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Clone Wars For Discussion of Old TCW episodes...

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by CT-867-5309, Nov 19, 2012.

  1. CT-867-5309

    CT-867-5309 Force Ghost star 6

    Jan 5, 2011
    Don't you have a little LACWAC IM thing already set up? Set a date and I'll try to show up, I have the movie on DVD.

    cwustudent, you should volunteer for an interview so we can get to know you more.
  2. KenobiSkywalker

    KenobiSkywalker Jedi Master star 4

    Sep 3, 2012
    Not a bad idea. Especially since it'll be a few weeks before we get a new episode.
  3. cwustudent

    cwustudent Jedi Master star 4

    Apr 25, 2011
    Only upon request.
  4. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 9 Staff Member Manager

    Mar 4, 2011
    That looked like a request to me. ;)
    CT-867-5309 likes this.
  5. Seerow

    Seerow Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Jun 7, 2011
  6. rumblewagon

    rumblewagon Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Sep 24, 2004
    The "he's like my father" quote I took as more of a resentful remark by Anakin.
    I also do not see how just separating people teaches them to let someone go - as in them learning it on their own.

    Yes, I agree that Yoda and Obi-Wan are aware of Anakin's attachment issues. They know Anakin are Padme are friends, but not aware of the extent of their relationship (attachment).

    But I can't believe Yoda is aware of the Tusken slaughter as I would think he'd toss Anakin out of the Jedi Order immediately. Unless there's something in the EU or a novelization I'm not aware of, I've never come across any evidence of Yoda knowing of the Tusken slaughter other than him hearing Qui Gon Jinn's voice yelling "Anakin" and Yoda saying, "Something terrible has happened. Anakin is in terrible pain."

    I think their reasoning is that Anakin will become more attached to Ahsoka (than to anyone else) and thereby learn how to let such a person go when the time comes (to let his padawan go).
  7. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 9 Staff Member Manager

    Mar 4, 2011
    Separating people forces "letting go," and in fact, is the only method that teaches it. And I assume that the "learning to let go" of Ahsoka is going to involve separating them at some point. How exactly do you "let go" of someone who is right there with you? In real life, people only "learn to let go" via separation, either death or the end of a relationship.

    That's why I think this is a monumentally bad idea which is going to have very ugly results. I think the Council will decide at some point that Anakin has become "too attached" to Ahsoka and will immediately ensure that she is kept away from Anakin permanently. I don't have an idea of specifics as to how that might play out, but it's wartime, they could assign her to the other end of the galaxy with instructions not to let Anakin know her location. (Those of you who want her to survive Order 66, this idea should make you very happy.) Such quick and hard-core Band-Aid-ripping is going to be, to borrow CT's drug addict analogy for a minute, like taking away a heroin addict's stash and letting the withdrawal symptoms happen with no medical help.

    Anakin was definitely attached to Obi-Wan, although he was a bit resentful of him. Unfortunately we don't see much of their friendship in the PT so it's not as obvious as, say, Anakin's attachments to Padme and his mother (which are different kinds of attachments anyway, romantic attachment tends to be stronger than friendship attachment regardless of circumstances).
  8. cwustudent

    cwustudent Jedi Master star 4

    Apr 25, 2011
    Well, I'll submit to an interview, tag me in the appropriate thread, and I'll get on that.
    Soooo...about those old TCW eps. You guys watched any others recently?

    Ah, I see what you're getting at. The end of Anakin/Ahsoka doesn't have to be painful: if Anakin does a good job (pretend ROTS doesn't exist), then Ahsoka will graduate to knighthood. He can handle Ahsoka going off to follow her own destiny.
  9. CT-867-5309

    CT-867-5309 Force Ghost star 6

    Jan 5, 2011
    Anakin has been portrayed as attached to Obi-Wan in pretty much all SW media from the era.

    Because you have no choice but to let them go. Sink or swim (Anakin would probably sink). How can someone teach you to let go of your feelings? Someone can preach that to you night and day, but you have to do it on your own.

    I don't see how Anakin could make it any more clear than he did early in AOTC. When he was talking to Obi-Wan about Padme he sounded absolutely obsessed.

    He flips his lid on the gunship, that's evidence of attachment.

    What? Ahsoka will become his greatest attachment ever, and he'll somehow magically let her go?

