Clone Wars For Discussion of Old TCW episodes...

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by CT-867-5309, Nov 19, 2012.

  1. 07jonesj Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2010
    star 4
    I'm pretty sure some saw him as a pointless addition, and some didn't like his "It's an attack!" line. There were also complaints that he wasn't really given much character.

    Yes, that's the next episode. It's not directly related (it's not a 4-parter), but it continue the Gungans vs. Separatists thing that happened in the Mon Cala trilogy.
  2. GGrievous Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2005
    star 5
    So I am going to review a TCW episode:

    Show Spoiler
    Nah
  3. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 5
    I watched Lightsaber Lost. Though I've never been a real fan of the episode, I appreciate it for what it is. It's certainly a different story, a smaller story, one showing the undercity of Coruscant and the lives of the "little people" and full of lessons well delivered.

    So, Ahsoka loses her saber, and Anakin doesn't seem to notice. Not sure how he could miss its absence, it's always prominently displayed on her hip in full view. It's not like she had any other place to put it, except maybe up her skirt. That's my only perverted reference for this episode, I swear.

    Sinube makes a funny, "You're saying there was something fishy about him". I admit, I laughed. A very corny joke, but Sinube seemed to be quite amused by it, and that helped sell it. He reminded me of Splinter.

    I didn't really like Ahsoka calling Sinube "gramps". Yes, I know it was in the spirit of the episode, but I could have done without it. It doesn't really make sense IU, but they just did it to try to make Ahsoka more kid friendly.

    So Ahsoka just walks up to some street vendor and says "We're looking to buy a lightsaber, any idea where we could do that?" Reeeeeeaaal subtle. It serves as a nice contrast to Sinube. Ahsoka is really pushy during the conversation, but Sinube is smooth and not threatening. They're accused of being Jedi, and IIRC Ahsoka responds aggressively, and Sinube just says "and if we are?" all chill like. You definitely get the sense that Ahsoka is just making things more difficult, that if Sinube was handling the conversation it would have gone much more smoothly and quickly. It's a nice demonstration of calm and patience.

    Sinube mind tricks the Rodian hotel manager with "we know where we're going", and the manager slides half his body through the window of the front desk just to respond "you know where you're going". Damn, that must have been a very persuasive mind trick.

    Ahsoka is pouting, and Sinube says "quiet your mind". She learns that if she just slows down for a second, the Force will provide the answer she is looking for. This is classic Jedi wisdom presented in a very practical fashion, it was more than just talk, it was demonstrably useful. We don't see that much from Anakin, probably because he's just as reckless as Ahsoka, always on the move. It just makes it glaringly obvious that Ahsoka is really missing out on this stuff being under Anakin's teachings in the middle of a war. Maybe a lot of young Jedi are missing out on this stuff.

    Ahsoka is crazy aggressive with the thief, pinning him over backward, raising her fist to him, and picking him up and slamming him into a wall with the Force just because the thief suggested she was a bit young to be a Jedi. Damn, that's a bit dark, don't ya think? Sometimes I wonder if TCW realizes how un-Jedi that stuff really is, or if they lose sight of that in the act of making Ahsoka a young, feisty action girl. If you look at it from an IU perspective, that kind of behavior would just be unacceptable for a Jedi and she wouldn't stick around long behaving like that. I guess you could chalk it up to just a lack of discipline, but it's an alarming lack of discipline for anybody, but especially a Jedi.

    I thought Ione Marcy's VA was great, Meredith Salenger (who is also the voice of Barriss) did a wonderful job selling the scared damsel in distress, practically cooing like Olive Oil.

    I think I'm in the minority, but I'm a fan of Cassie Cryar. I just love her design, especially her mask, but also her attire and weird hair. I think she was well voice acted and I'm a huge fan of the street running trait. I love that there's a whole species of super athletes and I actually like the name "Terrelian Jango Jumper", it sounds very Star Warsy, like something you'd hear mentioned in the movies.

