
    Gozanti - ~60m
    Arquitens - ~250m
    Quasar Fire - ~450m
    Interdictor - ~1000-1200m
    ISD - 1600m
    Executor - 19000m

    there's a few namedropped other types elsewhere but nothing we really get a clear picture of on screen, we need more ships in the 500-1000 meter range, for rebels at least, and maybe a couple good shots of "minor" super star destroyers like 2000-3000m long that the Rebellion has to face before Darth Vader brings his big one to bear
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  4. Commander_Andersen Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 10, 2004
    star 1
    Perfect opportunity to bring in Assault Frigates (the various Mk. 1s and then Mk. 2) for the Rebellion and to visually depict battlecruisers like Pride of Tarlandia for the Empire.
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  5. Star_Desperado Jedi Knight

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    Mar 5, 2017
    star 2
    Oh and I forgot the recently canonized Raider corvette which is presumably about 150m
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  6. Fire Dog Jedi Youngling

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    Mar 1, 2017
    Fantasy Flights Armada has a pretty good scaling if you take a look at the side by side
  7. Chris0013 Jedi Master

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    May 21, 2014
    star 4
    I would get rid of the Mk I....go only with the Mk II as the Assault Frigate in the Nu-Canon.
  8. JABoomer Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2009
    star 2
    I think the Neutron Star-class bulk cruiser would fit the bill perfectly for what you're discussing, providing the Rebel Alliance with a size of ship to operate in between the smaller corvettes/frigates and the larger Mon Cal cruisers. It's not exactly formidable in any specific area, but they should be cheap to operate.
  9. Chris0013 Jedi Master

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    May 21, 2014
    star 4
    I would be fine with that...as long as they made it competent...not stellar....but a capable jack of all trades.
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  10. Commander_Andersen Jedi Master

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    Apr 10, 2004
    star 1
  11. Chris0013 Jedi Master

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    May 21, 2014
    star 4
    My issue on the AF MkI is .... why do all that work when all you need to do is get a slave rig system and put up some serious firewalls. And yes...I know that slave rigging came after AFs in the EU.

    I agree on all the background ships from both RoTJ and ESB. Get a couple interns into the warehouse and get detailed pics of all angles and put them out there. Do something like what they did with the What's the Story thing they did years ago. Get backgrounds and such for all the designs.
  12. vncredleader Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 28, 2016
    star 4
    Yeah I am a bit disappointed though I like the idea that they are sorta like Garm's cell was where they where on their own taking on the Empire more aggressively, only in the new canon they where officially a part of the Alliance and much larger. I mean maybe them and the Sullastans are focusing their efforts elsewhere or something hence them not being involved in stuff like RO, that or they are at Telaris.
  13. Chris0013 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2014
    star 4
    Does anyone else really not like the "limited amount" we seem to get with some ships?? U-Wing...limited production run so would not be that many. TIE Striker...prototype so limited amount.

    Even going back to the Old EU with the Firespray....only 1 in existence since Jango stole it and destroyed the others that the local police had....I can only imagine the cost of getting parts for that thing.
  14. Vialco Jedi Grand Master

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    Mar 6, 2007
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    I wonder why Raddus and the flag officers didn't try to escape the Profundity in a shuttle? Surely the flagship must carry a few. Escape pods are out of the question given the expanding fireball of Scarif and the Death Star in orbit.

    As soon as the battlestation arrived, the Aliiance had no choice but to retreat. But it's a nice touch that Raddus doesn't immediately order a retreat after getting the plans, but lingers until after Scarif is immolated. He wanted to try and extract Jyn and the others. He only orders the jump after the Death Star fires, and even then takes a moment to wish them well.


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  15. Chris0013 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2014
    star 4
    Neither Scarif....nor Jedha...were destroyed. They used a single reactor blast on each with only took out a limited area of the planets.
  16. Vialco Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2007
    star 4

    [IMG]
    Last edited by Vialco, Aug 3, 2017
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  17. Nobody145 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 9, 2007
    star 5
    I'm not sure a shuttle would have had much chance of escaping Scarif, though I'm mostly guessing there were still some TIE fighters around. Basically, I mean a corvette like the Tantive IV has a better chance of surviving than a shuttle (well, unless that shuttle was being piloted by someone like Luke Skywalker, but aside from that, a shuttle would be an easy target).

    Although I still find the Tantive's presence to be a bit silly- not sure why they would keep it in the bay rather than having it fight alongside the rest of the fleet. And having Leia there personally was dangerous too, as Mon Mothma and Bail Organa were also busy with other business rather than going to Scarif personally. I know it was mainly for the sake of a cameo (and the lines about data discs and transmissions beamed, etc.), but still.

    I could see Raddus trying to focus on the defense, even as the Profundity was carved up, to try to give the other ships time to escape (especially the Tantive IV), rather than trying to escape himself. Between the Devastator and the Death Star, and the poor shape the Rebel fleet was in, its a minor miracle the Tantive IV escaped (for a time).