    When the time comes? Like when Ahsoka goes off on her own (even if she does it gradually, it could be done gradually with Obi-Wan) and they are separated? Thought that doesn't teach someone to let go?

    Why can't they do the same thing with Obi-Wan and Anakin? Anakin's time to leave Obi-Wan has already come, it just never happened. Anakin is in his early twenties and still living at home with Obi-Wan, it's time for him to move out.

    Letting go of Ahsoka would be like watching a kid leave the nest. Leaving Obi-Wan's side would be like moving out of your parent's house. I think they're both about the same, so why add one more attachment for Anakin to let go of?

    Doesn't make sense imo.

    Edit: And I pretty much just said what anakinfan said.
    anakinfansince1983 likes this.
  10. cwustudent

    cwustudent Jedi Master star 4

    Apr 25, 2011
    I should have chosen my words more carefully. Anakin's pain was so intense that Yoda felt it across the galaxy, right? Yoda saw right thru Anakin in TPM. Anakin cares about few people that much, and Yoda's pretty smart. Do you think he felt the deaths of the Tuskens, too? I don't actually know, just wondering.
  11. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 9 Staff Member Manager

    Mar 4, 2011
    GMTA. ;)

    I don't know either, but I think it's a possibility. Thinking of Obi-Wan feeling the deaths of all the people on Alderaan--did he feel their deaths because there were so many that it caused a "great disturbance in the Force"? Would he have felt a small number of deaths? Does proximity to the site have anything to do with it?

    We do know this: Anakin's pain and the "suffering and death" were so horrific that Yoda felt it all the way on Coruscant. The disturbance in the Force was great enough to call Qui-Gon back. And everyone on the Council knew that Anakin missed his mother; Obi-Wan knew he had been having dreams about her. And Obi-Wan also knew that Anakin had gone to Tatooine.

    I think Yoda easily put two and two together and got four.
  12. Seerow

    Seerow Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Jun 7, 2011
    It seems to me like Yoda was feeling the entire thing. It almost looks like Yoda is convulsing slightly like he distantly feels the physical pain.

    Ahsoka seems pretty advanced and gifted right from the start. I've seen it discussed before that the Jedi Council decided to give Ahsoka to Anakin to basically babysit. She does seem to shake her head alot at him now. Obi-wan had told her to keep an eye on Anakin before. I know it sounds sick but maybe Ahsoka is the one teaching him. Ahsoka learned to let go in the Onderon arc despite Anakin's influence. Maybe they figure she'll actually teach this to him when its time for them to part ways. She lets go and Anakin is supposed to learn by dealing with that. Watching by example? I figure they are just going to get forced apart eventually and its not going to be all "Mercy Mission" happy.
  13. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 9 Staff Member Manager

    Mar 4, 2011
    I hope you're wrong, because I think they've made Ahsoka too advanced and gifted already, to the point of being larger than life, and her biggest redeeming quality in earlier seasons was being a smartass.

    Your theory very well might be correct, I just hope it isn't.
    CT-867-5309 likes this.
  14. Seerow

    Seerow Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Jun 7, 2011
    It would do so much damage if Anakin's attachment to Ahsoka was entirely engineered.

    I figure they are going to get unhappily forced apart in the end actually. Either by death or some kind of rift.
  15. Neal

    Neal Jedi Youngling

    Dec 18, 2012
    They'll be forced apart for sure as she's not in ROTS. In the '08 movie Yoda said that Anakin would find it more challenging to let her go than actually teaching her. When I think of her vision of her adult self in Mortis, I think that it'll eventually catch up with her. Ahsoka had seen how Anakin was kinda brutal with that Zygerrian slaver in the "Kidnapped" episode (lightsaber ready to be activated at his throat) and when Obi-Wan faked his death.

    In the S5 trailer, a woman told Ahsoka that the Jedi Order is not what it used to be, then there's a scene of her kicking a couple of guards in the subway, and fighting Ventress (perhaps for a bounty). This got me thinking that whatever curveball Dave said Ahsoka will get set the stage of her eventual separation from Anakin and perhaps the Jedi Order. I mean, her first encounter with Lux already taught her that the war is not so black and white. Padme in ROTS told Anakin that she feared that the Republic was on the wrong side and maybe Ahsoka became aware of this fact sooner than everyone else.

