Amph For Justice, For Peace, For the Future- We Have Come Home: Babylon 5

Discussion in 'Community' started by The2ndQuest, Jan 3, 2006.

  1. Rebel_Spook Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 14, 2002
    star 4
    OK, I have read the PsiCorps Trilogy, and am finishing up the Centauri Trilogy presently, I have not gotten to reading the Techno-mage trilogy, so I didn't know of the references to the Shadow tech.

    It is not that I don't believe what you are saying, but can you point to an article, interview, or website that discusses this? I thought that when Crusade was cancelled by TNT, that it was pretty much dropped and that the books that refer to the plague simply brush over it and say that the cure was found, but don't go in any detail of the Excalibur going rogue or that the initial "cure" was inevitably detrimental.

    I find it odd that since the disease was given a 5 year timetable to completely adapt to the human physiology that the sure would be found sooner than the planned length of the show. Heck, TNT's Crusade site even had a 5 year count-down.
  2. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    JMS touches upon the broadstrokes of where Crusade was going in the Crusade DVD commentary tracks (though those commentary tracks, IIRC, are only available on the first printing of the Crsuade sets since theyw ere supposedly removed at JMS's order after WB violated their agreement by editing his comments regarding what happened to the show at TNT).

    He also touches upon it briefly in Volume 10 of the B5 JMS script books when discussing the genesis of the spin-off in the context of meetings that would ultimtely lead to TNT saving B5. There he basicly points out that Crusade was initially going to be about empire building and would have been integrated more thoroughly into Season 5 of B5 to compensate for the lost Earth Civil War elements compressed into Season 4, but that TNT wanted a hook, a mission, and so JMS came up with the plague concept, returning Season 5 to be more standalone, with the intention of resolving it in the second season (since he knew the plague concept could not be sustained for an entire show since the show would be over if they found one and, thus, we knew the crew would fail to find a cure every episode until then, so he had to make it about something other than the cure).

    The novels do kind of step around the resolution to Crusade (presumably as not to spoil things if Crusade were to be continued on another network, as it almost was on Sci-fi), but do touch upon aspects from it (though mostly those having to do with the technomage characters, Galen's backstory, who betrayed his lover, etc).

    I wouldn't take TNT's website into much consideration- recall that, after they intentionally killed the series, they advertised it as a "special limited series" knowing there would be no resolution, and actively worked to prevent it from getting one on another channel.
  3. Rebel_Spook Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 14, 2002
    star 4
    OK, I'll have to see if my Crusade DVD set has the commentary on it. Hopefully it does, but I think I might be out of luck since I didn't buy it when it first came out.

    Due to finances and just plain forgetting sometimes, I don't have any of the script books after #7, looks like there's more reason to catch up than I originally thought.

    Too bad that TNT had to be that way about Crusade, I really wanted to see it succeed. Sci-Fi didn't exactly put out it's best when they did Legends of the Rangers, so I'm not sure that moving Crusade there would have been very good anyways.

    I'm just glad to be finally getting the novels read and that the first new B5 in a long time will be coming out this summer!
  4. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    >>OK, I'll have to see if my Crusade DVD set has the commentary on it. Hopefully it does, but I think I might be out of luck since I didn't buy it when it first came out.<<

    Well, I don't think there was actually a recall or anything, so it's still possible you picked up one before they retooled it.


    >>Due to finances and just plain forgetting sometimes, I don't have any of the script books after #7, looks like there's more reason to catch up than I originally thought.<<

    Well, I wouldn't buy it just for that Crusade tidbit (JMS points out he's saving most of the Crusade info for the eventual Crusade script books), but it is interesting to see where the spin-off series notion germinated from and how it almost affected Season 5.


