1. Welcome to the new boards! Details here!

Amph For Justice, For Peace, For the Future- We Have Come Home: Babylon 5

Discussion in 'Community' started by The2ndQuest , Jan 3, 2006.

  1. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Jan 27, 2000
    It could be a new comic/novel series, i suppose- but I get the impression that'd be something being hinted at in relation to DC Comics or Del Rey, not as a studio-centric comment.

    But then, JMS had his "line in the sand" moment a couple years ago, which would suggest he's not settling for anything short of a properly budgeted theatrical film, so far as visual medium B5 material goes.

    However, maybe he'd settle for an expanded, properly budgeted, Lost Tales continuation? Like more than just one volume's worth.
  2. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Jan 27, 2000
    Also worth noting that "Crusade: Other Voices Vol 1" is now available, with Vol 2 hitting later in May. Looks like they're being released to hold us over until "What the Hell Happened Vol 2" can be finished.

    What's interesting to note is Vol 1 continas a forgotten Season 2 script written by Peter Woodward called "Little Bugs Have Lesser Bugs", with a new intro written by Peter.

    The rest of the contents of this volume are Fiona Avery's "Patterns of the Soul" and "The Well of Forever", with two complete drafts of each story for comparison, as well as 9 pages of design artwork.

    Gonna have to order that soon, but maybe I'll wait until Volume 2 so I can maybe save on shipping (besides, I still need to get around to reading "B5: Artifacts From Beyond the Rim").

    Here's the full contents blurb from B5books:

    A brand new CRUSADE adventure in a never-before-seen--or even known about--SECOND SEASON script (What second season? That's our point!). This script was discovered in 2010, 11 years after it was written.

    Oh, did we mentioned that said script was written by Peter Woodward--as in the fabulous British actor who portrayed Galen the techno-mage? As many of you know, Peter is a successful screenwriter and this CRUSADE story is a quirky adventure so good that JMS slated it for the second season.

    The script is called ?Little Bugs Have Lesser Bugs" which reveals --

    * What the EXCALIBUR crew watched on the vid (23rd century TV). (It?s not what you?d expect!)
    * Find out if "that day on Mars with Louise meant anything to Brad"...and, more importantly, who the heck ARE Louise and Brad?
    * The dramatic way Galen gets the attention of the EXCALIBUR crew, causing a panic in the process.
    * The one thing Galen can do in handcuffs to get a reaction from EXCALIBUR security. (Hint: Kids love this.)
    * The introduction of a new planet whose surface makes a disconcerting crunching sound when walked on; you'll cringe when you find out why.
    * What Dureena, and other natives of Zander Prime, have twice the normal number of.
    * Why Galen was willing to swallow a large, living bug.

    In Woodward?s introduction, written exclusively for this book, you?ll find out:

    * Why Peter was compelled to write an episode of CRUSADE and what he thought about seeing it again 12 years later.
    The reason he chose to feature bugs so prominently in the story.
    * Why JMS failed to comment on the script when it was originally submitted and how Peter interpreted the lack of response.

    The other "voice" in this volume is that of Fiona Avery--BABYLON 5's reference editor--who wrote:

    "Patterns of the Soul" (where Gideon confronted Earth colonists who might have been infected with the plague while escaping the planet) and "The Well of Forever" (in which Galen hijacked the EXCALIBUR to find a mythical site hidden in hyperspace). We've included not one, but two drafts of each of these episodes to showcase the changes made between a writer?s first draft and the final production script. This way, no aspect of CRUSADE's history will be unaccounted for. Also included is a complete analysis of each of these episodes, each one exceeding 40 pages. In these scripts, you will discover --