    Back to the Mortis vision, I think as the series nears its very final conclusion, Ahsoka will probably observe Anakin toying more and more w/ the dark side to the point where she PERSONALLY feels it crosses the line, validating her prophetic vision, and she might take the effort to distance herself from him, fearing she'd have no future.

    Now I know that a lot of people don't really like Luxoka, but I think Lux can play a pivotal role in the final outcome of her fate in TCW. The Onderon arc comes to my mind here, esp when she had to deal with her feelings for him. It strikes me as odd when Anakin told her to put purpose before feelings and that he understood her, seeing how he actually has a secret wife---sweetly sympathetic, but also hypocritical. If Ahsoka somehow catches Padme & Anakin + discovering their marriage, I think she can be somewhat disappointed in Anakin too (saying one thing, but do another), further driving a wedge b/w them though she probably won't report to the Council. She probably then doesn't feel so bad anymore about her attachment to Lux, or maybe Anakin even encourages her to be with Lux b/c they're on the same boat and he doesn't want her to suffer the way he and Padme do. So, PERHAPS, rather than not entirely acting on her feelings at all (like Obi-Wan) or violating the Code behind the Council's back (like Anakin), she MAY choose to leave the Order for love. Anakin supports Ahsoka's decision, but the Council's not happy--> thus the mistrust b/w the Council and Anakin in ROTS. That can also explain his complaining to Padme that he was tired of hiding their relationship. Such a Disney ending for Luxoka...oh wait...Disney owns the franchise now LOL.

    OR, Anakin doesn't keep in touch with Ahsoka anymore after she's w/ Lux because it will be an unpleasant reminder of a life that he could've had with Padme, but o well too late. It can be an upsetting farewell for him, but it's still something he can make peace with. If Ahsoka dies, he would've been A LOT angstier in the ROTS, I think.

    The reason why I feel strongly about the role that Lux will play in her fate is b/c I see Ahsoka's character as both a foil and a mirror to Anakin's. When they first introduced her, I would've never thought that the producers would give her a love interest and then along came Lux and I was like, "Oh...this is interesting." Now, Padme was instrumental to Anakin's fall b/c of their attachment and it'll definitely be interesting to see how his padawan deals with her version of Padme in Lux. So just as attachment becomes a huge issue for Anakin, it'll be a big issue for her too. If she ends up with Lux w/out violating the Code (and leaves the Order), it gives a fresh, new solution to the dilemma rather than the usual choices of not acting on the feelings VS secretly violating the Code. Too far fetched I guess, just my opinion o well.

    If Ahsoka dies, they better make it satisfying and worthwhile....make her death heroic, but also show how happy she is as a Force ghost to lessen the trauma that her kid fans will get LOL. I mean, yeah, it will push Anakin one step closer to the dark side for sure. I know that Disney probably won't force the writers to NOT kill Ahsoka, but if they feel it will lead to the loss of the younger fans, I think they can go against it too. Lol dunno anymore.
  16. Seerow

    Seerow Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Jun 7, 2011
    Hello Neal. Welcome to LACWAC. There are alot of great thoughts on Ahsoka.

    I used to think Lux was the vehicle for taking Ahsoka out of the equation in time for ROTS. He was introduced both to give her some development by causing her to see shades of gray in the war and how some mama's boy on the Separatist side was effected by war. Lost his dad, ya know? Then shortly after lost his mom and became a this guy who didn't really know his own butt from a hole in the ground and ending up with Vizsla's arm around his shoulders. And to be a budding love interest which. In "An Old Friend" toward the end when Lux gets into the escape pod there is definite spark there. Then comes Onderon and the lame love triangle and instead of Lux and Ahsoka getting together which might have caused me to barf the popcorn I was eating. Ahsoka just got over him and gave him up. This is despite Anakin's influence. It seems to me Lux has fulfilled his purpose and is likely going to be put on a bus now. That's to bad since I liked the guy. One of my beefs with Onderon is it just didn't do much for the lovable idiot Lux was, now he is just an idiot but that's another rant.

