Clone Wars For Discussion of Old TCW episodes...

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by CT-867-5309, Nov 19, 2012.

  1. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 5
    Look no further!

    Since all the old episode threads are buried, I think we could use one general thread for discussing older episodes. If you want to discuss an old episode and don't want to dig up the specific thread, come here.

    I recently checked my DVR and to my surprise it was almost full. I saw a huge folder of like 40 TCW episodes and realized I forgot to alter my settings for TCW. I was just going to delete them all, but I saw a few gems and a few I had no memory of so I decided to have a mini-marathon to see how I would respond.

    Fortunately for me, I have a local channel that broadcasts old TCW episodes, mostly stuff from S1. The oldest episode I had was "Rookies", so that's what I started with. I have to say, I really enjoyed it. Here are my ramblings:

    The first thing that jumped out at me is how much it felt like a war. I don't know what it was, maybe it's because the war was still relatively young, but I think it's because of the detail and focus. All the characters are just really tense, in later episodes our heroes kinda just go through the motions, like they were a cast doing the 1000th performance of the same play.

    Grievous' voice stood out as at least somewhat normal, as if the VA was playing it straight instead of hamming it up as he does later.

    The Commando Droids - what a fantastic debut. They come out looking very intimidating and perform very efficiently. They actually come off as fairly intelligent, showing actual reasoning and awareness of the situation. The droids actually do a decent job of trying to stall Cody and Rex, it's just that there was no dissuading them. After Rex and Cody land and the droids' cover is blown, the droids almost immediately blow up the clones' shuttle with grenades....you know, like actual commandos. That kind of logic, destroying the enemies ship so they can't escape and blow your plans, may seem simple but it's leaps ahead of what we usually see.

    After the Commandos blow it, the B1s are sent in and, surprise, aren't completely helpless. The B1s show up, discover the clones....and what does the leader say? "Clones! Get'em!" As he should. The B1s simply march on the clones, overwhelm them with numbers and force the clones to close the blast doors and retreat. Once the droids are through the doors, they open fire immediately and once again overwhelm the clones with sheer numbers and force them to retreat. THIS IS PERFECT. Many droids are lost, but they just keep coming. The droids miss a lot, but to be fair they are the bad guys and the good guys often have character shields. This is how you do battle droids. The clones were suitably hardcore in this episode, but it's so nice when the droids put up a fight.

    I'd like to bring up one last thing that may slip by most, and that's Grievous' standard retreat. At first glance, you might think he's just a coward, but I saw a lot more. When the fleet of Venators show up, Grievous says "We're outgunned" before he calls for the retreat. Despite the fact that Grievous had more ships, he was actually right, he was outgunned because though he had the numerical advantage the Republic had the advantage in strength due to the Venator's being significantly more powerful than the Munificent-class frigates Grievous had with him. On top of being outgunned, the CIS offensive was based on surprise, that's why they took the Rishi outpost in the first place. With the element of surprise completely blown and momentum lost, there was no reason to push the engagement. Grievous wasn't being cowardly, he made the proper decision.

    I could also point out that on Earth that "preserve the fleet" has been the first rule for Admirals for hundreds of years now. For centuries, navies have been extremely cautious, hoping to avoid major engagements and instead focus on sea denial, blockading, commerce raiding and the like. But in Star Wars massive battleships seem to be relatively disposable, so I guess this line of thinking need not apply. Remember: Even the great Admiral Ackbar immediately thought to retreat upon falling into the Empire's trap at Endor. If Calrissian hadn't insisted, Ackbar would have retreated. Was Ackbar a coward?

    The only remotely critical thing I have to say about this episode is that the one liners were kinda cheesy (but not awful) and I'm not a fan of spamming classic Star Wars lines like "I've got a bad feeling about this".

    "Rookies" imo deserves a 10/10.