    * What real-world, every day inconvenience inspired ?Patterns of the Soul.? (You'll definitely relate.)
    * How TNT wanted Dr. Chambers and Dureena to become "two tough women."
    * The obsession Captain Gideon indulged in the privacy of his quarters.
    * What key scene was missing from the earliest version of ?Patterns of the Soul.?
    * Find out what Dureena did with the Old One after he died.
    * What "natural substances" were prized by Dureena?s people.
    * What the Prozeta Corporation was originally named.
    * Which BABYLON 5 character Captain Gideon thought was behind the EXCALIBUR?s diversion to Theta 49.
    * Cut from the script: the scene where Dureena?s people watched her depart Theta 49, and how they reacted.
    * The big switch: which EXCALIBUR crew member originally betrayed another in the first draft of ?Patterns.?
  3. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Jan 27, 2000
    Another interesting development that indicates we are marching towards an announcement about *something*: WB just assumed official control of the larger B5 Facebook page, which implies they intend to use it for marketing something.
  4. T-R-

    T-R- Chosen One star 5

    Aug 13, 2003
    I always wanted to see either a series (3 or 5 seasons) or a mini-series about the last shadow war where B4 and Valen show up halfway through to turn the tide. I still think that would've been a better idea than Crusade.
  5. Koohii

    Koohii Jedi Master star 5

    May 30, 2003
    I think that's what they tried to do with "Legend of the Rangers", but they screwed it up.
    Maybe if JMS has 5 years to think about it and build the arc... Plot everything out.
    That could be good.
  6. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Jan 27, 2000
    Well, LOTR's problems were mostly budgetary (weapons console replaced by that dumb VR thing, etc) and a rushed schedule (script written in short period of time).

    The plan, I assume, was to focus on the original plan for Crusade (the "empire building" with the Camelot/Knights ISA/Rangers parable) while also acting as an eventual backdoor to bring back or (at the very least) resolve Crusade's story.

    But then football screwed that up.
  7. Nobody145

    Nobody145 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Feb 9, 2007
    At this point, I think the best solution would be to have a trilogy of novels to finish up Crusade's major plotline of saving earth from the plague, or even just one book. I've read that they would've found a cure by the second season, and then moved onto other things, but while of course we know they save earth, I'd like to see how (find random tech, or even dig up some old Shadow technology or something). Not to mention Legend of the Ranger's hint at a big threat out there.

    We already had the Centauri, Psi Corps and Technomage (only read the third book, but didn't really like some of the retcons involved) trilogies, but it would be nice if they finished up Crusade's story someday in some form (or even if they just told us what would've happened). Still, nice to hear something is probably in the works, even after all this time.
  8. T-R-

    T-R- Chosen One star 5

    Aug 13, 2003
    Not really. Legend of the Rangers takes place after Season 5. What I was referring to was back 1,000 years before during the previous shadow war when Valen shows up with B4.
  9. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Jan 27, 2000
    Coincidentally, I never read the 3rd book of the Technomage trilogy (not out of quality issues, just got distracted by some stuff and eventually too much time had past to make jumping back into the series mid-way a viable option). But the first two were really good- the insight into how Galen visualizes magic in a way no one else does that leads to his greatest power was a really neat idea, I thought.

    As to a Crusade resolution, well, hopefully that's what "What the Hell Happened?" will ultimately give us, at least somewhat. Three of the scripts have been around for a long time (including the first myth-heavy episode, a Bester episode and the season finale), so when combined with JMS's commentary on the 1st printing of the Crusade DVD set, we get some insight into where the series was headed, though not as many specifics (especially since it apparently was up in the air if Gideon would actually survive his assassination attempt due to studio/actor issues, and if he'd even remain corporeal afterwards if he did), but given the focus on leftover Shadowtech, wouldn't be surprised if they found a cure that way.

    Hopefully the unreleased scripts and written introductions will shed further insight into the details.
  10. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Jan 27, 2000
    And the description details for Crusade: Other Voices Vol 2 is up (along with the book itself for ordering):

    If this book weren't already titled CRUSADE: OTHER VOICES, we could have named it "THE LOST TALES" because this volume includes THREE never-before-published CRUSADE scripts:

    1) ?Value Judgments,? is the infamous unfilmed CRUSADE script featuring the return of BABYLON 5?s Alfred Bester.

