Clone Wars For Discussion of Old TCW episodes...

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by CT-867-5309, Nov 19, 2012.

  1. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    The Council apologized to Ahsoka in The Wrong Jedi, even though as far as I'm concerned, there is really nothing they could have done differently. Had they refused to turn Ahsoka over to the Republic, they would have appeared to be setting themselves above the law, since any citizen of the Republic would have been subject to a trial under the same circumstances. There is no reason the Council should give Ahsoka special treatment.

    However, that is exactly what they did in the Citadel arc. They had rules, but apparently the rules were for everyone but Ahsoka.
  2. Darth Valkyrus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 12, 2013
    star 4
    Oh please AFS83, rewatch the chamber of judgement scene. There wasn't even the most cursory attempt at an investigation. The most scant of examinations of the circumstances of her capture would have immediately raised suspicions in anyone with a brain. Ahsoka was found battered and bloodied, in a warehouse replete with the evidence of a just-happened Jedi battle. Stuff smashed up everywhere, lightsaber cuts on everything, the still-cooling aftermath of that explosion. They ran in the door right after Barriss walked out. The air should still have been thick with the smell of ozone just from the intense lightsaber combat alone.

    They never even tried. Their examination was a joke, they summarily said "Guilty!" without bothering to consider the evidence. Anakin was right when he accused them of having made up their minds already, and not letting inconvenient facts get in the way.

    I was glad when she told the council to shove their knighthood up their collective sanctimonious rectums. It's what I would have done.
    Paparazzo likes this.
  3. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Not rewatching that arc again ever, there was nothing wrong with my viewing comprehension the first time, and the insinuation that I should rewatch an episode until I become "enlightened" enough to agree with your "correct" assessment of the scene is insulting.

    The Council apologized and even seemed ready to knight her based on what Mace said. As far as I'm concerned, Ahsoka was a whiny, unforgiving little brat who stomped out because she didn't get the rules bent for her this time. The character who got my sympathy in that arc was Anakin, who suffered the most due to her behavior.
    Paparazzo likes this.
  4. Darth Valkyrus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 12, 2013
    star 4
    Ok. I'll leave it at that. I'm not about to get into a bitter argument over the internet about it.
  5. Nexumaster Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 21, 2005
    star 4
    I still like to refer to it as a voodooku doll.
    Last edited by Nexumaster, Jun 4, 2013
  6. The Hellhammer 7SA Forum Interrogator

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Nov 4, 2012
    star 5
    The Council screwed up and they tried to spin it as a "you've passed a trial, yeah, this was uh...a trial all along, so. No hard feelings, huh?"
    Ahsoka isn't the most subtle handler of delicate situations and neither is Anakin but in all fairness the Council didn't really shine in that one either.
    Mia Mesharad and Seerow like this.
  7. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    I don't think they screwed up. If the Council had done what you all seem to be indicating that they should have done--tell Tarkin and Palpatine, "Yeah, we know she was found next to evidence and any other Republic citizen would get a trial, but she's a Jedi and we do our own trials"--the public would easily see them as setting themselves above the law.

    They really had no way of knowing that the trial would be a farce, as at the time they assumed that Palpatine and Tarkin were on their side. I'm sure if they did know it would be a farce, they would have both protected Ahsoka and conducted their own investigation as they tried to do in ROTS.

    As far as Ahsoka--blaming the Council when they got played as much as she did, and then walking away whining that they didn't trust her and it was also somehow their fault that she couldn't trust herself (because, yeah, lack of self-trust is always the fault of caregivers' lack of omniscience)--she lost any sympathy I might have had for her. And I didn't have much after she behaved like a dumbass and ran. "But she was a kid!" would only do it for me as an excuse if she had actually been treated like a kid by the writers in the last three seasons, as opposed to an honorary Wiser-Than-Yoda Jedi Master.
  8. The Hellhammer 7SA Forum Interrogator

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Nov 4, 2012
    star 5
    Everyone got played, my problem is that in the end the Council yet again refused to believe they made a mistake and basically pretended that it was all part of some test and well, we're all cool now.
    And Ahsoka may be physically overpowered at times (but then again, who wasn't in this series?) but she certainly wasn't portrayed as wiser than Yoda.

