Clone Wars For Discussion of Old TCW episodes...

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by CT-867-5309, Nov 19, 2012.

  1. GGrievous Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2005
    star 5
    I can't find the thread, so I am going to dump this here. I decided to watch The Gathering.

    I am sorry for the tl;dr. There was a lot to talk about. :p
    ----


    Okay, so this is my first episode that I have seen since literally back in March. I only saw 8 minutes of an episode so far this year and it was Robo Maul. Not the best episode to start with because it too has its own faults. This episode completely robs that title. However, I am trying to keep this unbiased and completely focused on what TCW has to offer (oh god). I am going to break this review up and throw in some nitpick/random thoughts that I had as I watched this episode. I will keep my verdict at the end and I apologize for any tl;dr moments.

    I am going to start with the #1 issue that I had in this episode: Pointless Jedi Grand Master Padawan Ahsoka. What was her purpose in this episode? She appears with R2, and what the heck is a droid doing there and let alone being R2? We saw Yoda in the episode, and I will get to that eventually, but letting Ahsoka judge and dictate how “grand” this Jedi “gathering” is was just out of character and not necessary. I know what they are trying to do and I think they are lost and confused just like these annoying, whinny kids that I am about to talk about. Maturity =/= and should not equal having to shoehorn and showcase a character in every way possible. Ahsoka was not needed in this episode and if they wanted to show her maturity, please, pick an easy episode for her to be in, such as an episode about clones and the war, as an example. Show her maturing in her leadership abilities during wartime, not showcasing her during a scene where it would be more suitable for a Jedi Master. To me, Ahsoka was not mature in this episode, but a girl who sticks out like a sore thumb and is totally overconfident in her own abilities. She did come out as arrogant and I am surprised that even Yoda did not sniff that one out. I guess it has to do with Filoni and whatever he says goes because he loves Ahsoka so much…

    When Ashley was reading her script, especially during the name roll call, I really came to the conclusion that her voice does not fit the character. She sounds completely older, like 30ish. It does feel like she is not even trying to convince the audience that she is like 14-15 years old. I have not seen an Ahsoka episode for a long, long time so that might have been the reason why her voice felt odd. Even more mind boggling, I think that kids in this day of age hit puberty around the age of 9 years old. Pedro/Petro, the only Human (I feel sorry for him), definitely needed a new voice actor and not some adult trying to sound like a kid. At least he was trying too, unlike someone. It is not hatred nor being completely negative toward Ashley’s voice acting abilities, but come on. Really, voices should not break my suspension of disbelief.

    llum had its own bag of issues – and it was basically where all my nitpicking was located in. I know TCW tries to become “drama filled,” but they totally went everywhere in this episode. Things that these kids figured out at the end could have been figured out at the beginning of this episode. After all, according to Grand Master Ahsoka, they were at the top of their class. Why not use the Force in the beginnings and spare us your whines and groans about not being able to find your magical appearing crystal.

    Probably it was inspired or probably not, but that Lord of the Rings, magic Disney open sesame entrance door was pretty pointless and lacked the sort of “omgz” that it needed. Basically Ahsoka telling the audience that the kids need to help her open the door butchered the scene, as well as them “helping her via the Force.” I do not know, but it seemed that they were hardly even doing anything except stand there. It would have been equally funny if the younglings did not even help her and just stood there. Honestly, why is she even there?

    Nitpick: Kevin Kiner, we are not at church… Spare me the church sounding choir in the llum temple…

    Now here is where the headaches begin, at least for me. Why the hell is Yoda there on llum? Is that his casual hangout spot or a place to leave Coruscant? Why not help the younglings travel to Ilum. It would have made so much better sense to have him gathering the younglings and go on this ritual than have Ahsoka, of all people, to guide them there. We do not need crossed armed Ahsoka to stand there and look like she is some wise old Jedi. She’s a kid in training, just like the younglings. She is no different than them besides the obvious, so it does not click to me on why she is even helping them. Sorry for this Ahsoka rant #3, but all of this just degrades my ability to like this character. I just do not get it. I think Ahsoka could be so much more than what we are currently receiving. Whether it is tube top Ahsoka or boob holed Ahsoka, both have issues that just make me want to punch either one in the face. However, while a different topic, I think I favor/leaning toward tube top Ahsoka as the Ahsoka that I would get used to. Not the egotistical “I know everything” boobed hole Ahsoka…

    Nitpick: “No bro, I told you Yoda is here!” “No I told you!” Where did the voices of the younglings go when the camera refocused on Yoda? Nice continuity error.

