Amph For Justice, For Peace, For the Future- We Have Come Home: Babylon 5 (The Road Home animated film)

A little late to the convo, but since I finally was able to see Lost Tales yesterday I figured I'd share my thoughts. I was highly disappointed, and this was easily the worst canonical B5 work published, or at the very least it is neck and neck with River Of Souls for that honor.

The first story, the Lochley story, is not a B5 story in any way. Besides the fact that as a story unto itself it is meandering and far too preachy, as a B5 story it has no place in the B5 universe and doesn't feel at all like a story that belongs in the B5 universe. The second story, Sheridan's, is much better than the first, but it's merely a decent story, not a great one. The inconsistencies with B5 continuity bugged me (such as the Sheridan riding in on a Stafury, the ship he used to win the Shadow Wars line, when the Starfuries had next to nothing to do with the Shadow Wars and if they really wanted a symbol then a White Star should have been the choice). But, as a story it was okay, but nothing special, although I really couldn't stand that someone that is supposedly as enlightened and intelligent and as great of a strategist as Sheridan immediately accepts Galen's claims that Vindiri must die at face value and up until the last moment is going to go ahead with them. So Sheridan's story felt like a B5 story and it belongs in the universe, but it just wasn't a good story.

All in all I'm still happy that Lost Tales was made, but I hope the future stories feel more like how B5, Crusade, LOTR, and the canon books made the B5 universe feel. An auspicious start to the series, but hopefully it will get better.

Good discussions throughout by the way, I haven't had the chance to read the entire thread yet, I am working my way through it though. When I am done maybe I will chime in with my thoughts on other matters discussed within.

Cheers,
Bill

Edit: I really do need to start purchasing those script books as they sound absolutely enthralling, but alas money is tight so they may have to wait for a bit.

 

I'm in the process of watching through all of B5/Crusade/LOTR yet again, and I just came upon this episode. Man oh man, I had forgotten just how bad this episode makes the Rangers, the IA and maybe even JMS out to be. This whole idea of circumventing the local authorities, the law, and justice for the idea of revenge through terror is quite sad indeed.

The Rangers are supposed to be a peace keeping force, the guardians of the light in the galaxy that is the IA. But in this episode they go above the law to inflict revenge and terror upon a man, and they crack jokes as if their actions are quite cavalier while partaking in their atrocious actions. Now, sure, the man was not a good man and he had beaten the Ranger nearly to death. However what should separate the Rangers from your common thug or fascist zealot is their ability to enforce the peace through the law and the true tenets of justice. Instead they do the exact opposite and take on the persona of Nazi Germany's SS in the process. This episode doesn't make the Rangers honorable or endearing in any way, instead it paints them as terror mongers, willing to exact their own idea of revenge upon the populace in whatever manner they see fit. Fairness doesn't matter, the law doesn't matter, justice doesn't matter, due process doesn't matter, and in the end because they are willing to do this the Rangers lose a lot in my eyes.

This takes us to Delenn, who not only goes along with the Mora'Dum, but pulls rank to make sure it is enforced. Are we really supposed to believe that a character that has spent the better part of the last 10 years doing everything in her power to show people the mistake of enacting revenge would now do the same? This is the same character that shouted for revenge upon the death of Dukhat and then realized the error of her ways and cried out that the needless death and seeking of revenge stop. Despite building that very important facet into her character here we have her going against all of that and seeking for revenge right away and hiding behind laws and tradition to make sure that revenge is meted out.

JMS on the other hand tries to hide behind the message he has put forth with the clumsy Garibaldi scene in the station house with Zack at the end of the show. His whole "The Minbari do this and then this and then this" is a very vein attempt at somehow justifying their actions throughout the episode. I fully believe in the SS comparison that I put forth earlier, and one must wonder if this is how JMS views the ultimate police force as actually working? Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge JMS fan, but I can't help but balk at his apparent idea of how the Rangers should work, and honor and justice. If it had been one or two Rangers that think this way then that I could buy, beings will be beings after all, but to have it built in as a group standard and to have it presented as good thing is not something I can get behind. All this episode did was paint the Rangers, Delenn, and the IA in a bad light and it's quite shocking in how bad of a light it put them in.

 

Using psychological aspects is fine and dandy, but becoming a fascist group that believes they are above the law for the sake of revenge is not. Whatever JMS may have intended the Rangers come across like a group of revenge seeking fanatics that are far from the guardians of peace.