    The point is to show that the Council actually did get too passive and distanced from reality, arrogant and too sure of it's own policies.

    Plagueis was right. :p
    WatTamborWoo likes this.
  9. Seerow SWTV★Mod

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2011
    star 6
    Ahsoka was anything but wise throughout the Fugitive Arc. If she was she wouldn't have gotten into a quarter of the mess she ended up in that landed her in a bogus trial.
  10. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    The Council had its issues, but I don't agree with you all that this arc showcased them. There is all this discussion about how wrong the Council was but no one has offered an alternative other than suggesting omniscience with "How dare they send Ahsoka to a farce of a trial!" and suggesting that they set themselves above Republic law by refusing to allow Ahsoka to be tried by anyone but themselves.

    And yes. Ahsoka was stupid in this arc but in the past she has been portrayed as too wise to need any measly rules (The Citadel arc) and apparently, capable of leading her own missions at age 16, which no other Padawan in Star Wars has done to my knowledge.
  11. cwustudent Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 25, 2011
    star 4
    Dooku Captured
    Shut up, Ahsoka. Nobody wants you in this episode.

    Good move, switching the cups, guys!

    The Gungan General
    Wait, didn't you switch cups earlier?

    "...if I didn't have to drag your bodies." I love this guy.

    I watched Jar Jar in Bombad Jedi. Palpatine was clearly annoyed. As much as I hate Jar Jar's presence in TGG (really, I hate him), I'll just pretend that Palpatine sent Jar Jar in the hopes he wouldn't return alive. But srsly, why Jar Jar??? I can accept his presence with Padme, as they both represent Naboo, but Padme was in Palpatine's office. I'm surprised she didn't jump at the chance to rescue her beloved Ani. I'd prefer to see Ahsoka come to Anakin's rescue, much like he tried to rescue Obi-Wan from Geonosis. Dooku could even put in another good jab. "Well, gentlemen, it looks like you're both captured. Who's going to save you now?""Me, Ahsoka Tano!"
    *Dooku face-palm-ing*

    Did Ahsoka ever meet Dooku? I don't think she did, but sometimes its hard to remember.
    Paparazzo and anakinfansince1983 like this.
  12. Darth Valkyrus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 12, 2013
    star 4
    I suspect Palps has always harbored a racist hatred of Gungans in general.

    He was referring specifically to the Gungans when he said:

    Last edited by Darth Valkyrus, Jun 9, 2013
    AkashKedavra_93 likes this.
  13. WatTamborWoo Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 22, 2011
    star 3
    Interesting. Never thought of that implication even though Palpatine was from Naboo and the Gungans said the people of Naboo thought themselves as superior. Good spot.
  14. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    This seems to be a good thread for a topic I'm bringing from another discussion:

    @InterestingLurker : What should have been done with Ahsoka in the Deception arc that wasn't done? Personally I thought they used her pretty well here. She found Obi-Wan, and her looking up at Anakin with tears in her eyes, let him know that he was (supposedly) dead. I also liked her concern for Anakin at Obi-Wan's funeral. The rest of the arc was about deceiving Anakin, and Obi-Wan going undercover, so I'm not sure how she was supposed to be used here.
    Last edited by anakinfansince1983, Jun 9, 2013
    AkashKedavra_93 likes this.
  15. 07jonesj Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2010
    star 4
    Ahsoka's use in the Deception arc was fine, I thought. Every character can't be at the forefront of every episode, and that arc was ultimately about Obi-Wan, Anakin and the Council.

    There are other episodes where Ahsoka is the main character, with Anakin and Obi-Wan having minimal roles. That's also fine.

    She does have a great line about Cad Bane's hat though.
  16. Darth Valkyrus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 12, 2013
    star 4
    I liked her little Eowyn moment at the end of Friends and Enemies.