    Ahsoka early on was kinda a mirror of Anakin but as she had gained experience and grown more lethal Ahsoka has unfortunately seemed to mature beyond him IMO. I know its not popular but I could see Ahsoka getting knighted at any time. Far as I can tell only her age is holding her back. She has the skills, is completely mellow now, and seems smarter beyond her years than ever. Not a fan of this, just sayin'. She was always gifted and maybe this is just average for a Padawan or maybe she was selected for him because she was advanced. I don't think Ahsoka is advanced just because she looks cool wielding two lightsabers or because she can talk to wookies. I've always been cool with that. TCW's storytelling is done in snapshots of important events. The training just isn't important enough to get screentime and its assumed viewers will think for themselves that Ahsoka is practicing like friggin Tommy Oliver all the time. Makes sense when you don't sit your can infront of a computer all the day, watch TV, and play Farmville. I've always thought she wielded a high level of intellect and incredible focus despite her snarky attitude. I think that's why she was selected for Anakin specifically. She is taking care of him. Then when the time comes she'll know how to let go and that's supposed to teach Anakin.

    The trailer is super interesting there, that's most likely the mysterious season finale with the woman's voice and Ahsoka attacking the red clones. I do think Ventress will play apart of that. My prediction, and don't take it very seriously because I'm usually wrong it seems, is that Ahsoka is going to get framed for having something to do with the temple attack. Then Ventress will be bounty hunting her because of that. Not only that but I think the scenes of angry Anakin and Plo Koon together in the underground will actually be part of their own search for Ahsoka. You saw the Young Jedi arc right? There is this rumored Jedi temple attack. Then in the trailer it so happens there are six little coffins at the funeral. I wonder if TCW is willing to do a mindscrew like that? It may simply be something that comes out of the picture of the anti-war protest.

    I think Ahsoka's older self on Mortis was a ghost giving advice. She might indeed live long enough to be an occasional reoccurring character in a Dark Times reboot of TCW. I've always thought the best way to break Anakin and Ahsoka up would be for them to simply have a falling out. Ahsoka does get into some trouble. Tosses Anakin under the bus for it. Gets reassigned to Plo Koon. Anakin loathes both of them, doesn't have reason to mention her in ROTS. I think Plo's clone commander Wolffe is the most likely candidate to execute order 66 on Ahsoka anyways.

    And I just don't have the attention span to read this over right now, good luck.
  17. Neal

    Neal Jedi Youngling

    Dec 18, 2012

    Hi Seerow! Thanks for the welcome :)

    I agree that Lux is being put on the shelf at this point in season 5 for now, but I'm not sure if he's done serving his purpose in Ahsoka's development. I thought that Ahsoka got over her attachment to Lux by the last ep of the Onderon arc too...then I read the IGN review of Tipping Points. According to that reviewer, Ahsoka still had feelings for Lux, but she was just A LOT more covert about it...I don't know if that reviewer was that desperate for them to be romantically involved or if he was actually accurate.

    Re the spoiler: I've heard of the theory that Ahsoka got framed for something and Ventress pursued her for a bounty. I know what you mean by the angry Anakin, but angry Plo Koon--don't recall that in the trailer. The coffins in the funeral are not thaat "little" IMO and so I think those are adult Jedi, not the younglings in the Young Jedi arc.

    Anakin and Ahsoka have a falling out is totally plausible, though I'd rather they part amicably. Those two have such a great sibling relationship it'd be a shame for them to bitterly separate, tho I can see that happening. Another reason for them to fall out other than those I've listed already in my 1st post (finding out about Anakin and Padme + distraught by Anakin's increasingly disturbing behaviors) is their views on the war will evolve in the opposite direction. It seems that even until ROTS Anakin still thinks of the Separatists as the bad guys before he turns on the Jedi, while Ahsoka has now more or less understood that it's not that simple. Who knows....gnite, Seerow, thx for the exchange of thoughts.

    Since this is a thread about old episodes. I'm going to ask we keep posts about episodes yet to air in Spoiler tags.
    Seerow likes this.
  18. Seerow

    Seerow Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Jun 7, 2011
    Your welcome. I like your style. =)

    I don't put much into the IGN or TFN reviews. I go by what I feel and often by the insights I gain from posters here. Far as I could tell Ahsoka had successfully moved on and let go fairly early on in "Tipping Points". She was completely cool with Lux and Steela having their moments together. After Steela's death Lux still didn't seem interested in Ashoka (not surprisingly, this kids lost alot of folks) while Ahsoka's wheels are busy turning about the war. If we see Lux I think its more likely it would have something to do with a political episode. Would be interesting if as a senator his mind changes about the Republic rather quickly when he has an up front seat to the corruption. Personally I wanted Lux to meet Rex more than anything. I thought that would be interesting since clones killed the guy's dad and Rex being the most developed clone trooper who once spared a dad could have his biggest epiphany yet.