    2) ?Tried and True,? features a one-on-one confrontation between Dureena and her Thieves? Guild mentor, Mafeek of Tripani 7 (if the name sounds familiar, it?s because he was mentioned in BABYLON 5: A CALL TO ARMS).

    3) ?War Story,? is the first episode of an unfinished three-part story that would have seen Dureena abducted by a mysterious alien ship after a huge battle with the Drakh.

    There?s also ?Ruling From the Tomb,? in which Captain Gideon and the EXCALIBUR crew seek to capture a murderer bent on derailing a conference seeking a cure for the Drakh plague. For this episode, we?ve also included writer Peter David?s original outlines, one featuring the return of a fan-favorite BABYLON 5 character who DID NOT appear in the finished episode.

    If you?ve ever longed for more than the thirteen produced episodes of CRUSADE, this material will take you on a guided tour of the latter half of season one, showing you what might have been. Unrealized storylines including Lieutenant Matheson face-to-face with Alfred Bester, Dureena's life in the Thieves? Guild and Earthforce Marines in an all-out battle with the Drakh.

    Now that you've got the overview, let's get to the details:

    In Peter David?s introduction, you?ll discover:

    * Why the Mars police lieutenant was named ?Carr.?
    * The reason he added Max Eilerson to the story when the character was not present in JMS?s premise for the episode.
    * How the Joan of Arc element found its way into the story.
    * How a misremembered name from a Broadway musical led to the character called LeBecque.
    * Which beloved BABYLON 5 character shared Max Eilerson?s sense of humor.
    * Why Peter David was disappointed with the portrayal of Joan of Arc in the finished episode.
    * How budgetary restrictions threw a monkeywrench in the mechanism of a skimmer chase across the Martian surface.
    * Why the bomb?s countdown clock stopped at 018 (instead of James Bond?s preferred 007 or the even more cliched 001), and how that tied into the theme of the episode.
    * The story?s original ending, which David changed when he remembered he was "writing CRUSADE, not TWILIGHT ZONE.?

    Richard Mueller?s in-depth interview reveals:

    * How a writer who?d had no involvement with BABYLON 5 came to write an episode of CRUSADE.
    * What parameters JMS established for the writing of the critical episode in which Dureena was to have been kidnapped.
    * What historical naval battle informed his CRUSADE story and why.
    * Which character he had to rein in lest they become the star of his episode.
    * Why his script for ?War Story? exists, even though he was never given the official go-ahead to write it.

    But that?s not all?in addition to the four scripts, Peter David?s introduction and the Richard Mueller interview, you?ll get:

    JMS?s handwritten notes for the episode that eventually became ?Ruling From the Tomb,? which featured ?MIKE,? A BRAND NEW CRUSADE CHARACTER who never made it to the screen.

    The premise JMS wrote for Peter David to work from in crafting ?Ruling From the Tomb.? In it, you?ll learn how the cure to the Drakh plague would have been distributed once it was discovered, and why Dr. Chambers might have had a problem with the plan.

    The biography of IPX archaeologist Maximilian Eilerson written by actor David Allen Brooks, as well as a trio of poems (one R-rated) that he wrote from Max?s point of view.

    A May 2011 interview with Dureena Nafeel actress Carrie Dobro, where she describes her feelings about the two new Dureena-centric scripts featured in this volume that she had never seen before. Find out how she felt when she rev
  11. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Jan 27, 2000
    [link=]Jeff Conaway in a coma after apparent OD[/link]

    On his FB page, JMS commented: "Awful news. Just awful. I can't decide which is sadder: that it happened or that it seemed inevitable for so long that it would happen."
  12. RK_Striker_JK_5

    RK_Striker_JK_5 Jedi Grand Master star 7

    Jul 2, 2003
  13. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Jan 27, 2000
    [link=]'Grease' actor Jeff Conaway on 'razor's edge' in fight for life[/link]

    Actor Jeff Conaway is on the "razor's edge," fighting for his life against pneumonia and a blood infection, according to a source familiar with Conaway's medical condition, who asked not to be identified.