    "I will kill you if you touch him."
    Last edited by Darth Valkyrus, Jun 9, 2013
    AkashKedavra_93 likes this.
  17. InterestingLurker Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 15, 2011
    star 4
    The arc should have been more inclusive towards Ahsoka because Obi-Wan was her friend as well and also Anakin's best friend and former mentor. Yet, Anakin's thoughts on the matter were explored more while Ahsoka's weren't even developed. She just sort... tagged along with Anakin, especially in "Friends and Enemies" and "Crisis on Naboo". The arc even had the chance to explore Satine's thoughts on the situation(which they should have) but what makes Ahsoka's case more annoying is that she's a more prominent character(and one of the main ones too) so it seems weird that the writers would just give her the shaft like that. I especially disliked the way she got knocked out in "Friends and Enemies" when the ship crashed. I mean, if the writers didn't want her to make Anakin's fight with bounty hunters her fight as well, they could have done it in a less silly way. Anyway, the writers should have given Ahsoka more involvement in the fight that ensued after the crash. As it were, she was just there to guard Anakin's unconscious body right after the fight was over. Like I said, Ahsoka's a main character and this should've been her conflict as well. She's more than just Anakin's sidekick. Actually, they even could've developed Ahsoka's relationship with Anakin more in that arc. But like I said, she was too much pushed to the sidelines in that arc. We didn't even get Ahsoka's reaction to Obi-Wan being Rako Hardeen. Quite sad, really.
  18. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    I'll go along with your last four sentences, but I prefer her as Anakin's sidekick. In fact, one thing I liked about the movie and the first two seasons is that Anakin had "met his match" with her so to speak; he had been given an apprentice with a similar stubborn and feisty personality. The last three seasons completely ruined that and led me to hate her character.
    Last edited by anakinfansince1983, Jun 9, 2013
  19. InterestingLurker Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 15, 2011
    star 4
    Ahsoka was never Anakin's sidekick. She was more than that. She was a friend to Anakin, Obi-Wan, Rex, and so on as well as a lesson to Anakin let go and learn patience. Like I've said before, she wasn't defined by her relationship to Anakin(which was a good thing, or else she'd end up like Satine). In fact, she had multiple relationships with many characters throughout the series. Her character would have been pretty ****ing boring if she were relegated to simply "Anakin's sidekick". She wasn't boring in the end, but the writers never brought her to her full potential.

    See this is why even though Ahsoka is my 19th favorite character in the Star Wars Saga, I still see Star Wars: Rebels as a second chance for her character.
    WatTamborWoo likes this.
  20. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    How does being Anakin's, Rex's and Obi-Wan's friend preclude her from being Anakin's sidekick?

    Satine's issues had nothing to do with Obi-Wan and everything to do with the fact that she went from being a decently strong leader of her planet to a ****ing wuss who could do nothing but stand there and say "Oh no!" when the Black Sun invaded.

    Sure, but that doesn't take away from why she was introduced as a character in the first place.

    I found her much more interesting early in the series when she was Anakin's match and a lesson for him on both what kind of apprentice he had been, and on attachment.
  21. pronker Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 28, 2007
    star 3
    Great idea for a thread. I've begun a chronological rewatch and am up to Gungan General.
  22. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Cool--you should post your reviews. :)
  23. pronker Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 28, 2007
    star 3
    Yeah! I'.. lll work something up.
  24. pronker Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 28, 2007
    star 3
    FRIDAY NIGHT FIGHTS aka TCW rewatch:

    Getting the meta out of the way: wow. A chronological rewatch while knowing the end of the series is ... different. First, Anakin is extremely likable and reasonable thus far, but most of all, he's born to be a warrior and even without Jedi automatically becoming Generals, he seems pretty much the Officer of the Day. Second, Obi-Wan is unlikable and I hadn't remembered that upon first watch ... with few exceptions, his vocal and facial expressions run from 'snarky' to 'snarkier'. I liked him better in later years. Ahsoka resembled some RL teens to me, so she got a bye straight off. s.1 more or less is the Anakin and Ahsoka Show, so let's go!

    [Animation-wise, in the beginning there were troubles with words beginning with 'p.' I can't presume to know how difficult that was to animate, and only can say that later on was improvement over characters simply being open-mouthed with 'p' words like 'pookums.' Lastly, I give the show an overall 10/10 because hey, I looked forward to it, taped it on an ancient VCR for rewatch, and enjoyed it five years later, and more than that from a TV show I cannot ask.]