    Sinube suspects Marcy from the start, and sticks around to poke holes in her story. It doesn't take him long to piece it together, with the Force probably guiding his instincts. Just another example of a wise Jedi Master showing what can be accomplished when you're calm and patient and the Force is your ally.

    A nice moment seeing Ahsoka fall short leaping after Cassie, just nice to see her come up short, literally. She ends up grabbing on to.....a television screen? How the hell was she hanging from a flat display screen? There's nothing to grip.

    Cassie rocking the pole was a fantastic show of balance, and Ahsoka falls! Ha, guess she's not the greatest gymnast in the galaxy.

    lol @ Sinube being a slow driver. Cuz you know, old people drive slow.

    At several points I found myself wondering why Ahsoka didn't just use the Force to put an end to the whole thing, especially considering her displays of Force mastery throughout the series, but it's cool.

    While Ahsoka chases Cassie all over tarnation, Sinube just goes straight to their final destination. That's why he's a Master. I can't even properly explain how awesome that is. It's just a suitably wizard example of a wise Jedi exercising patience, using his instincts and trusting in the Force. It's the Jedi ideal in practical action. Sinube, the wise old Jedi, is in harmony with the Force, while brash young Ahsoka is chaotic and not really connected to the Force at all, not truly. Despite her skills with a saber and her uber displays of Force ability, she still has much to learn.

    Sinube elegantly disarms Cassie with very precise, one handed movements, with no wasted effort. Which makes sense for an old dude, no Flubber for him. I was thinking he was a master of Makashi, the same style Dooku uses. I also noticed his lightsaber blade was a faint blue color, like the lightsabers from ANH. It kinda makes me think that lightsabers fade in color as their users fade with time. I know that's not really the case, but I thought it made for cool symbolism anyway.

    I don't really know what to score this, because it's really not a very entertaining episode, but it's a nice story. So I'm not going to grade it.

    Okay I am. Not grading it would be a cop out on my part. In the past, I think I gave this like a 3 or 4, which I now think is simply unfair. This episode deserves at least a passing grade for doing what it set out to do quite well, and for telling a type of story we rarely get to see, a story very much worth telling imo (as opposed to droid garbage). It's sorta like the visual equivalent of a young reader's novel, or a niche novel.

    BOOM.
    8/10
    Believe it.
  4. Dark Lord Tarkas Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2011
    star 4
    I think that's higher than I would grade Lightsaber Lost, but I fully agree that despite not being great, it serves a very worthwhile function in the scope of the series.
  5. Todd the Jedi Mod and Sitcom Dad of SWTV

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Oct 16, 2008
    star 5
    That's pretty much my take. I hated both Marcy and Cryer for many reasons, but loved Sinube for his philosophies and interactions with Ahsoka.
  6. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 5
    A post in the general discussion thread reminded me that I forgot about Brain Invaders, which I watched before Grievous Intrigue. The reason I forgot to post my thoughts on it here is that I don't have much to say about it, I don't find it particularly noteworthy, even in light of the current arc.

    They mentioned Mace and the Battle of Dantooine. I found this reference slightly annoying in light of the shows casual disregard for the EU.

    Putting Ahsoka and Barriss together didn't feel like the logical choice IU imo. Obviously it was an OOU decision. I felt the same about Weapons Factory, putting Ahsoka and Barriss together didn't make sense IU. It should have been Luminara and Barriss taking down the factory, with Anakin and Ahsoka serving as a distraction. I'm okay with these decisions, though.

    The whole spread of the worms just didn't work for me. Why is the first infected clone even sleeping there? How did the egg even get there? Where did the clones get all the extra eggs from? If the Queen is dead, who controls the hive mind? The worms?

    One of the clones said "We weren't bred for blah blah blah" and their leader responds "We were bred to follow orders". Hmmm....are the worms a symbolic replacement for Palpatine?

    Not really appropriate to discuss in this thread (open)
    I noted that Barriss was resting perfectly still, while Ahsoka tossing and turning. Which one is (supposedly) having problems with the war, again?