    I didn't mean to say Plo Koon looked angry just that he was there. Its a bet him and Anakin aren't getting along in their pursuit (if that is what is going on) IMO. From the angle the coffins look small and that their are six of them is suspicious. TCW has killed off kids before. I point to the Padawan in "Monster" and off screen in "Revenge". Still it could just be six random Jedi. I'm not sure who would be available to kill of that is of any importance.

    Ahsoka switching sides would definitely make things bitter. Anakin might turn his back on the girl. However it seems like Ahsoka sees flaws in both the Separatist and the Republic. I don't think she is very likely to join them. Trust me, I'd love to see a Jedi switch sides. Ahsoka and Anakin really don't even need to part ways. It could be as anti-climatic as Ahsoka is out on an easy mission during the events of ROTS and Anakin simply had no reason to worry about her and the weighty stuff in the movie consuming his attention instead. I do tend to think, unless Ahsoka's death is avenged and Anakin gets away with it, her death at the end of the series would be to close to ROTS and Anakin would be in panic mode from the start of the movie instead of the more upbeat guy he regresses away from with his fall. Yeah, who knows, anything could happen and thatd the fun of it right? Goodnight Neal and it was a pleasure discussing this with you. If you'd like to continue this is getting OT for this thread. We can pick this up in Ahsoka's fate thread here:
  19. CT-867-5309

    CT-867-5309 Force Ghost star 6

    Jan 5, 2011

    The opening of the episode is one of the relatively few times we see B1 battle droids commanding capital ships on their own and they managed to pull off the ambush reasonably well. Then it's total stupidity for the rest of the episode.

    I have to say Yoda was kinda getting on my nerves this time. Everything was "we must". Must must must. Do this we must, do that we must. I know he's a teacher, but does everything he says have to be a lesson? It got tiresome real fast for me this time. I think that had a significant impact on the way I viewed this episode. Even Yoda toying with the B1s, making them shoot themselves was tiresome, because I realized that he could just own them all in like two seconds with a more conventional approach.

    The droid humor was awful, as always. I know it's a Star Wars tradition for the mooks to have terrible aim, but this was just sad. The clones are just standing out in the open with no cover only about 10 meters from the droids and the droids can't hit them. SMH.

    I did find Yoda picking up the B2 and using him against his will to be pretty cool, though.

    I noticed for the first time that they used Yoda's theme during the pep talk in the cave, I enjoyed that.

    Alright, I still love it when Yoda pinballs around. A lot of people hate it, they say that Yoda using a lightsaber makes him seem like less of a Master. I think Yoda going from hobbling old man to hyped up pinball is an incredible display of Force mastery, we don't see anyone nearly as fast or as acrobatic as Yoda, not even Anakin. I think it's Yoda's most impressive Force display in the movies, even more impressive than lifting the X-Wing out of the swamp.

    Yoda casually dominating Ventress with the Force was just awesome. Nika was excellent, as always.

    I just didn't enjoy this episode as much as I have in the past. 7/10
  20. Dark Lord Tarkas

    Dark Lord Tarkas Jedi Master star 5

    Apr 29, 2011
    You have a point with Yoda in this episode, but I tend to forgive the flaws because of how well it bridges his character in the PT with his character in Ep. V (before Luke knows who he is). We see sides of him that go in both of those directions and make the character feel more whole for me, whereas for most if not all his appearances in the PT it's pretty difficult to think of him ever being that guy from his early appearances in Ep. V. I agree that him going from cane-clutching geezer to flying pinball is great fun.

    I absolutely agree on the droid humor - it's a definite aura-killer much of the time. TCW film and Ep. I show how silent battle droids are the best. From when I first started watching a show I realized there two things about it I wasn't going to like at all but that I would have to put up with to enjoy other things about the show, and those two things are droid "humor" and the existence of Ahsoka.

