Clone Wars For Discussion of Old TCW episodes...

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by CT-867-5309, Nov 19, 2012.

  1. Revanfan1 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 3, 2013
    star 5
    Happens to the best of us. :p
  2. GGrievous Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2005
    star 5
    The final TCW arc makes little sense regarding Ahsoka running. In the beginning, Anakin and Ahsoka were pals and then all of a sudden Ahsoka had to run. (btw dem hypocritical lines in the first episode of the arc)

    Bad writing 101: The plot would've been over had Ahsoka returned to Anakin in the prison. But nah, they had to extend the plot and make Ahsoka run for the sake of having two more episodes. (also somersault, backflip, dodge 3243254325 stun blasts, ect)

    Poor Anakin received the middle finger at the end of the arc. All he wanted to do was to help Ahsoka throughout. (you could argue that she gave him the finger throughout, but the ending was the biggest finger of them all. She had to do it in front of his face.)

    Final conclusion: Anakin was the victim, not Ahsoka.
    Last edited by GGrievous, Sep 20, 2013
  3. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    A. ****ing. Men.

    I need something beyond "like" for this entire post, like a button for the "we're not worthy" emoticon. But especially that last line.
  4. Darth Valkyrus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 12, 2013
    star 4
    I don't agree.

    Ahsoka showed the Jedi Order / Jedi Council the middle finger, because they had shown her the middle finger, big time.

    Anakin was just caught in the middle. It wasn't his fault, and she didn't show him the middle finger, she certainly didn't "betray" him or anything like that, but because her and the Jedi Order's ruling body (and by extension, the order itself) were irreconcilable, if he stayed with the order, her separating from him was inevitable.

    She didn't do it because of him, she didn't do it to him. But because she was quitting that order, while he was staying with it (even though he wanted to quit... his attachment syndrome raising its ugly head again), what went down went down. It was a ****ed up situation.
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  5. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    In her opinion, she and the Order were irreconcilable. She had a choice there, it was not "inevitable" that she had to leave the Order.

    As far as "well, the Order did it first!"--that's not a justifiable excuse for behavior anywhere outside a toddler play date.

    The bottom line was that Anakin was the one she hurt the most, when he had done nothing but stand by her. I'm not buying into the idea that "well he should have just left the Order if he didn't want to be hurt by her behavior!" I can't even begin to understand that line of thought.

    GGrievous is right, Anakin is the real victim here. Ahsoka didn't give a flying **** about anyone but herself at the end of season 5; she certainly didn't care at all about Anakin, and there's really no way to explain away her behavior to convince me that she did.
    Last edited by anakinfansince1983, Sep 21, 2013
  6. Togruta Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 30, 2010
    star 4
    Much as I don't like Ahsoka (someone stop me).. she seemed pretty obviously sad to leave Anakin,shedding a tear and all.. hardly the signs of someone who didn't care. I still stand by my opinion that the Council didn't "give her the finger", but it wouldn't really be fair, or wise, for her to stay in a group she doubts/ no longer believes in, that takes the "deepest commitment", just to make one person happy.

    And there's really no reason why Anakin can't ever see Ahsoka again. He has a senator for a wife, Obi-Wan has some restaurant owner for a friend. Anakin and Ahsoka might actually have a better friendship without being Master and Padawan. If they ever see each other again, that is.

    ..And I guess all TCW episodes are considered "old" now?
    Last edited by Togruta, Sep 21, 2013
  7. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    And I don't think she should have stayed just to make him happy, but I think her decision to leave should have involved far greater factors and been much better thought out. I stand by my opinion that Ahsoka leaving in The Wrong Jedi looked like a teenage kid running away from home because her parents didn't like her boyfriend. (And anyone who wants to add a "parents turned her over to the police for a crime she didn't commit I'd run away too" speech, don't bother.) It looked very impulsive at best; she gave no indication in prior episodes of disagreeing with their overall philosophy.

    Had there been time spent on the issue, with Ahsoka having issues with being a Jedi overall (as opposed to a decision they made in one arc), discussing it with Anakin, Anakin trying to convince her to stay and her stating that she was sorry that he was hurt but she couldn't stay in the Order...I'd feel less like Anakin was the victim as well as more sympathetic towards her.