    /wall of text

    MODS: If there's already a thread for this, go ahead and drop the link and lock. I know we have the TCW general discussion thread, but that's more dedicated toward current news. Old episodes are pretty much never discussed there.
  2. GGrievous Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2005
    star 5
    /thread
    Mzukiller likes this.
  3. Legolas Skywalker Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 6
    Rookies was awesome, the debut of Fives
  4. Dan_Grievous_Tikkes_Fan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 4
    Nice thread. It is nice to remind ourselves of the awesomeness that TCW used to be in episodes like Ambush, Lair of Grievous, Liberty on Ryloth, Trespass, The Deserter, The Zillo Beast and many many others.
  5. Legolas Skywalker Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 6
    and awesome episodes with Anakin, Obi-Wan and Rex :p ;)
  6. Dan_Grievous_Tikkes_Fan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 4
    There are those. Not as awesome but still there. :D
  7. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 5
    I've wanted to talk about old episodes since I first registered back on the old IGN forums.

    Every year we see noobs pop up and talk about how they just got into the show. They always do a marathon to catch up and end up making one off threads titled "I just watched this episode". So why not have a place for them?

    I've been watching old episodes so I'll probably post thoughts on them later. Or not. We'll see.
  8. Dan_Grievous_Tikkes_Fan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 4
    Good call my friend. I usually love how people who just get into the show without watching the older classics, go and say that Season Four is the best or Season Five is the best.

    I would love to discuss old episodes with you and anybody else who would like to do that.
    Dark-Fox likes this.
  9. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 5
    Next on my DVR: Downfall of a Droid.

    Again they are immediately focused on the war and the next battle. It's just more tense.

    The space battle:

    There was a new writer and director for this episode, George Krstic and Rob Coleman, and I can tell they were trying to be creative, but it's clear that at least one of them didn't understand the capabilities of the weapons of war they were using. We see starfighters survive hits from the big guns of a Munificent-class Star Frigate, which should easily vaporize a starfighter. Capital grade turbolasers vaporize starfighters, this is consistently shown throughout Star Wars media, including the movies. Worse, AT-TEs simply don't possess enough firepower to do significant damage to the Separatist vessels, even with the Separatist vessels' aft shields down, let alone cause the massive explosions shown. So the big surprise attack fell flat with me, because I saw some flaws with how everything was used. Maybe I'm just being a crazy fleet junkie.

    I'd also like to point out the several useless spins performed by Anakin in his starfighter. He wasn't even being shot at, he was just spinning for no reason. Came off as kinda lame.

    Funny how quickly Grievous bailed on the whole operation. It was like he knew the whole fleet would go boom immediately after the first shots were fired.

    I liked the simple cloaks worn by Anakin and Ahsoka while they were on Gha Nachkt's ship.

    I seem to remember some sort of droid techno music while they were on board. Anyone else remember? I kinda raised my eyebrow and was all like "Is that techno music?". It was an amusing choice.

    Get ready to be shocked, SHOCKED, by my next comment. Are you ready?

    I thought Ahsoka's line that went something like "His name is Goldie. Because he's gold. You know, for Gold Leader. Of Gold Squadron?" was actually kinda cute.

    Yeah, I said it.

    I liked how unconcerned Kenobi was for R2. I thought it made sense.

    By the same token, I liked how determined Anakin was to save R2. That fits Anakin to a T.

    The narrow escape in the Twilight at the end of the episode was classic Star Wars.

    Now to my main complaint for this duology. The main plot is just....I can't describe it. Terrible? Absurd? Cartoonish? Juvenile?

    Inane. I'm going with inane.

    I mean, R2 is lost, and just happens to be replaced by a "astromech spy" planted by Grievous? How would Grievous know R2 would be lost? How did he ensure Goldie would be chosen to replace him? It's just too convenient, and it's actually pretty relevant to the plot. I just don't like any of it. Grievous hatching this scheme is totally classic zany villainy, like something Cobra Commander would do.