    Not trying to make excuses for these things, just saying why they don't bother me as much as they otherwise might despite them definitely being flaws in my view.

    I've always noticed the use of Yoda's theme in this episode, perhaps because KK has so badly starved us of any JW. That could make probably any moment great, but I think they selected the perfect moment for it which really makes it shine, when he's talking to the clones about how he can feel the differences between them in the Force. I know that's not your favorite topic, CT, but it's something I would have liked to have been addressed in the PT and didn't so it's cool to see it. And compared to later episodes of TCW that get more in-depth on that subject, it actually seems kind of quick and in-passing rather than an important point to the episode. It can be looked at as saying more about Yoda than the clones IMO.

    The altercation between Ventress and Yoda and the very end is full of own. Yoda messes with her so bad, it is indeed awesome.

    This is a favorite of mine, and I've used it a few times to show PT-haters that TCW is better, and after seeing it none of them disagreed. I probably give it a 9. It might deserve a 10 but I feel the series has raised its standards since then. This doesn't have anything mind-blowing, but it does most of what it does really, really well.
  21. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 9 Staff Member Manager

    Mar 4, 2011
    I really liked that the series started out with a Yoda-centric episode. Yoda is an enigma and we only see him in the films as a secondary character in various scenes, meaning that he's seen as the "wise one" in scenes in which we're supposed to focus on the other characters reacting badly. In the OT, Luke on Dagobah being told in not so many words that he has no ****ing idea what it's really like to be a Jedi, in TPM, Anakin being called on his fear, and in ROTS...well, let's not even go there.

    This episode was just Yoda and the clones, Yoda vs. the droids, Yoda and Ventress, and Yoda being the diplomat with the Toydarian king. Seeing Yoda as the only Jedi for 22 minutes was different, and I liked it.

    That said, I found it hilarious the way other characters reacted to him. The Toydarian king was impressed, not so much because Yoda was Yoda, but because he was a Jedi and he was in awe of Jedi. The clones were expecting him to react like a regular soldier would, of course had no clue about the Force, and their comments along the lines of "Um, General?" repeated multiple times during the series.

    And the dude sat down and meditated in the middle of a ****ing battle field, with B2s aiming blasters at him. Holy. ****. I've watched Yoda in Star Wars for 32 years and that still floored me, especially when the end result of his meditation was levitating the battle droid (a la levitating Luke's ship, or Luke levitating 3PO) and using him against himself.

    The part in which Yoda reads each of the clones using the Force: the clones in AOTC were meant to "think creatively" but also "genetically modified to obey any order," which I found disingenuous. It was interesting that Yoda saw them as individuals with unique personalities, whereas to many other characters, they were most likely considered as expendable as the droids since the Republic only needed to call Kamino and order more. I don't have strong feelings on either side of the "clones as people" vs. "clones as flesh-covered droids" debate that I've seen around here; I've just found the debate itself interesting. And to me the best part of that scene was the clones giving Yoda and each other the "WTF is he talking about?" look.

    Yoda snatching Ventress' sabers, then giving them back to her and giving her the chance to take off, while calling her a coward in the meantime...that was awesome.

    And yeah, battle droid humor was lame. I don't always think so, I remember sort of liking it in the Malevolence arc (although I'll see how that plays out upon re-watch) but I wasn't feeling it here. It looked like a bad repeat of 3PO's battle droid lines on Geonosis.

    Togruta and rumblewagon like this.
  22. CT-867-5309

    CT-867-5309 Force Ghost star 6

    Jan 5, 2011
    Malevolence arc.

    Rising Malevolence

    Don't have much to say other than I like the Malevolence. I like superweapons and this one works for me.

    Sometimes I forget just how many people die in these space battles. I believe Plo's group consisted of three Venator-class Star Destroyers, which if you go by EU numbers each one has a crew of 7,400 and also carries 2,000 clone troopers for ground operations, repelling boarding parties, etc. That's 28,200 people on those three ships. I believe only a few escape pods even managed to launch and of those only Plo's survived. So, that's like 28,000 dead right there in that one very short battle. The destructive potential of the Malevolence is impressive, imo. Even if the EU numbers are wrong, surely each ship must have at least a few thousand people (People? More like human men only) on board.