    For Star Wars, TCW generally does not often focus on what it should be: a space fantasy opera, not a full fledged magic fantasy land. The Indiana Jones light scene right after Yoda debriefed the younglings felt out of place. This is generally an issue that I do not like from this series. I know that Filoni is a fanboy of Indiana Jones, Lord of the Rings and other fantasy stuff, but his fanboyism always ends up in TCW. It really is a pain to connect this crap with the films when it is cluttered with fantasy stuff that just did not appear in, say the OT.

    The music was problem some in this episode and I know that I mentioned this earlier with a nitpick. I know Kiner is trying to show “Hey! It’s Star Wars! See! I remember John Williams’ music!” The Force theme randomly and awkwardly appears.

    Nitpick: So I guess everyone and their mothers can understand a Chewbacca sounding Wookiee in TCW. Also I do not know if randomly pointing at a doorway = follow your instincts. Where’s the Force, kids?

    So pretty much, given the lack of information in the episode, we are forced to believe that magic fantasy crystals randomly appear and only a specific kid may only see the crystal. Wath… brb facepalm image.

    Nitpick: I think young Adi is a hypocrite or it just not understanding her script. She told the Ithorian to not be afraid and now she is a afraid. K..
    Nitpick: “Hey I haven’t seen anything resembling my crystal yet! Good luck!” Maybe because you are concentrating too much on that overused datapad animation model…
    Nitpick: Use the Force young Chewbacca…
    Nitpick: Wait...If ice can glow then how come the other huge ice formation rocks are not glowing?
    Nitpick: Ithorian use the Force…

    I think more whining appeared in this episode than crystals.

    Wait, hold on. So both ice and crystals glow? If Petro, Pedro or whatever received ice and it really does look a lot like the crystals the other kids found, then why did it glow? It was even lodged between the two ice rock formations… Why did the ice rock melt like that?

    Serious nitpick: “I am a Jedi. I am one with the Force and the Force will guide me!” [face_plain] Okay, it’s like 14 minutes into the episode and already one whiner figured it out… Not only that, he used the Force to retrieve the crystal. Congratulations, kid. Also if his datapad was a bomb, then how come it did not blow up in his face when he rage destroyed it on the ice wall? Not to mention how convenient…

    How are these kids surviving these falls? I would imagine that the young Kit Fisto would survive his due to the fact that there was more snow, but young Adi clearly could have been easily crushed or the back of her head bashed in due to her slip and fall. I think she could have easily injured her back nonetheless. Later on when she was trapped, they could have just let young Adi stay there and whine and cry. Here is your drama opportunity, TCW. At least it would have been more believable than Petro telling her “bitch please, I aint gonna help.” To “Help is on the way!” a few seconds later.

    Wait…if he could rage smash through ice walls then why the hell did he not do that for young Adi? So I guess Petro, Pedro is the designated ice smasher. He must have a body of steel…
    And no Yoda, that was not water. That’s ice. That’s a solid form of water. It’s called science. And I do not think anyone could literally smashed through ice. Not even a kid. I also do not think that ice could freeze that way…

    4/10

    If given out of four stars, it would be around a 1.5-2 imo
    Last edited by GGrievous, Nov 24, 2012
  2. Cary_the_Brave Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 5, 2012
    star 3
    Oh, GGrievous, how we just love your oddly but yet explicit opinions.
    KenobiSkywalker likes this.
  3. QuangoFett Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 11, 2011
    star 4
  4. Seerow SWTV★Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2011
    star 6
    Suprise, Surprise GG, that's 2 down, 3 more to go. Better get moving, bro.
  5. GGrievous Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2005
    star 5
    It's not odd. And no, I'm good Seerow.

    I filled my watch TCW quota. I'll watch another in 6 months. :p
    Last edited by GGrievous, Nov 26, 2012
  6. Seerow SWTV★Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2011
    star 6
    Your going to give up now? No way.

    “A lesson without pain is meaningless. For you cannot gain anything without sacrificing something else in return, but once you have overcome it and made it your own...you will gain an irreplaceable fullmetal heart.”
    cwustudent likes this.
  7. GGrievous Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2005
    star 5
    I gave up a long time ago.

    8 minutes into Revival.
    Last edited by GGrievous, Nov 26, 2012
  8. Seerow SWTV★Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2011
    star 6
    Oh well, I tried bro. Seerow out!
  9. GGrievous Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2005
    star 5
    I don't know what's worse -- Ahsoka or Robo Maul choking droids.