    Ahsoka kinda clowned Barriss over and over when Barriss was under the control of the worms. She was able to fight her off and escape quite easily, it appeared casual. Compare it to their supposed fight in "To Catch A Jedi". There is no comparison. I'm fine with the dark side making the difference, though.


    That's all I really have to say about this episode in relation to the current arc. I don't really find much of Ahsoka's conflict in regards to killing Barriss noteworthy, and Anakin provided a clear cut answer.

    This episode felt extraneous. It was a disappointing episode to one of the best arcs of the show, imo. 6/10

    I gave the four episodes of this arc (I don't count Senate Spy) 33/40, or an 8.25 average. That's slightly less than what I gave the Ryloth trilogy.

    The S2 Mandalore arc is next, I remember it being mind-numbingly boring when it aired, but after the Mauldalore arc I'm going to give it another shot for comparison, mostly to see how I feel about Vizsla, and to see if it will spark anything in me regarding Kenobi and Satine.
  7. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    I've ranked this episode among my favorites because of that conversation she had with Anakin.
  8. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 5
    The Mandalore Plot

    Starts with an excellent cookie, "If you ignore the past, you jeopardize the future".

    To begin with, IU it seems off that Kenobi would be sent to Mandalore. Even if he's supposed to be impartial and detached, there is the possibility of bias, it seems that the prudent thing to do would be for Kenobi to excuse himself from the mission. Of course the decision is obvious OOU.

    I'm pretty sure Almec was intended to wipe out prior continuity, but for some reason people, even people working for LFL, are still in denial.

    I immediately noticed the difference in Anna Graves' VA for Satine, it was much more nuanced than it was in later arcs.

    It was nice to see Dooku's political cunning, as opposed to his lolevil ways.

    lol that bomber was pretty damn dedicated to the cause, enough to commit suicide by epic flop. Not sure what to make of that.

    Unfortunately, his use of some stupid Mando language really pissed me off.

    1) It's just lame
    2) I had no idea what the hell he was saying.
    3) They didn't provide a clue. No subtitles, no translation from Satine.
    4) It seemed pretty important to me, I doubt it was just throw away dialogue, he seemed to be relating something important to him.

    Am I supposed to learn some random fictional language to know what this guy is saying?

    Satine and Kenobi.....I don't see it. It's not working for me.

    Mando sneaks up on Kenobi, I guess the Will of the Force decided not to warn him. Kenobi is disarmed with pathetic ease and quickly knocked out by two random Mandos. Okay.

    The secret convo between Kenobi and Satine while Satine was dining with Vizsla worked, Graves sold the humor of it quite well.

    *sigh* The Mandos use a Bond villain trap, trying to sell the idea that Kenobi died in a fatal accident. Yeah, General Kenobi was killed by walking into mining equipment. Sounds legit. The Council will definitely buy that. By the way, that mining equipment isn't even supposed to be there, or at least isn't supposed to be operational, so it still calls heat down on Death Watch. At least the banter during that sequence was really fun.

    The Mando action after Satine/Kenobi escape the Bond trap was terribly dull. Compared to the action in the Mauldalore arc it's just pathetically uninspired.

    Vizsla shoots one of his own for his failure. I disagree with the OOU decision.

    While it was cool for Vizsla to challenge Kenobi to an honor duel, the duel itself was quite clunky and a failure imo.

    Kenobi scoops up Satine, drops down the elevator shaft and lands on top of her. Our hero.

    Some nice dialogue at the end:

    Satine: I suppose we're even now.
    Kenobi: How so?
    Satine: I saved your life, and you saved mine.
    Kenobi: Yes, well, mine was the more daring of the two rescues.

    IIRC Satine gives him a little smile, as if to say "cute". It's about time she drop the attitude for a second.

    Oh, the Coronet was a cool looking ship.

    My memory of this episode wasn't that bad, considering I haven't seen it since it aired. It's better than I remember it, but it's still snoreworthy.