    Cat And Mouse Bail doing his humanitarian thing with an indescribable accent, neat. Trench mustache, yeah! Looks like von Hindenburg. When he knew he was about to die, he closed his eyes. Awww.

    Hidden Enemy Christophsis is the ultimate sci-fi city, all glass. Who would want to live there? :oops:Ventress fights well against Anakin and Obi-Wan, with the Jedi making the most ungraceful plotz down through a floor ever.

    THEATRICAL RELEASE Anakin's big moment of introduction as the camera sweeps up to him and he jumps off the building to thrilling music, and onto octuptarra #1, soon demolished. Ventress' undress moment a +, as was Rex's codespeak to Anakin while under Ventress' capture. Ahsoka's attempt at making Anakin speak of his past when they were on Tatooine ...

    Clone Cadets 99 is the Heart of the show, naming Hevy, giving a glimpse of the clones' training in the citadel, which resembled the Box in s.4

    Supply Lines Jar Jar dances and saves the day; nice to see King Katuunko though did not know Toydaria was not in the Republic. Ima-Gun Di and Keeli opting to 'die well for the Twi-Leks,' remarkable and sadsadsad.

    Ambush "But I just got promoted!!!" Ah, droid humor. Loved bouncy Yoda and the clones calling droidekas 'rollers.' King Katuunko decides to join the Republic, well okay, if Yoda can disarm Ventress like that as evidence of Jedi superiority, sure.

    Rising Malevolence The happy singing salvage droid made me laugh

    Shadow of Malevolence Grievous is coughing, why? More droid good ones: "This is a lot more fun when they're not shooting back." Noticed that Malevolence resembles a shark. And that Anakin has quite the overbite.

    Destroy Malevolence "Mind the gap" when boarding train, hahahah. Also, Padme's painted-on chinos, hmm the animators had some fun. Liked Grievous' little insectile rollover thing he does so creepily.

    Rookies Obi-Wan shows a bit of humanity when asking Anakin 'when did you last sleep.' Oh, Cutup, we hardly knew ye ... or Hevy. Braves, gone too soon :_| But, the animated lips look better!

    Downfall of a Droid Ponchos! All over disguise, good for any size or circumstance ... A clone calls Ahsoka 'sir' well that seems to be the norm, as is 'Master' Shaak Ti. Anakin calls Ahsoka 'Pookums' and scrunches her against his side, to her disgust. Fart jokes, ha! [face_party]

    Duel of the Droids "We're all droids here" some unexpected fellow feeling from Grievous in this speech to little lost Artoo. Is this the first use of the term 'battlesphere'? Why did it make me think of the Vong? Loved the skydiving and was right with them as they maneuvered in midair, cheeks puffed. I didn't remember seeing anyone just yank the head off droids barehanded wow, kinda strange. Are they made of aluminum? Also, Anakin can't 'meet' Grievous until Revenge of the Sith so there is this constraint to be considered.

    Bombad Jedi Well, I laughed at this one a lot, even though the theme of 'let's make and keep our allies' on the Republic's side is serious. This episode and the ones preceding gave me the sense of a beginning war, with each side courting allies; way to go, chronological order! And Rodia is a place in which I would live, because as a sci-fi city, it is attractively designed and closer to nature than Christophsis. It would be fun to tame a giant slug. Uncle Ono speaks Basic when alone with his aide, who speaks only Rodian. Weird.

    Cloak of Darkness Dooku calls Asajj 'child', oddly paternalistic. And he stands up for her, nice to see this aspect of their relationship. Argyus deserved what he got, for that hairdo alone.

    Lair of Grievous Kit was absent for the last bit of Nahdar's training and missed his Knighting, well that would bite. Maybe Nahdar overcompensated in his revenge against Grievous to show Kit, um, something or other? A legless Grievous was completely creepy and not at all sympathy worthy; usually I can dredge it up for even a villain. Gor was his pet!

    Dooku Captured Obi's EVA got to me - so effortless, just like the way he a/got onto the ship and b/found Anakin with minimal trouble. Dooku shows he's not abreast of all his circumstances, witness the loss of his lightsabers to a relatively powerless group of pirates. Loved Obi-Wan's mind trick and the "I am an excellent shot!!" arrogance, gotta loveya no matter what, Obes. Dooku used the word 'godforsaken' which dropped me out of the show for a minute ...