    I've picked the wrong episodes to watch. :p
    Last edited by GGrievous, Nov 26, 2012
  10. Legolas Skywalker Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 6
    You've picked the right episodes ;)
  11. GGrievous Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2005
    star 5
    You always claim that every episode is awesome, so I really can't take your word for it. ;)
    KenobiSkywalker likes this.
  12. KenobiSkywalker Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 4
    The two of you balance each other out. ;)
    SithStarSlayer likes this.
  13. GGrievous Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2005
    star 5
    I'm not that negative. There's much more negative people out there when it comes to TCW. :p

    I'm more in the middle. I've gave positive reviews before.
    Last edited by GGrievous, Nov 27, 2012
  14. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6
    Jango's voice: "Once or twice?"
    :p
    Seerow likes this.
  15. Seerow SWTV★Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2011
    star 6
    And that's why we lovingly call GG, Captain Grumpy Pants. -fist bump.-
  16. GGrievous Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2005
    star 5
    Possibly.

    @Seerow I don't deserve that nickname. Others are more negative than me. :p
    Last edited by GGrievous, Nov 27, 2012
  17. Seerow SWTV★Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2011
    star 6
    I'll just call you 'The G'.
  18. GGrievous Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2005
    star 5
    It better stand for the General. ;)
  19. Legolas Skywalker Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 6
    or the The Grievous ;)
  20. Seerow SWTV★Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2011
    star 6
    Yes, G for General...

    perfect first initial.
  21. CT-867-5309 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 5
    Hidden Enemy

    I hate to repeat myself again, but damn I love droid marches. Our heroes are setting up an ambush on the droids, when -surprise!- the droids suddenly show up right on top of Kenobi and his group of clones. In such tight quarters, the droids advantage in numbers is even harder to fight off. Droids are going down faster than clones, but the droids just keep coming.

    This is how it should be and how it would be. One of the most basic "stories" of the Clone Wars is that the clones always face overwhelming numbers, the odds are always stacked against them. The clones have to use their superior intelligence, combined with a timely miracle from their Jedi commanders, to even have a chance at holding off the never ending tide of battle droids coming off the factory lines. Season One demonstrates this perfectly.

    Anakin's clones use cables to quickly traverse the distance between the two buildings, and in a moment of shocking competence, a battle droid actually shoots one of the lines from at least 100 meters away! It's almost unbelievable that a droid would be able to make that shot, but I guess if you have enough droids shooting, one of them might get lucky.

    I have to mention how absurd it was when a clone just runs up and rips the head off a tactical droid. It's happened a few times in S1 up to this point and I've ignored it, but this time it's actually significant to the plot. What are battle droids made of? Didn't we see their heads get welded on in AOTC?

    Another minor error: Obi-Wan refers to Cody as "Captain". C'mon, guys.

    When Cody and Rex go into the barracks to interrogate the men, their armor really stood out. Most clone armor in this episode is unpainted and identical, it just looks so much better. It definitely fits the theme of the episode.

    Jester is presented as the model clone, he immediately cleans his weapon after every mission. Chopper's collection of droid fingers, however understandable, is treated as crime for disobeying protocol and suspicion of him red-lines. One of his "brothers" calls him "deficient", backing up the stigma placed on clone individuality. There's no doubt that TCW has been building toward more and more individuality as the show progresses, it's just too bad I hate that ****, because it's solid development.

    Ventress says "The pleasure's all mine my dear Obi-Wan. I've missed you." and I
    [IMG]

    Ventress thinks she's slick when she Force throws those discs, but Kenobi and Skywalker just catch them and hurl them back. Ventress has consistently been portrayed as just a notch below Kenobi and Skywalker and I think that's the right choice.

    Ventress says "I'm all yours" and I
    [IMG]
    Again? Yes, again. Just call me minuteman.

    Seriously, amazing VA from Nika Futterman.

    Ventress vs the Jedi on a falling droid had a ROTS lavafall look going for it.

    And now to the end. Slick's betrayal and every word out of his mouth is just garbage and makes no sense. I'm not even going to go into detail.

    Do you think Ventress possibly seduced Slick? When asked, he said he was doing it for reasons the other clones wouldn't understand, and then he mentions "she" as the one that lured him over to the Separatists.

    This one is hard to score. There's some very arousing Ventress action, but the premise of the plot is just garbage and there were some minor annoyances as well.

    I'm giving it an 8/10 based solely on Ventress pleasure. Watching this episode is like going to the theater with your girlfriend to watch a terrible movie, but you don't really mind because your girlfriend is busy making it up to you. Remove Ventress and this episode gets a two. Yeah, Ventress is a passing grade all by herself, she alone is worth the price of admission.


    Has my Ventress "obsession" gone too far? Of course it has. Would you expect anything less from me?
    Last edited by CT-867-5309, Nov 27, 2012
    cwustudent likes this.
  22. CT-867-5309 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 5
    I've actually watched all the episodes on my DVR besides S5. I might just abandon this thread and dig up the S5 discussion threads as I watch them, which should be easy with the search function.
    Seerow and KenobiSkywalker like this.
  23. -NaTaLie- Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2001
    star 4
    I'm finally catching up with TCW after a long break from Star Wars. Just finished Season two so I have a few random thoughts.