    Secondly I think they made it a little too obvious that Goldie was working against our heroes. I mean, he resisted them at every possible opportunity in the most blatant ways, yet the heroes keep using him, even after he almost gets Skywalker killed. They may not have come to the conclusion that Goldie was a spy, but they should have concluded that he was dangerously defective. If he was really looking to kill Skywalker, why didn't he just kamikaze into a star?

    Because of the failed space battle and the inane plot, I consider this episode a total failure.

    4/10

    Duel of the Droids is next.

    Edit: Forgot to mention the battle with the assassin droids, which was cool. The droids were suitably intimidating and I thought their choreography was excellent. As usual I found Ahsoka's choreography annoying, and she had to save her master from an attack from behind, because apparently Anakin turns his back on enemies and forgets about them.
    Last edited by CT-867-5309, Nov 20, 2012
  10. Dan_Grievous_Tikkes_Fan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 4
    The Goldie line makes me vomit too.
    So I am not shocked.


    Good point but TCW tends to be biased and make the Republic overpowered and make the CIS into a pulp.

    Anakin was done right in this episode.

    Most people on the show do not understand the power of either side and they make up things. Usually making the CIS's things seem too weak.
  11. Dark-Fox Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 28, 2008
    star 2
    Nice insights See Tee, keep 'em coming 'coz they're fun to read.

    Good point about the Goldie plant; another example of how TCW suffers as an anthology rather than a series. I agree about the space battle too, makes the CIS look stupid not being able to take on one ship.

    I liked Gha Nachkt and his IG droids - was nice to see a familiar OT face plate. I also really enjoyed Grievous' interactions with Nachkt in which he always sounds impatient: "What is it, Gha Nachkt?"

    As for Ahsoka, I like her in every episode but especially liked her reaction to being called Shnukums or whatever it was Annie called her.
  12. Coric Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 19, 2011
    star 4
    Season 1 is still my favorite season. I loved 19/22 of the episodes.
  13. Dan_Grievous_Tikkes_Fan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 4
    Same here, such an amazing season with so much stuff in it. SEASON ONE IS THE BEST!
    SeparatistFan and Coric like this.
  14. ninjaofthenight801 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 19, 2011
    star 1
    And it had Mace Windu actually, you know, living up to his reputation!
  15. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 5
    Duel of the Droids, though it's just going to be more of the same.

    I enjoyed watching Grievous shank Gha Nachkt so ruthlessly. I just love when villains stab fools for being foolish enough to deal with them. Sometimes that kind of stuff can come off very simplistic and childish, like every dark side option in KOTOR, but it really is just solid villainy. Think of it from the perspective of a person who has no problems killing. Why pay when you can just kill? There are obvious downsides for such actions, but a killer wouldn't care. I like that it demonstrates that that's what you get for dancing with the devil.

    You can't really complain that Ahsoka is overpowered at this point in the show. IIRC, Ventress just overwhelms her in the movie, and in this episode Grievous just tosses her aside in their first encounter.

    There was a moment when Anakin dropped from a ventilation shaft in the ceiling, popped his lightsaber and gave this slow, dramatic badass pose and I have to admit I enjoyed it.

    Grievous catches Ahsoka off guard by hanging from the ceiling, reminiscent of the microseries.

    Unfortunately, Grievous snatches Ahsoka by the throat and proceeds to.....have a conversation with her. Why not just kill her? What might have been.

    I am fully aware that they had no intention of killing Ahsoka, but if that's so, don't have a Jedi killing machine with a mechanical grip snatch her up by her chicken neck.

    I don't have much more to say. The duel between R2 and Goldie was weak and certainly not worth devoting two episodes building toward.

    Oh, and more useless Skywalker spins. I guess he really does believe that spinning is a good trick.