    And yes, I'd say all episodes are "old" as all the discussion threads are now buried other than the regrade threads.

    At some point this weekend I'll probably flagellate myself watch the Younglings arc.
    Last edited by anakinfansince1983, Sep 21, 2013
  8. GGrievous Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2005
    star 5
    I normally don't reply nor post here much, but I'll say this: Ahsoka was given a chance to return to him (in the prison, mind you, when it all began). It was her fault that she ran off like a fool instead of turning around. Anakin offered his support and help, but Ahsoka kept avoiding it. Then at the end of the arc, I'm supposed to feel sorry for her? Something isn't adding up right.

    Thanks for the good laugh, Dave. :p
    Last edited by GGrievous, Sep 21, 2013
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  9. Togruta Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 30, 2010
    star 4
    Yeah, maybe an episode where her doubts about being a Jedi interferes with her duty would've been a good follow-up, but all we have is this arc, and considering what she went through and that she could've just been sentenced to death, it's at least understandable that she wouldn't stop to think. Of course, it's really not portrayed as a hasty or poor decision on her part.. but you gots to have the dramaz!.. I think they both showed they were sorry and cared for one another though.

    The Younglings arc.. I liked the first episode, the others.. meh.
    Last edited by Togruta, Sep 21, 2013
  10. Dark Lord Tarkas Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2011
    star 4


    Ahsoka tells Anakin she's running instead of going back because at that point all the evidence makes her look guilty. Dem details!
  11. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    And running doesn't make her look guilty? [face_laugh]

    As I recall, he was trying to get her to come back so that he could help her prove her innocence. Her running was not only a dumb*** move, but it was, as GGrievous said, a rejection of Anakin's help.
    Revanfan1 likes this.
  12. hlc88 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 4

    A lot of people in her position would run. It's the natural thing to do because you are scared. Unfortunately for Ahsoka the evidence was there against her. Even without running, she'd have been convicted, IMO.

    - - - - -

    Two parts to this post, continuing with my chronological viewing today...

    Evil Plans
    What did I just sit through? A spa for droids? Cringeworthy. How did Bane know that one of Senator Amidala's droids would have the specs to the Senate?

    Hostage Crisis
    Bane takes Senators hostage to free Ziro the Hutt on orders from the Hutt clans. Anakin tries to prove to Padme that she is his life. Padme finds his lightsaber heavy... yet still manages to keep holding it and hiding it from view. Anakin does well without his lightsaber until he gets electrocuted. Anakin's swift thinking saves the Senators from being killed. Bane escapes with Ziro the Hutt. Enjoyed this one.

    Hunt for Ziro
    Obi-Wan and Quinlon Vos track down Ziro the Hutt: along the way they encounter the Gardulla, the big momma hut, and Cad Bane. Obi-Wan randomly gets attacked by a water snake?? which feels out of place in that scene, as if it was added in at the last minute making it feel slightly disjointed. Quinlon Vos is quite different... as Obi-Wan says 'he's crazy' but appears to have unique skills. We really should have seen him more. Ziro dies after being betrayed by his lover and that is just quite disturbing. A mixed episode for me.

    Up next: Ahsoka ages as I move (is it a year/two years later?) onto the later part of the timeline.
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  13. Dark Lord Tarkas Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2011
    star 4
    It does, but if she already looked guilty (which I think she did) I'm not sure how much more guilty that made her look or what real difference it makes to the story.
  14. Togruta Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 30, 2010
    star 4
    Running only led to more stuff happening to make her look guilty. It was also random for Ahsoka, considering she told a guilty-looking person to not run away in the previous episode..
    anakinfansince1983 likes this.
  15. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Even at her most irrational, she should have known that Anakin would do everything in his power to help her. It looked to me like she just wanted to fix this by herself because she thought she could or something.


    Sent from my iPhone. Technology hipsters.
  16. hlc88 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 4

    The majority of teenagers at Ahsoka's age do think like that. Her actions are realistic for someone who has grown up in this day and age.
    Last edited by hlc88, Sep 23, 2013
  17. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Sorry, she doesn't get a pass from me for being a "typical teenager" after I was supposed to believe that she was mature enough to lead missions with younglings in the same season. In fact, I seem to recall a lot of discussion about how she very much wasn't a typical teenager due to the war, etc.