    5/10, and I think I'm being generous because it wasn't as horrifyingly bad as other TCW episodes.
    Last edited by CT-867-5309, Feb 26, 2013
  9. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    That's one way to have a romantic evening.

    LOL, I enjoyed that review more than I remember enjoying the episode.
  10. GGrievous Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2005
    star 5
    I still want my 30 minutes back.
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  11. 07jonesj Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2010
    star 4
    You didn't enjoy Ahsoka getting the hang of Jedi Mind Tricks? Or BFF Chuchi?

    How about the Lucas family? ;)

    Or Greedo the sort-of Elder, maybe not.
  12. GGrievous Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2005
    star 5
    I've reviewed that crap years ago.
  13. Mia Mesharad Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 4
    As far as the plot's concerned, it pretty much was throw-away dialogue, essentially there only for the clue of the Concordian dialect to lead the characters off to Concordia. If you're genuinely curious, some other viewers a while back figured out the writing team used an old, early fan-made lexicon of Mando'a for the Concordian featured in the episode, which can be viewed here. Before jumping, the bomber apparently shouted "Compassionate leaders shall burn!" And when he was laying on the ground he said something to the effect of "I will have eternal glory, but now I sleep" to which Satine responds, "Yes, goodbye. Now sleep." Or something like that. Subtitles would've been nice, but apparently we weren't missing much.
  14. 07jonesj Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2010
    star 4
    Papanoida family spin-off film in the works. :D
    Last edited by 07jonesj, Feb 26, 2013
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  15. GGrievous Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2005
    star 5
  16. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 5
    Voyage of Temptation. I have to admit I was pleasantly surprised by this one.

    Another excellent cookie to start the episode. "Fear not for the future, weep not for the past".

    Why are the clones checking the cargo hold in the dark? TURN ON THE *** DAMN LIGHTS.
    http://hark.com/clips/qdflhqwrxt-ive-got-the-knife-now-turn-on-the-goddamn-light

    Satine is all opulent sitting in her bed while chatting it up with her fellow Senators. Definitely intended to stress Satine's royal status, it looked like a scene out of Elizabeth. Well, probably because Satine looks like Cate Blanchett. They should have had her eating SW strawberries for the final touch.

    Satine is arguing with Kenobi, and it's kinda like Han/Leia, except way more serious. It's not playful, they're really fighting over legitimate differences. In ESB it was never serious because Han couldn't care less about political differences, or any differences. The argument ends with both Satine and Kenobi shouting "Fine!" at the same time. Ha, it was like something out of a sitcom. They should have followed it up with simultaneous door slams. Satine's VA is still really strong in this episode.

    The assassin droid was legitimately cool, and birthing out mini versions of itself was kinda creepy crawly.

    Kenobi mentions his time living hand to mouth with Satine, and Anakin describes it as "kinda romantic". To me, it seemed like Anakin was making an appeal, like he was trying to share something with Kenobi, but Kenobi shuts him down hard every time Anakin reaches out to him. Knowing the future, it was sad to see those attempts swatted away. If Kenobi had really opened up, Anakin may have confessed his relationship with Padme in a bonding moment.

    The two clones are missing, Anakin heads down to the cargo hold and says "What's the problem, I'm missing dinner". Ha.

    I liked seeing R2 zap the little assassin droids, it's one of the better uses of his zapper I've seen. I always get the feeling that his little zapper wouldn't really be effective against anything significant, but it's perfect for the tiny droids. It was nice to see a cool moment for R2 to help redeem him after the D-Squad arc.

    Satine: Just because I'm a pacifist doesn't mean I won't defend myself.

    Um, wut? Now that I think about it, I have no idea what the hell her stance is, or if it's consistent. Sometimes she's willing to fight back, other times she refuses as if it were the worst of sins. She's constantly bitching at Kenobi over trying to defend himself, her and Mandalore. She fights the Mandos in "The Mandalore Plot", she shoots the assassin droids in this episode but later refuses to shoot Merrik, not even to save not only her own life but the lives of everyone on the ship. In the Mauldalore arc she just caves.