    The next 72 hours are crucial for Conaway's recovery, the source said Saturday afternoon


    Initial reports that he suffered a drug overdose were inaccurate, the source said. However, his use of drugs caused him not to realize how ill he was, keeping him from getting treatment until it was almost too late, the source said.

    Conaway's struggle with alcohol and drug addiction was chronicled in 2008 on the TV reality show "Celebrity Rehab With Dr. Drew."

    Dr. Drew Pinsky, who treated Conaway on the show, posted Twitter messages after he visited him in the hospital Friday evening.

    "He is stable & looks like he will recover from his pneumonia. Not an OD like press is alleging & certainly not dead," Pinsky tweeted.

    Conaway's manager told CNN on Thursday that he believed it was a drug overdose, but the source with knowledge of his condition said the only illnesses were pneumonia and sepsis.

    Pinsky's Twitter postings confirmed the same information. "Pneumonia with sepsis. No evidence of intentional OD," said Pinsky, who hosts the HLN show "Dr. Drew."

    Doctors are using the surgical anesthetic propofol to keep Conaway sedated in a medically induced coma, according to Pinsky's tweets. "That also means he's intubated and on a vent," Pinsky tweeted.

    The coma is needed to keep the patient from thrashing around, the source said.

    "He's a really wonderful soul, a very kind and wonderful person," Brock said.
  14. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Jan 27, 2000
    [link=]Jeff Conaway has died.[/link]

  15. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Jan 27, 2000
    Was skimming some B5 fan photos on FB and came across [link=]some sweet ink[/link]. :cool:
  16. RK_Striker_JK_5

    RK_Striker_JK_5 Jedi Grand Master star 7

    Jul 2, 2003
    I hope Jeff found peace, at least. :( @};-
  17. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Jan 27, 2000
    Finally getting around to cracking into Artifacts From Beyond the Rim, so I'll be posting some highlight notes as I progress. The book promises to have some interesting stuff, from unused episode and film concepts/outlines to season notes, framed by interviews- starting with one with JMS from just before The Gathering aired (where he starts off how he came up with the idea for B5 while working on Captain Power) to one just before LOTR aired.

    There's some note cards for season 1/Season 2 episodes that were abandoned- one dealing with a dark carnival down below with Franklin involved, and another two-parter seemingly involving a blockade of some kind and the effect on B5. In another, an Ambassador character JMS repeatedly tried to introduce but never did was meant to replace Sinclair's function in that role on B5, and has to negotiate with the Vorlons.

    There's a series of a character profiles from that era of production that are, mostly, reprinted here for the first time, with character birthdates, names of relatives, allies, enemies, lovers, etc. Most amusingly (outside of affiliation to the Vorlon Empire), every category in Kosh's entry is "Unknown". [face_laugh]
  18. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Jan 27, 2000
    Not as much revelatory content in this volume, but some nice insights from the time these materials were made (lots of JMS interviews- probably close to 100 pages worth). JMS certainly is willing to put the blame of less successful episodes where it belongs- whether it's himself (for Infection being a complete misfire) or directors (Grail apparently suffered greatly from it's director, who chose to shoot everything distant (including the actors from each other, standing still)- something that bothered even David Warner, who felt he was just saying the words and wasn;'t be told what to actually do; the director also took very little coverage, so even the edit took 3 times longer than normal episodes).

    A few side project proposals (as well as a nice gallery of various shoulder patches/unit patches used in the series for the different fighter squadrons, capital ships and Earthforce bases) are mentioned though- including a "Mysteries of Babylon 5" Seasons 1-2 recap special (which, outside of The X-Files and Murphy Brown, had not been done before at that point- this being long before shows like Lost and BSG made them common) and "Babylon 5 Lives" suggestions for TNT from before they greenlit Season 5 (JMS's suggestions include ITB, TG:SE, as well as a sort of Lost tales-like ancestor that would tell stories set during the existing series' events (including both connected and standalone ones) and potential crossover stories between stories told during B5 and the potential B5 Sequel series (this being when Crusade would have been about Sheridan and Delenn in a post-Shadow War ravaged galaxy).