 

The terror aspect, in this case, was about "how to face it" and had a personal background - JMS was at some time mugged almost to death by a street gang and to overcome that experience, he decided that he had to face that place again.

I think that in season 5 the Rangers were intentionally taken down a bit from their hero status. This happens in the episode with Findrell, when we find out that Findrell had joined the Rangers for the wrong reasons, we also find out Marcus had joined the Rangers for the wrong reasons and arguably also Lennier. If LotR had made it into a series, I would have expected that it would have deconstructed the Rangers further, in the pilot the moronic "never retreat" doctrine, the protest by David and the annoying repetion of the "we live for the one, we die for the one" mantra at least suggests that to me. I think that much as the Jedi in the Star Wars PT, the Rangers are an elitist group that has become a bit arrogant and developed a few doctrines of their own that are questionable.

I'll have to rewatch the episode if there's something I haven't caught, but from memory I agree that in Learning Curve, while in part it may have been intended to carry this deconstruction of the Rangers a bit further, it came across all wrong. JMS mentioned it's one of those episodes he wouldn't mind if it fell from a pier. While it is somehow typical Minbari to insist on choosing their own methods of dealing with such problems, since the Rangers are kind of the blue helmets of the IA, this behaviour is inexcusable. What's worst for me is the part with Delenn.

 

Exactly, if the story hadn't featured Delenn's character devolving so much and the idea of the Rangers as an out of control group of zealots had later been continued I wouldn't be so harsh on it. As it is though it stands on its own and has not been followed up on, so it gives the impression that it is perfectly fine for the Rangers to act the way they do.

 

Well, in B5 more than in any other series I'm aware of character's perspective isn't storyteller's perspective, not even with the "good guys". This is even true for Sinclair, Sheridan and Delenn. None of them is a flawless hero who can do no wrong. All of them have moments of questionable actions, and often the audience is deliberately left to judge for themselves. Unfortunately, there are a lot of people who take it as implicit that what Sheridan or Delenn does is "the right thing".

I wouldn't have a problem with the missing follow-up or lacking comment, if my impression were that this portrayal of the Rangers and Delenn was intentional, as it isn't unusual for Straczynski to leave the audience to their own thoughts. But there's no proper build-up to this situation in the series, for Delenn at this point in the series it looks to me entirely out of character, and there are no negative consequences for either the Rangers or Delenn of any kind. Thus, I can only conclude that the sudden appearence of the Rangers as a group of fanatics who consider themselves above any law is an unintentional outcome of what was conceived as something entirely different. Unfortunate.

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EDIT: Just rewatched it - he?s clearly deconstructing the Rangers somewhat in this episode.

?As for thinking, we?ll leave that to the advanced classes. We shouldn?t expect all of you at once. We?ll worry about thinking once we?ve cleared away all that warrior cast nonsense.?

The introduction of the two young Rangers to Delenn ? they aren?t introduced until Delenn asks, and they are not supposed to speak. Completely authoritarian structure.

Their problems with the integration of the aliens into the Rangers, especially the pak?ma?ra.

?We shouldn?t get involved in such things. It will only compromise our mission.?

The talk about dying without meaning, for something trivial ? reminds me of Sebastian. The old master, who?s a bit of the voice of wisdom, but it is shown that from a part of the Rangers don?t take him quite seriously.

There are a lot of good thoughts in this episode, actually. It?s just the part about the Rangers being above the law and the an-eye-for-an-eye implication that comes across all wrong.

Here?s something interesting. He?s also deconstructing Sheridan, by means of Lochley?s ?I am a soldier? speech where she?s calling Sheridan?s actions against Clark into question ? which is also left uncommented. She says it?s not her place to tear up the constitution she?s sworn an oath to protect. Lochley is also the one who steps up to Delenn. Delenn explains to her that under the new constitution, the Rangers are above local authorities. So the wheel has turned once again - it?s now Lochley who is in a position of conflict with the constitution she?s sworn to, same as Sheridan before.

 

JMS talks about it, his words are, (in relation to a mugging he endured earlier in his life)

"So when I sat down to come up with a story for this episode, that memory bubbled up. The rage. The importance of confronting fear.

And that's what I wrote about."

This combined with what we see on screen really hits home the point for me that this episode is all about revenge and the Rangers being right in what they are doing.