    The episode was entertaining enough, the Malevolence's bwwwoooooooong ion cannons are cool, Plo shows compassion for clones, some nice flying in the Twilight and Ahsoka finds Plo with the Force. 6/10

    Shadow of Malevolence

    By far the best of the arc, imo. This one also shares similarities with ANH. The hangar shots of the Y-Wings were very similar to the hangar shots on Yavin. The attack on the Malevolence reminded me of the trench run in many ways, especially the chatter, but it was hit and miss. The shots from the Y-Wings bubble turrets were really cool. I'm a fan of the Y-Wings, especially TCW's version with the bubble turrets (I just love bubble turrets, so WW2, a feature unique to that era) so I enjoyed seeing them again. They actually included a few lines about faster hyperdrives being able to cut down on distance traveled, which was an explanation of Han's "12 parsecs" line from ANH.

    I think Tarkas pointed it out before, but I definitely noticed the Wrath of Khan music this time. I thought it was fine, and the nebula jamming sensors was WoK, too.

    I thought the Neebrays were very cool and a nice addition to the Star Wars galaxy.

    I was all over Shadow Squadron's "Minimum casualties, maximum effectiveness", it was nice to see clones concerned with war and not their haircuts.

    This arc continued with Ahsoka's ability to see the future that we saw in the movie. It just gets ridiculous at times. She's so smart, I get it.

    Dooku planning to attack the medical center was eeeeeeeeeevil, which I like, though it doesn't make much sense. More on that later.

    I noticed that TCW tends to end its episodes with our heroes engaging in excessive boasting. I know it's supposed to be fun banter, but they fail at that and it comes off as more like moments of douchebaggery. Maybe they should mix in more humble "all in a day's work" attitudes, they do this stuff every week and should be used to it by now. I liked the inclusion of the Force theme and thought the score was very good overall. 9/10

    PS: A little crossover from the movie discussion thread. While watching this episode, you know what I realized? That TCW has better space action than the PT. That's just sad, a cartoon shouldn't be able to compete with Star Wars movies. The only space action in the PT worth a damn was the Obi-Wan and Jango chase through the asteroid field in AOTC, which was quite good, worthy of the OT. TPM has the running of the blockade, which was very short and only noteworthy because it was R2's heroic intro, and the disaster of a space battle over Naboo. AOTC only has the one mentioned. I thought the Battle of Coruscant in ROTS was a total mess, it's way too cluttered. And for some reason, we follow Anakin and Obi-Wan around, even though they don't do much other than get shot at once by missiles. Really, that's it? The broadside was nice. Some people don't like the buzz droids, but I'm cool with the gremlins. I don't like the way they were used (missiles that fly past their target instead of just exploding?), but I'm over that aspect of it. Sorry for the tangent.

    Destroy Malevolence

    A nice demonstration of the Malevolence's massive size and its ability to take a beating to start the episode, unfortunately it's mostly downhill from here.

    Even worse than the movie, Padme is forced into the story. She's part of the PT Big 3 so they probably felt like they had to include her, but they couldn't have found a worse way to do it. Palpatine is the Supreme Commander, he should know where the Malevolence is, so him sending Padme right in its path makes zero sense, it's completely stupid and should expose Palpatine. The Malevolence is in big trouble and Palpatine just happens to send Padme right in its path to be taken hostage so Anakin can call off the attack, how convenient. They tried to give some explanation that Padme was sent to negotiate with the IGBC, but it was garbage. We get some very contrived dialogue with Padme telling the Republic forces to continue their attack, just so we can have Anakin call it off while Plo and Obi-Wan inexplicably stand by. Why didn't they step in? GAH! Malevolence arc ruined.

    Cat Taber using her Mission Vao voice for Padme didn't help.

    As Tarkas has pointed out, the firefighter droids not being able to handle a firehose is just bone-headed.

    Kenobi: Spinning is not flying.
    Anakin: But it's a good trick.

    I know they're making fun of themselves here, but it's not funny.

    3PO is once again a total detriment to those around him. Why would Kenobi go out of his way to attempt to rescue him?

    Kenobi has a kinda cool moment when he rolls the droidekas with the Force, taking out entire columns of battle droids. Grievous has an even cooler moment when he stops a droideka with his foot and then picks it up and slams it. Sometimes it's cool to see Grievous smash stuff, sometimes it gets old, like it does in this arc with him punching battle droids every scene.