    There's also proposal bits related to the "War of the Minds" theatrical movie concept explored in a previous volume, as well as proposals for 2 comic book stories- one that became In Valen's Name, and a second that actually ended up becoming Sleeping in Light!

    Unrelated to AFBTR (though inspired by JMS's observations in interviews in it), both "Believers" and "Confessions and Lamentations" come up often as being some of the most controversial episodes from the series- ones that broke the general Trek mold and were, in general, stories most Tv networks wouldn't let a show do.

    So, I started to think what other episodes from the show might fall into a similar category, if one were to do sort of a mini marathon of the hardest-hitting B5 episodes (as opposed to the most epic, most arc-centric, etc where things like "Severed Dreams", "Z'ha'dum" & "Endgame" would win out most often).

    I think "Intersections in Real Time" is the first one to come to mind. Any others come to mind for anyone else?
  19. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Jan 27, 2000
    Here's an interesting tidbit: since PTEN usually aired the last 5 episodes of a season immediately before the next season's premiere (which, while making business sense in terms of B5's rising ratings as consecutive episodes ran, annoyed JMS on a creative level since it killed off the impact of major cliffhangers that were supposed to keep people talking for months), JMS tried to make it work in their favor for Season 4's premiere.

    Originally, The Hour of the Wolf was meant to be set several weeks after the events of Z'ha'dum (JMS even had Bruce grow a beard for it), but JMS then adjusted it to be set a week or less after Z'ha'dum so that they could track things in more or less real time and make the PTEN schedule work to their advantage somewhat.

    The book also contains a proposal to Del Rey for a"Welcome to the Psi-Corps: A Manual For Telepaths" book that would have been written by JMS, which would be presented as an actual manual that it's former owner (who left hand-written notations on pages) smuggled out of the Psi-Corps.

    Part 1 would be propaganda materials,- flyers, etc, part 2 would focus on newcomers to the Psi-Corps with excercises and what career options they have available, part 3 would focus on their internal philosophy and manifest destiny and part 4 would be about high level/true-agenda black stuff.

    Specifics would include a breakdown of all P rankings, telepath abilities and differences between telepaths, telekinetics and pyrokinetics, as well as essays by fiction experts on a variety of subjects ranging from social (dating, gambling, marriage, stress) to roles in society. A propaganda version of the Corps history, as well as list of rules and laws regarding telepaths.

    Another interesting section includes JMS's recreated Season 5 storylines & note cards that he made after that hotel in the UK threw away his originals while he was busy securing the actors to make Season 5 happen.

    Since there was asuch a rush to get Season 5 up and running, the first 5 episodes of Season 5 (counting Deconstruction of Falling Stars being produced as 501) were written as mostly standalones because they would have to start production on them before JMS would be able to plan out the recreated story arcs for Season 5.

    So, basically, his recreated note cards begin with 506 (the 5th episode to air in Season 5)- the story that would become Learning Curve. This would explain (my conjecture) "No Compromises" rushed nature, the use of an abandoned Season 4 concept for "A View From the Gallery", the fully stand-alone nature of "Very Long Night...".

    Abandoned plot ideas from those cards include:

    -The aborted 508 "Gut Reactions" script "Dying To Be Heard" featured Sheridan presiding over petty complaints in court & a new Centauri Ambassador being brought in to replace Londo who is arrogant, racist, annoying and a drinker (basically early Londo). He screws up and is sent packing by Londo, which would have then led to Vir becoming Ambassador.

    -Delenn guiding Sheridan through part of Ranger training, focusing on the elimination of smugness and personal terror (revealed to Sheridan through a dream sequence), thoguh Sheridan fails to know his own terror (that he will fail his friends).

    -Franklin is kidnapped to try and get his xenomedical research for military applications. Focused on privacy versus medical necessity and Physicians vow of secrecy.

    -Franklin;s guide to the other races wher ehe has to catalog moral/ethical/religious aspects regarding health and medicine to prevent others from making his "Believers" mistake.