    Though I always kind of wish that maybe the Profundity's bridge could have flown off by itself so that Raddus could fight another day (kind of like what Home One has, forget if that was old EU or nuEU), but even then something like that would probably have been shot down.
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  18. AdmiralNick22 Fleet Admiral of Literature

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    Raddus, I am firmly convinced, refused to evacuate the Profundity until Leia was safely away, ditto the rest of his fleet. In the case of the former, the longer Raddus stays on the ship, the better a chance resources will be devoted to trying to capture the top Rebel admiral. In the case of the latter, the Profundity needed to protect the fleets smaller ships to buy them time to escape. We see the Devastator target the MC75 almost exclusively (save the frigate split in half, but honestly that was just in the way of hitting the Star Cruiser), so I'm sure a handful more escort ships and fighters made the jump back to Yavin IV.

    I'm sure there is an MC80 Raddus serving in the post-Scarif Rebel fleet, or the later New Republic fleet. ;)

    --Adm. Nick
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  19. King of Alsakan Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 25, 2007
    star 4
    It would be nice to see some of the Legends, or new, designs fill in some of those gaps. At least the Victory, Secutor, and Praetor-classes are out there as well. Wouldn't mind seeing some big Corellian ships added to both sides, and for me the more the merrier when it comes to new Star Destroyers, Battlecruisers, and Dreadnoughts :)
  20. seeker_two Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2003
    star 3
    Even some modified Acclimators like the Rand Elliptic would fill in some of the class gaps.....
  21. Daneira Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 30, 2016
    star 3
    Isn't the Rand Eliptic still technically canon because of Biggs and/or Hobbie's Databank entries?


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  22. Fire Dog Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 1, 2017
    Hey guys, how do I share an image on here that I made?
    Last edited by Fire Dog, Aug 5, 2017
  23. Chris0013 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2014
    star 4

    The ship name is...but ths ship class is still up in the air. I wish they would make an animated movie of the "Mutiny on The Rand Ecliptic" to give us the definitive nu-canon version of what happend and give us a ship class for it...either something new...of tweak the Acclamator model as a Mk III designed as a carrier instead of a troop ship based on the one in the Darklighter storyline

    However the version of the RE in the comic is not an Acclamator but an Imperial II class frigate.

    left click on the pic you have....and select copy image location. On the post window tehre is a small picture that looks like a tree. Click on that paste the link in the field that pops up and click insert.
    Last edited by Chris0013, Aug 6, 2017
  24. Thrawn McEwok Co-Author: Essential Guide to Warfare

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    For those of you who remember me, you can blame my Mon Cal counterpart for me showing up here... ;)

    For those of who you don't - don't take the sidebar too seriously; I've been out of it for a little while, so I'm speaking personally, and talking entirely on a fanboy level... :p

    On the topic of what size Rebel ships should be, I'm happy enough with the Alliance having mostly small ships, and something like the Phoenix Nest being a big player because of the number of useful snubs aboard (has anyone established how many fighters she toted, either officially or by observation? From the orbital clash with Thrawn, which is the first reference point that comes to mind, I'd guess around a dozen double-seater Y-wings and two dozen A-wings at a minimum...).

    The one criticism I'd have is that the Rebels aren't always (IMHO) using their ships intelligently... a lot of their inventory is more suited for raiding bases and convoys and snacking on things like the odd Gozanti, or else maintaining a "fleet in being" which poses a threat by existence rather than engagement, leaving the attacks on bigger Imperial problems primarily to dedicated - yet equally asymmetrical - units like the double-seater Y-wing and the B-wing...

    (Some of you will already know my sympathies in this, of course, though the ideas involved were already there in the old canon, in the voices of Ral'Rai Muvunc and Adar Tallon, and to a certain extent Etan A'baht, Gial Ackbar and a certain Chiss Imperial, to say nothing of what we see at Yavin)...

    In other thoughts, I really like what REBELS has been doing, especially with the WEG/Bantam ships - the biggest kick for me is probably seeing such a superbly-realised version of the Vindicator, with the bridge, engineering bay, and so many indicative hull details, but the bulk cruiser / carrier runs a close second. Beyond that, I think details like the Nebbie-B bridge - a deliberate Inexpugnable-class homage? - are awesome (Dodonna seems to have a smaller "flag bridge" on the Vanguard, too - does anyone know where that is?), and as a broadly "new" design, the Hammerhead works pretty well for me (rugged, adaptable, characterful, STAR WARS, and any ship that even vaguely homages the Hearst is good for me)...

    Of course, me being me, I aim for a level of continuity-reconciliation that even Sinre would consider obsessive - given that the Immobilizer seems to have just ten quad lasers, but their fire arcs correspond to the WEG gun stats (5 port, 5 starboard, 10 forward), I wonder if this is something we can use to make sense of some other WEG stats, too...