    In a bit of ANH aversion, Kenobi tries to deactivate the Malevolence's hyperdrive and fails.

    In perhaps an ROTS aversion, Kenobi dives leg first at Grievous and does not get dismembered.

    A rare sighting of Grievous giving chase in a starfighter was almost surreal.

    The escape from the Malevolence as a whole was dismal, imo. I think they used ANH's Death Star escape as inspiration, but they didn't quite capture it, imo.

    Though I liked the Malevolence, I was disappointed they didn't do more with it. It's a superweapon that can take out entire fleets, why use it for hit and run? Why use it to attack a defenseless medical station, you can attack a medical station with anything. Why not use it for a full out assault? Why didn't Grievous grab a few capital ships for support and head straight for the largest concentration of Republic ships he could find? He could take them all out with one shot, instead of destroying a few ships at a time. Dooku and Grievous seem to know the Republic is going to hound the Malevolence, so why not use it to its full potential before you get picked apart by small attack groups? Why are Grievous and Dooku trying to keep it a secret instead of using it? Why not use the surprise you have to launch a more ambitious attack? Why not head straight for Coruscant? You'd think they'd be more ambitious with a superweapon.

    Disappointing end to an arc with potential. 4/10

    That's 19/30 for the entire arc, for a 6.33 average. Such a shame, it could have been so much better.
    cwustudent likes this.
  23. cwustudent

    cwustudent Jedi Master star 4

    Apr 25, 2011
    I'm watching the S4 BR, and I noticed something new today in Escape From Kadavo. Before I get to that, I have to say, in this arc particularly, I LOOOOOVE the animation in Dooku's face. His sneers are so dead-on! All right, holo-Dooku says, "I wanted to say a proper farewell before Keeper Agruss puts you to death." Unfortunately, the story cuts to Anakin. Personally, I'd rather hear what Dooku has to say to Kenobi, his "grandson" if you will. I like to think Dooku actually holds a great deal of respect for Obi-Wan. Or perhaps Dooku just wanted to gloat.
    Valairy Scot, hlc88 and Seerow like this.
  24. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 9 Staff Member Manager

    Mar 4, 2011
    Rising Malevolence:

    This episode reminded me of why I started enjoying TCW in the first place.

    The ion canon, which if I am not mistaken, is the same or very similar to the ion canons used by the Rebels on Hoth in ESB. Very cool to see its introduction.

    Anakin being a hypocrite getting irritated with Ahsoka for speaking her mind in the Council chambers was hilarious, as is her calling him on his hypocrisy later while he covered his ass and showed her how to be a good rule-breaker at the same time.

    On the other hand, the clones argued with Plo and he took their concerns in stride, as well as reminding them that they weren't expendable to him. One of the best lines in the show, that one.

    "Anakin has just redeployed himself again." LMAO.

    I liked seeing Ahsoka's origins, with Plo finding her. I also liked seeing a focus on Plo, whom we don't see much of in the films.

    I could have lived without the droids floating in space with flashlights on their heads but overall this episode had few downsides.

    cwustudent likes this.
  25. cwustudent

    cwustudent Jedi Master star 4

    Apr 25, 2011
    Quite often I think of this show's chronology. As I've been watching S4, I thought I'd go back and watch old ones, too. Well, I'm aware of the official chronology, but I wondered if certain episodes could be watched out of order. For instance, Trespass could be watched first, since Ahsoka is not present.

    I wondered if the same would be true of the "Dooku Captured" duo. After Obi-Wan rescues Anakin, they discuss when Anakin will be a master. At first, I wondered if this could be a lead-up to Anakin getting a Padawan. Unfortunately, no - he meant, a master of the Force. Ahsoka rescues them, and then they take the Twilight to Florrum. I also wanted this duo to take place before the movie, because Dooku gets captured! He mentions in the S3 Nightsisters arc, the Jedi have tried to arrest him before, which could be a nod to S1. It would also emphasize the fact that he frequently used Ventress as a bodyguard against Jedi capture. If she does his dirty work, he can stay safe in Sep territory.

    I don't think I was around the forums, when these eps aired, so forgive me if this was discussed long ago.