    So what were the writers trying to convey? That she was a typical teenager, or that she wasn't? It seems that if "oh she's just a kid!" is supposed to work here, then maybe they shouldn't have tried such a 17-going-on-60 portrayal earlier.

    Consistency isn't too much to ask.


    Sent from my iPhone. Technology hipsters.
  18. hlc88 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 4
    Even people who are mature enough to have Ahsoka's responsibilities still think that they can fix things themselves. You liked Ahsoka in her S1/S2 personae, right? Her actions in S5 finale are a reflection of that, despite maturing she is still capable of making mistakes and thinking that she is right in some situations.
  19. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    I did like her then, and I actually felt some sympathy for her in this arc, until she closed Anakin's hand over her braid, at which point every ounce of that sympathy left.


    Sent from my iPhone. Technology hipsters.
  20. Revanfan1 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 3, 2013
    star 5
    I just finished Landing at Point Rain. I consider this one of the Top 5 episodes of the entire show. It's definitely the best in this season. It's one long, solid fight!
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  21. hlc88 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 4

    Hmmm... so she was supposed to forgive everybody and remain in the Order that could doubt her loyalty to them? Though she made it worse for herself, she was betrayed because not even the Council could believe her and she was one of their star Jedi Padawans, they shouldn't have written her off like that. Most people wouldn't be able to forgive that... most people wouldn't want to remain in an Order that could doubt them... even at Ahsoka's age.

    - - - - -

    Heroes on Both Sides
    Padme risks all to go to talk to an old Senator friend: Mina Bonteri. Ahsoka gets leered at by a boy. Ahsoka seems more mature, but can still be more outspoken. To stop the peace process, Dooku arranges an attack on Coruscant, timed for the critical vote. Typical. I like the new models for Anakin and Ahsoka.

    Pursuit of Peace
    Padme is nearly assassinated. Makes a great speech. And manages to prevent the deregulation of the banks. Her speech about the normal people was the best bit.

    Senate Murders
    Uncle Ono is murdered. Padme's usurps authority by beginning her own investigation with Bail. Police man guy seems not fit for his job. Is it really wise to just have robotic police? That's a load of jobs that could have gone to the citizens! I expect it is cheaper to run a robot force and employ one lackey to be in charge of them all. Lolo is the poisoner... It had to be one of the inner core of Padme's group. The Chancellor has an evil look on his face when Padme is taken hostage by Lolo. More troops are ordered to continue the war. The only flaw in this episode is that I get the impression it was meant to be set straight after the Mandalore Arc as Satine is leaving the office in the beginning and is seen at Ono's funeral. I think this episode could actually standalone after the Mandalore arc rather then be moved two years forward.

    Up next: Witches, Dooku, and wannabe-Sith's!
    Last edited by hlc88, Sep 24, 2013
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  22. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Yes.

    Or, alternatively, she can make the choice that she did, to walk out--but if the writers were expecting me to sympathize with her and view the Jedi as "big meanies" or something, they went about it entirely the wrong way.

    As GGrievous said earlier, as far as I'm concerned, Anakin is the real victim here. He did not deserve that.


    Sent from my iPhone. Technology hipsters.
  23. Darth Valkyrus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 12, 2013
    star 4
    Anakin is the victim, but it was the Jedi Council that victimized him, not Ahsoka Tano. They not only victimized him, they had been victimizing him for a while before the whole Ahsoka debacle even happened (Rako Hardeen), and they would go on victimizing him after it, for example telling him to spy on Palpatine which was particularly stupid.

    As for Ahsoka herself, I absolutely refute the ridiculous notion that she somehow owed it to Anakin to remain part of an order she had come to be totally at odds with.
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  24. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    The Jedi Council did not reject his help with an investigation and then fold his hand over Ahsoka's Padawan braid.

    I agree with you there, but those incidents had nothing to do with this arc.

    Not at all what I said. I don't think she should have walked out, period. The fact that Anakin was the one she hurt the most by doing so, just makes her walking out even worse in my mind.

    I reject the notion that the Council owed Ahsoka any more than an apology and reinstatement.

    I will never see her as a victim of anything more than an honest mistake.


    Sent from my iPhone.
  25. CT-867-5309 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 5
    I saw Anakin labeled as a victim and I
    [IMG]

    I just can't get involved.
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