    Gungan General Jar Jar against pirates, well, no contest, really. A coincidence that the energy torture field surrounding Obi-Wan and Anakin is heart-shaped?? I think ... um, not gonna say. "Too heavy ... drop Dooku!" hahahah. Dooku murdered two Weequay in his escape, chilling. And when Obi-Wan says to Hondo, 'Dooku knows where you live,' he manages to be warning and world-weary, as if he finds out or has in the past, that relatively mid-level bad guys like Hondo's bunch don't stand much chance against A-list baddies.

    Jedi Crash "Hey kid, hang on!" from clone to Ahsoka. A gunship is easy to fall out of, as Padme knows. Aayla may have been in serious circumstances and under pressure, but she sounds overbearing when she wants to know where Skywalker is 'we're depending on you.' As if more is expected of him than is realistic, or Jedi simply demand their Chosen One to be Superman *mixes fandoms.* The prospect of a smaller ship inside a larger one going to hyperspace unexpectedly is one neat idea, what would happen? Hadn't seen that in a story before.

    Defenders of Peace The Lurmen aren't so uncivilized that they cannot jibe back and forth with Durd, good to see some wisdom in their leader; he's staunch in his beliefs, but sure seems willing to lead his people to death without compromise. I hope elections are soon and he gets deposed, but really he seems more like a moral leader than anything. He'll probably lead them to their extermination someday [face_monkey] Particularly loved when the droids dance wildly upon hearing that the superweapon does not harm droids! A good comic moment. I am a sucker for h/c stories, so Anakin's injury and recovery were well-received.

    Trespass Now this one was as good as remembered: the eerie desertion of the station, the cold breaths of air coming from the characters, and little things like the wind blowing Obi-Wan's hood off until he snatches it back up --- neatly done animation. The music especially caught my attention as unusual for the series thus far, as did Senator Chuchi's 'Your Majesty' to the Chairman, an odd sort of address.

    Blue Shadow Virus Watched these last two this morning and Dr. Frankenstein caressing the vial, oooh, creepy, it's science at the expense of humanity *or its GFFA equivalent* Shaaks resemble ticks. Pepi is cute! Typho with Neeyutnee seemed okay as a character, as did she, still a bit odd that a Senator runs back to Naboo to find out the problem? Not a scientist with a tracking recorder of some sort? Droids must make noise, clanking around like they do. Radar ought to track them. And Obi-Wan, that was a great catch! The green hills look like they are in a video game, rather smooth, yes I know they were covered in green grass, but still, they looked smoother than is natural.

    Mystery of a Thousand Moons Following up on Naboo, and we see Obi-Wan noticing Anakin's distress over Padme and Ahsoka, as he maneuvers his ex-Padawan's emotions towards a solution of the problem rather than dithering over it. This happened several times in the ep. Once on Iego, Obi maneuvers Jaybo, too, handling him with more care than Anakin so as to get what was necessary to save Naboo and its inhabitants - way to go, you sly Negotiator, you. Also, you're kinder to Jar Jar at the end and he seems to be far from a pathetic life form to you know, even though he is gormless. Jaybo painted happy smileys on the droids, really funny part of the episode with Anakin automatically assuming they are about to harm him and Obi-Wan. The droid body count was 18. I thought Jaybo's VA was the same one for Petro in s.5, but no, upon check it is not -- they simply seem to be channeling Michael J. Fox.

    This was fun -
    anakinfansince1983 likes this.
  25. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Awesome, that was an entertaining read.

    "Padme's painted on chinos in Destroy Malevolence"...thank. You. All I kept thinking was that the animators were definitely all heterosexual men because I kept getting up close views of Padme's ass. I'm glad it wasn't my imagination.

    "Ponchos! All over disguise." LOL apparently.

    "Jar-Jar against pirates, no contest really." LOL

    "A gunship is easy to fall out of, as Padme knows." LOL again

    I loved Jedi Crash, I'm a sucker for hurt/comfort as well.