    -G'Kar's plot of gaining disciples in The Ragged Edge would have included some young Centauri followers whom the Narns would have been hostile to before G'Kar tells them this is to be welcomed.

    -A mini-arc whose first part would involve a feverish young man aboard a damaged "snub-nosed" White Star (the "Blue Star" from Sleeping in Light) rescued by a trader who is brought to be B5 and is found to have no memory. The trader takes him under his wing (seen as fatherly). Sees Sheridan as dangerous. Trader owes mo
  20. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Jan 27, 2000
    Some last bits from the last two interviews with JMS in the volume, made during the production of LOTR:

    LOTR had three interesting synchronicity during it's production:
    -The first day of filming happened 2 years to the day from the final day of post production work on Crusade.

    -When JMS was still thinking about possibly using G'Kar in the movie, he was at dinner with his wife, and 20 twenty minutes later he realized Andreas was sitting at a nearby table having ice cream. SO he went over and asked him to be in it.

    -After they cast Dylan Neal as the lead actor for LOTR, fans online told them they knew why he was cast based on information on their production company's website. JMS had no idea what they were talking about. So he followed the links then ran out into the hall to ask Doug if he knew they had both worked with Dylan before, to which Doug had no idea what he was talking about: Turns out Dylan had played the younger version of Jonathan Powers on Captain Power!

    (And, to me, it's strange that both the origin of Babylon 5 and the near-final installment of B5 both tie back to Captain Power)

    Beyond the synchronicities,

    -One of the first episodes of the series would have dealt with Sarah bonding further with the ship.

    -There are hidden messages in Minbari all over the ship, including one on the bridge intended to be seen at almost all times which read: "**** TNT!".

    -Even though the pilot was ship-based, the series itself would have been more geared towards covert-ops styled missions.

    -Had the series reached Season 3, they would have addressed the events of Crusade from a different perspective: with none of the crew being from Earth, they would have primarily seen/treated the infection of Earth as a foreign tragedy.
  21. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Jan 27, 2000
    In [link=]JMS's Facebook page post[/link] where he talks about the upcoming Harlan Ellison script book (done by the same folks who did the B5 script books) which will have both an intro by JMS and Harlan's B5 writer's manifesto on how to write good science fiction, ?A Terrifying List of Things Not to Do When Writing For Babylon 5?. There will also be 1,000 copies signed by both Harlan and JMS.

    Anyways, in the comments section, when asked if this was the B5-related thing JMS has been hinting at, he said: "This is a separate announcement, I'll have something to say on the other matter before comiccon.".
  22. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Jan 27, 2000
    At Comic-Con:

    The future of "Babylon 5" is still being negotiated, JMS said in response to one questioner, explaining that two years ago, when he was last asked to work on a new "Babylon 5," he told the producers, "I need three things. Two to three million dollars per episode, a full season commitment and creative control." At the time, they seemed amiable to his plan, but some parts of the deal fell apart. That said, negotiations are still ongoing.

    More details tweeted:

    RE: B5 Yes, there was a B5 thing in negotiations (yes, good budget -
    yes, full season commitment, yes, creative control) for a new
    distribution system but that venue never materialized.

    BUT - after this, JMS went to them and said that if they weren't going
    to do A, B & C, let him do D, E & F. So there are negotiations going
    on but nothing he can talk about in detail.
  23. Nobody145

    Nobody145 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Feb 9, 2007
    Well, nice to hear something is going on, I really hope something comes of it. I know he's said if he does anything else, he's not going to settle for a little Lost Tales kind of thing, so here's hoping that if he does manage to get another season going, it'll become another hit. Wonder what that new distribution system was.
  24. Chancellor_Ewok

    Chancellor_Ewok Force Ghost star 7

    Nov 8, 2004
    Maybe we finally get to see the Telepath War?
  25. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Immortal Mod-King of the EUC, RPF and SWC star 8 Staff Member Manager

    Nov 15, 2004
    It really is taking too long, though. [face_plain]