    All of which leads me to a question - has anyone been doing scaling of the ships in REBELS? From some very crude squinting at the hangar bay, it looks to me that the Immobilizer might be nearer 900m than 600m... or else those Star Destroyers are all 900m ones rather than the 1.6km ones we see in Rogue One. ;)

    -- The Imperial Ewok
    Last edited by Thrawn McEwok, Aug 6, 2017
  25. Thrawn McEwok Co-Author: Essential Guide to Warfare

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    Urgh. Can someone edit out my double post (and this note too?)...

    -- The Imperial Ewok
  26. Star_Desperado Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2017
    star 2
    900m ISDs? Even the Venator was 1100-1200. At any rate, our Interdictors in canon are now much larger than they were before, at least as big as a Venator.

    As to the Quasar Fire, I'm pretty sure it must be able to fit at least 14 fighters per hangar, (of which there are four), 8 in overhead racks and four on the floor, giving us a capacity of 56 fighters.

    And what are the Vindicator, bulk carrier, and Inexpugnable referring to? I don't remember seeing a second bridge for the Nebulon on Rebels.

    Show Spoiler

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  27. Thrawn McEwok Co-Author: Essential Guide to Warfare

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    First, another general question I also meant to ask, which is open to everyone - the new CGI ISD-I shown at Scarif seems to have some extra "surface detail" (triple turrets on the axial positions in front of the superstructure, what seem to be a "soft retool" of the flank turrets, etc.); has anyone provided a detailed analysis of its guns, either officially or fan-driven?

    Or the RotJ-type "ISD-II" is much smaller than we thought it was. [face_laugh]

    One way or another, whether we scale up the Immobilizer hull or scale down the normal "ISD-II" type, it seems like we end up with something pointy and Imperial in the ~1km size bracket... :p

    I'm really just being playful here, especially by suggesting that if we hold the Immobilizer at ~600m then what we think of as the "ISD-II" seems close to ~900m and can thus be identified as the old Victory-class. ;) To be honest, the sizes in the cartoon don't always seem to match up with the sizes indicated elsewhere - didn't the VenStars in TCW come out very small when they were bridge-scaled? - and that isn't a particular problem for me, but I do like solutions that include as much material as possible, and I like to know what's out there...

    So if there's a serious question in here, I'm curious if anyone's done any scaling of the REBELS ships - I've been wondering that for a while and not doing anything about it, but when our resident Ackbar-homage nudged me to participate again, this thread seemed like the obvious place to ask...

    I'm pretty sure it's able to fit four-plus-eight in each of its bays, but that doesn't mean it does (a Yorktown-class carrier could carry sixteen B-25 Mitchells on the open deck, but that didn't mean it did so in normal circumstances)...

    As far as I can see, there are eight "rack slots" per hangar, originally designed for TIEs, but the second pair of slots is empty in that screengrab you shared, so there are only six A-wings in that hangar. The same sequence shows three Y-wings taking off, apparently arranged in an L-shaped group on the deck, with no evidence of one in the aft port-side position. That's how I got 24 A-wings and 12 Y-wings, which is a number that divides neatly into twelve-plane "squadron" units (even if they're all sub-units in the enlarged Phoenix Squadron)... and there may be reasons why they don't fill up the other spaces (for example, adding the Y-wings on deck may make it desireable not to "overcrowd" the hangar, and/or they may want to allow a "maintenance slot" on deck and room for every plane in the hangar to be moved there if required)....

    So I'd agree with you on the inference that the full theoretical number of snubs that can be parked aboard the bulk cruiser is four Y-wings and eight A-wings per hangar, but if there's any evidence to show that Phoenix Squadron can and do pack in that full theoretical number (making its punching capability even more impressive), I'd be interested to know about it... :D

    You also have me wondering about TIEs now - the implication is that the racks can carry eight ordinary TIEs per hangar, or 32 in total, but would TIE Bombers or TIE Interceptors fit in in the same number? In Homecoming, eight TIE Bombers seemed to be carried in the front row of "rack slots", and their longer hulls might prevent the second row from being used... [face_thinking]

    All pre-reboot terminology (I'm not really keeping up with all the changes). Vindicator is the class name for the hull to which grav-wells are added for the Immobilizier. Inexpugnable-class is an ancient Old Republic design (originating in the Knights of the Old Republic comic book) with a bridge layout rather similar to the one given to the Nebulon-B in REBELS - triangular front, big windows, holoprojector and desks; if it's a deliberate homage, I thought it was a nice touch, and even if it's not, I like the accidental resonance. And by "bulk cruiser / carrier" I simply mean the Quasar Fire class, those being its two "traditional" designations....

    You're right - the close shots of Dodonna (and the trick of the angle at the right-hand side on your screencap) made it seem to me that the bridge he was standing on was much narrower and more compact than the "main bridge" - I thought it was a dedicated "flag bridge", but looking again I see that it's the same "set" seen from different "camera angles"...

    That answers that question. :D

    - The Imperial Ewok
    Last edited by Thrawn McEwok, Aug 7, 2017