    0205 Landing at Point Rain
    Epic stuff. The banter between Anakin and Ahsoka reminded me of Gimli and Legolas when they bragged about their enemy kills.

    0206 Legacy of Terror
    Obi-Wan to Anakin: "You're always thinking with your lightsaber".
    Best. Line. Ever. :D Yep, that's Anakin Skywalker in a nutshell.

    I liked the Alien homage.

    0207 Brain Invaders
    Reminded me of SG-1, Body Snatchers and any number of Sci-Fi stories with a similar idea. I also liked the foreshadowing of the clones killing the Jedi.

    0211 Lightsaber Lost
    Any episode that explores Coruscant is a win in my book. Not sure about the train stuff, it took me out of the universe. I think the early animatics for the Mustafar duel had a train in them, so maybe it's one of the discarded ideas? Master Sinube was funny.

    0213 -14. The Mandalore arc was suspenseful and it was nice to see Obi-Wan caring for a woman. That would explain why he was lenient with Anakin and Padme. One thing I'm not sure about is when he says he'd leave the Jedi Order for Satine. That's just doesn't seem right as it's always duty first with Obi. Also, Satine is like Padme on steroids. I'm tired of politicians, give me a waitress Obi had a one night stand with :)
    Anakin's move to kill the traitor was awesome and totally in character.

    0216 Cat and Mouse
    One of the best episodes in terms of both character development and adventure. Anakin, as usual, disobeys everyone and then proves his piloting skills. Obi-Wan helping Bail was a nice link to the OT. I wish something like this episode was in the PT.

    0218-19 Zillo Beast
    Mixed feelings about this one. The homage is obvious. Bringing the monster to Coruscant is extremely stupid. The homage is obvious, but it just seems too far-fetched. I did like the irony of pitting a monster on the outside (Zillo) vs. a monster on the inside (Palpatine). Also, Anakin going against the monsterone-on-one brings to mind medieval legends of knights fighting monsters with their swords (i.e. St. George and the dragon).

    0220 Death Trap
    I liked the "band of brothers" vibe here. Not so keen on young Boba sabotaging the entire star destroyer.

    0221 R2 Come Home
    Well, I always suspected that R2 is the true unsung hero of the saga and that he's the one who's actually piloting Luke's and Anakin's fighters. It was sad watching Anakin and Mace still being friends here knowing what lies ahead.

    0222 Lethal Trackdown
    The best part was the Jedi investigating on the lower levels. Other than that, the showdown wasn't very interesting and honestly this whole Boba arc was just a fan service. I do like it that they don't make him a cold-blooded monster from the get-go.
    minnishe likes this.
  24. Dan_Grievous_Tikkes_Fan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 4
    I must say you have picked a great moment in the show to catch up. S2 is amazing...
  25. CT-867-5309 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 5
    NaTaLie bumped this thread so you all have to suffer my wall of text.

    Cat and Mouse

    The opening blockade looked fantastic and it leads to a very solid space battle with reasonable tactics, which is rare in SW. It was nice to see the big guns pumping up close, another rare treat. I noticed a lot of little details, like floating armor debris that makes it look more real. The whole battle just looks BIG, something worthy of the name Star Wars.

    There was some really good "fleet dialogue" during the battle, officers saying things you'd expect them to say. Sounded like a fleet junkie wrote it.

    Putting in the extra effort to show Yularen actually looking up Trench in the ship's database was a nice touch, showing that they actually use intelligence. This stuff is often skipped, but it was a nice little scene to develop the rivalry between Yularen and Trench, which is kinda old school.

    Including all of these little details was just an example of really solid writing.

    Unfortunately there were some flaws in the writing too, like Trench contradicting his own orders for no reason and inconsistent use of technology to force the plot. The shields were on or off depending on whatever the plot required.

    Trench was an amusing villain who comes off reasonably competent. I like his clicking and he had a few nice lines, like the line about "playing little game" with our heroes, it fit his character. I got a laugh out of his echoing Palpatine, "Technology will not save you, your friends on the planet below shall perish as a result of your failure", it sounds like DBB must have heard Palpatine's trolling in ROTJ, "your friends on the Endor moon will not survive", because he delivered it well.

    I love tactical droids and I'm always happy to see one.

    One thing that got annoying while catching up on TCW was how often they insisted on mentioning how different Anakin is. Enough already.

    Yularen has a nice throwaway line at the end, mentioning how often Palpatine praises Anakin.

    The episode started really strong, but fumbled a bit trying to pull off the tactics with the stealth ship.

    8/10