Also, I would have to disagree with some of your points about the Teeps in season 5 that you made earlier in this thread, Quest. I just finished watching all of those eps and man oh man, is that entire plot badly executed from start to finish. Byron is not a sympathetic character in any way nor is there any way for the viewer to relate to him. He walks around sprouting Hamlet all the time and doing nothing but sounding like a conceited, pompous jerk. He constantly rails about how they want to live in peace but also holds the view that they are better than the mundanes and that they just want to be left alone. You can't hold a superiority complex, want to have things simply given to you, and then expect to be left alone. He constantly blames everyone for the problems he creates, and it is downright sickening to watch. Never mind the fact that everything that happens to the Teeps on B5 is his fault, he still needs to cry about how the Alliance owes the Teeps for their problems. But, other than Earth we have seen that the rest of the aliens treat their teeps very well, so what the hell is he doing crying to the Alliance about their mistreatment of Teeps? The man is an idiot, and all his sing along crap only makes him even less likable. A terrible, terrible arc that really drops the season down quite a bit.

 

I just don't see it, his arrogance and general self righteousness overcome any sympathy I would have for him. It's the classic case of the supposed "hero" causing all of his own problems through his own stupidity and pompous nature and losing any kind of real sympathy in the process.

 

Oooh, interesting because that and the following "It's been 3, no 4 lifetimes" answer he gave to Lyta's question about when he last slept were what really turned me off of the character.

 

Oh yes, Byron I think that's a very well written character, precisely because one never knows exactly how to relate to him emotionally. I don't like the guys hypocrisy and his overblown speeches and his ineptitude as a leader the least bit. And still I can sympathise with his ideas of getting the telepaths a colony of their own, and there are other parts of his personality, like his determination not to use violence, I genuinely like.

He's motivated by guilt, and still hasn't overcome his arrogance towards the "mundanes" and the worst part is he doesn't even realise it. He is a perfectly believable example of a Jesus People sort of cult leader (and considering his own cult experience, JMS's is quite possibly drawing on personal experience with that type). I totally get why people would join such a cult leader, and I totally get the message why ultimately such cult leaders fail. Apart from a certain charisma and the willingness to sacrifice himself for his goal, he has no leadership qualities whatsoever. He has no plan how to accomplish his goal, he expects others like Sheridan to solve the problem for him and in the end resorts to blackmail. All that is accomplished in merely eight episodes he appears in. Remarkable.

 

I posted this at another board and figured I'd bring it over here, basically my thoughts on Crusade after wathcing it for the very first time in its actual chronological order.

I liked Crusade the first time through, it was good, about season 5 B5 level stuff for me, but wow, after watching it in the correct chronological order, and no that's not the JMS order, I really really loved the show. I wouldn't put it anywhere near season 4 of B5, but nothing else save A Call To Arms comes close to S4. However I would put it on the same level as seasons 2 and 3 and well above seasons 1 and 5 of B5.

There are still some minor problems like the costume switching or the two "first" meetings between Lochley and Gideon. But, all the little things flow together much more nicely when viewed in this order and what I found enjoyable the first time through has now become something I love. All the obvious layering for things to come is present, the acting is spot on throughout, I don't even have a problem with Marjean Holden like some do, and the characters grow into their own entities within the B5 universe rather nicely.

All in all this serves to make me more upset that the show was canceled because based on what little we do see in these 13 episodes I do believe they were laying the foundation for a show that would end up being even better than B5.

 

I don't know if it would've been better than B5 but i really liked crusade. It was going in an interesting direction and i really dislike that it was canceled.

 

I have tried a couple of times to watch the Crusade episodes in the order intended, but have never made it all the way through to have a lot to analyze. I don't think that Crusade could have surpassed B5 by any means. For one thing it felt a little too "Trek" for a lot of fans tastes. I would have loved to have seen the series go to completion, but since that is not possible now, I wish JMS would finish it out in novels or comics. It is alluded to in some of the other novel trilogies, but too vaguely to get any real idea what happened beyond the fact that a cure was found.

We need Crusade's story fleshed out!!!

 

I'm hoping not actually. I like the script books and they are good for behind the scenes looks and such, but they aren't actual stories. I want Crusade continued in actual story from, preferably in novels, not as random musings from JMS that do nothing but tell us what may have happened.

As for the earlier point about Crusade being too much like Trek, I never got that. I've never really liked Trek mainly because even at its best it was still really, really bland and the conflicts were never real. Crusade had real conflicts and drama along with a certain intensity that you would never find on Trek.

 

Thanks to finals and whatnot I'm still only halfway through season two. One thing I can say is that Tron is far more angrier than Sinclair. I can understand why Tron nukes everyone that makes him angry.