    4/10
    Dark-Fox likes this.
  16. Dark-Fox Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 28, 2008
    star 2
    Oh, why the Snips hate CT? :p And what does Artoiee need to do to impress you? I thought the little guy was awesome in this episode.
    I like your "solid villainy" line though, so consider my cap doffed sir :)

    I thought Ahsoka's line to Anakin when he confronts her about Goldie's treachery "I guess he had us all fooled" was a comedy highlight as yet unparalleled in any season. Oh how I lol'd.
  17. Seerow SWTV★Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2011
    star 6
    I have a soft spot for "Downfall of a Droid". Its that campy, cheesy, goodness stuff I was talking about early on. I actually laugh at the episodes in certain points. I thought the clones getting banged around, Ahsoka's little attempt to fight with Grievous, the battle in the hanger, and Artoo's lack of mercy toward Goldie were all good fun. Highlight of the episode is still poor Rex having to carry Goldie. Oh, I remember when he and Ahsoka seemed to have a big brother, little sister sorta thing going.
    Dark-Fox likes this.
  18. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 5
    R2 is cool with me, I just didn't enjoy seeing two astromechs bump into each other like some kind of Stephen Hawking vs Stephen Hawking mirror wheelchair fight.

    No offense to the wheelchair bound.
  19. Dark-Fox Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 28, 2008
    star 2
    I agree. The other clones chuckling at Rex's misfortune still makes me giggle along with them. I liked how Snips refused to be intimidated by Grievous despite being over-matched. Dammit, I like that padawan and will not be ashamed to admit it and now you mention it I miss that Rex/'Soka dynamic too.
    KenobiSkywalker and Seerow like this.
  20. Seerow SWTV★Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2011
    star 6
    Looking back on it Ahsoka probably was a little more fun when she had more attitude back then.
  21. Cary_the_Brave Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 5, 2012
    star 3
    I thought Season 1 was a good season, then Season 2 kind of had some pros and cons, and Season 3 was just a pile of poodoo. Season 4 sucked except for the Umbara Arc, A Friend in Need, Rako Hardeen arc, and Maul arc. Season 5 is good except the Onderon arc was lacky and The Gathering was a little too childish.
  22. KenobiSkywalker Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 4
    I wonder why they dropped that.. I wish they would have kept their friendship that way.
  23. KED12345 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 10, 2012
    star 4
    (In order of appearance)
    10/10 - Rookies, Lair of Grevious, Liberty on Ryloth, Cargo of Doom, Landing at Point Rain, Grievous Intrigue, Voyage of Temptation, ARC Troopers, Nightsisters, Overlords, Darkness on Umbara, The General, Plan of Dissent, Carnage of Krell, Deception, Revival.
    9/10 - Ambush, Jedi Crash, Trespass, The Hidden Enemy, Storms over Ryloth, Innocents of Ryloth, Weapons Factory, The Deserter, Cat and Mouse, Death Trap, Clone Cadets, Kidnapped, Slaves of the Republic, Friends and Enemies, Crisis on Naboo, Revenge, Tipping Points, Bound for Rescue.
    8/10 - Rising Malevolence, Shadow of Malevolence, Cloak of Darkness, Dooku Captured, Defenders of Peace, Hostage Crisis, Children of the Force, Legacy of Terror, The Mandalore Plot, Supply Lines, Altair of Mortis, Ghosts of Mortis, The Citadel, Counter Attack, Citadel Rescue, Wookie Hunt, A Friend in Need, Massacre, A War on Two Fronts, The Soft War, The Gathering, A Test of Strength.

    Every other episode is sub-par.
  24. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Ahsoka was far more fun when she was just Anakin's feisty Padawan as opposed to Padawan Awesomeness who can do no wrong and whom no one can survive without.

    I liked almost all of seasons 1 and 2 and quite a bit of season 3; season 4 was a big letdown and season 5 thus far has been the same.
    Mzukiller likes this.
  25. KenobiSkywalker Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 4
    How has Ahsoka been Padawan Awesomeness so far this season? She failed with Steela in Onderon, and was rescued by younglings in YJ.
    darth fluffy likes this.