    Anakin lightsaber throw! =P~

    lol at Horatio Hornblower Captain Gray.
    [IMG]
    Oh, he and his entire bridge crew get shot down by Merrik. Nice security on Satine's personal ship.

    The B2 boarding action was sweet, the red emergency lighting served to make it even more frightening.

    Anakin's "You go find your girlfriend" was hilarious, he's just trolling Kenobi now.

    The Mando guards were deflecting blaster bolts with their staves again. I guess there's like three highly skilled New Mandos, while the rest are total ****.

    I noticed a blaster bolt deflect off a B2's armor. It was nice to see them not portrayed as scrap. It looked like the ranks of the B2s would have overwhelmed the clones and the Mandos if Anakin hadn't showed up.

    Satine says "I've loved you blah blah blah" and Merrik rolls his eyes and says "I don't believe this". Ha, he's like an audience surrogate. Where was this guy in AOTC?

    Kenobi says "Had you said the word, I would have left the Jedi Order." WRONG!

    lol! Anakin just shanks Merrik from behind. That was a perfect ending to that dilemma, Anakin doesn't care about killing this dude.

    At the end, Satine compliments Kenobi's handsome face, and Anakin laughs and says "What was that all about?" He was basically all like "Dude, so when are you guys getting married?"


    A solid assassination plot. The Kenobi romance just isn't working for me, I'm both disinterested and disagreeable with it. That's not really my fault. This isn't the Kenobi I know, and if TCW wants to change that image, they have to win me over and they haven't. Really the only significant flaw of this episode. 9/10

    Finding enjoyment in unexpected places is the reason I'm watching these old episodes, so this was nice.
    Last edited by CT-867-5309, Feb 26, 2013
  17. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    How much liquor would it take to get you to review Craptis, GG?
    07jonesj likes this.
  18. 07jonesj Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2010
    star 4
    We really should do a Mortis Viewing Party at some point... and set up some sort of drinking game. [face_laugh]
    Dark Lord Tarkas likes this.
  19. GGrievous Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2005
    star 5
    I'd rather watch S1 episodes. :p
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  20. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    I'd love a "Mortis Viewing Party for people who hate Mortis," with the expectation being a lot of MSTing; alcohol would be optional but I will certainly be imbibing.
  21. GGrievous Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2005
    star 5
    I hate the current Ahsoka so much....
    anakinfansince1983 likes this.
  22. 07jonesj Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2010
    star 4
    If we've drank enough by Ghosts, we might see our own Force ghosts and crazy farfetched visions into the future, only to forget about them upon sobering up in the morning. :p

    You do like to go against the flow, don't you GG? How is 8-year old Snips better than semi-mature Jedi padawan? [face_thinking]
    Last edited by 07jonesj, Feb 26, 2013
  23. GGrievous Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2005
    star 5
    The 14 year old Ahsoka was annoying, yes, but she was not the egoistical, hot headed arrogant Ahsoka of today. ;)

    They act as if they are two different characters named Ahsoka.

    I think 14 year old Ahsoka's line of "overly qualified" in S3 was the bridge to our beloved boob holed Ahsoka...
    Last edited by GGrievous, Feb 26, 2013
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  24. 07jonesj Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2010
    star 4
    Egotistical? Hot-headed? It's almost like she's Anakin Skywalker's apprentice! :p

    Boob hole vs. Tube top. Such a hard decision...

    This isn't really a competition for me though, I can't stand Ahsoka in the movie (well, I can't stand the move at all actually, haven't watched it since, what, 2009?) and the early season 1 episodes. "Artooie" is a thing that cannot be unheard.
  25. GGrievous Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2005
    star 5
    While annoyance and bratty is tube top's character in the earlier episodes, the hot headed and arrogance can be for the holey Ahsoka. ;)

    I hate the nicknaming.
    Last edited by GGrievous, Feb 26, 2013
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