    >>Sci-Fi didn't exactly put out it's best when they did Legends of the Rangers, so I'm not sure that moving Crusade there would have been very good anyways.<<

    Sci-fi was pretty supportive of B5, actually. In fact, had Rangers gone to series and been successful enough, it was very likely we would have seen Crusade resurrected alongside it. Rangers' failings have more to do with the script (which was rushed) and budget limitations (resulting in the VR kungfu weapons system). Sci-fi advertised Rangers heavily, involved fan support directly, etc. It was just bad luck that Rangers debuted against that football game whose ratings were unanticipated.
  5. Leto II Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 23, 2000
    star 6
    One aspect of the Rangers situation that's been occasionally misinterpreted throughout fandom over the years is that it wasn't that Sci-Fi offered JMS a two-hour movie, and he decided to try to sell them a new series -- they asked him for a pilot for a new series, period. He gave them a number of possible stories for the project, including a continuation of Crusade, and Rangers is the one they picked, so that's the one he wrote.

    As 2ndQuest mentioned above, the reason why they *didn't* go forward with the Rangers series -- and also why the pilot was not adequately funded, and couldn't get a budget-bump or schedule-extension to deal with the weapons system problem -- was that WB and Sci-Fi couldn't reach an ownership deal at the pilot stage, and never did later. SFC simply passed on the whole idea of doing Crusade, because at the time they commissioned the Rangers pilot, Crusade had not yet been broadcast on Sci-Fi. They wanted the Rangers series based on B5's ratings, and didn't want to consider anything Crusade-related until they saw how the series did "on their air" -- that is, with SFC's base audience.

    By the time the show did run on Sci-Fi, they were haggling with WB over ownership of Rangers. Obviously, if WB was not going to share ownership on a new series developed for and with Sci-Fi, they were not going to do so with a proprety they already owned, but I doubt if SFC even asked at that point. The fact is, SFC turned down Crusade for reasons of their own, initially (while leaving the door open, should they make a deal for a Rangers series, and the ratings justifying a second B5-universe show).

    Obviously, Warners' stance on the ownership of Rangers tipped the balance away from doing that series (although if the ratings had been great, they probably would have gone ahead with the show, despite not owning a piece). But of course, that was really a separate matter from the whole Crusade fiasco.
  6. Rebel_Spook Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 14, 2002
    star 4
    Thanks for all the info, guys! I appreciate it. I have no intention of getting Script Book #10, just for the Crusade piece, I would love to have the whole collection to really be able to see what JMS was thinking throughout the series and get an inside look at the struggles and successes that he had as a creator/writer.

    After I am done reading the last of the Centauri trilogy novels (have to do it slowly and carefully - never had to pay $24 for a paperback novel before) I plan to read the Techno-mage trilogy to get a little more info on them.

    I didn't realize all the difficulties there were surrounding Sci-Fi/TNT/WB and the Crusade/Rangers. I wasn't aware that the WB had much to say in regards to where B5 went as I thought that JMS held all the rights and that the WB was just the distributor.
  7. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    Nope, WB owns B5, not JMS. The only thing JMS owns is the rights to any theatrical film.
  8. Juliet316 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 27, 2005
    star 7
    Like the mini - films in production?
  9. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    No, theatrical film only, not straight to DVD or TV movies.
  10. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    JMS update, the B5 bits:

    The B5 DVD has been fully delivered to WB along with finals on all of
    the director's blogs, the interviews, and fireside chats. I'd expect
    to see them online in a few weeks, one at a time.

    ...

    Finally, volume 11 of the script books is about to come out, and I
    wanted to let folks know that there won't be any photos or memos in
    this volume (well, one memo) because this covers the insane period
    between the end of the fourth season and the beginnings of the fifth
    season...all of the fireworks, all the twists and turns, much of it
    never before revealed in detail, day by day, hour by hour, and in
    order to cover all that the introduction/commentary section turned
    into the longest one to date, and not by just a little. It's almost
    23,000 words long, covering over 70 pages. If you want the skinny on
    what happened during those explosive months, this is the definitive
    last word on the subject.

    Also, because these books are being written in chronological fashion
    following the history of the show year by year, we decided to move
    Sleeping in Light into this volume...so you get Deconstruction,
    Sleeping in Light, and the season 5 debut, No Compromises, and four
    others.

    The one thing I can promise is that folks are going to be talking
    about this volume for a very, very long time...and many things not
    previously understood or debated about will be set to rights and
    explained, once and for all.
  11. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    [image=http://g-ec2.images-amazon.com/images/I/51J0ltvmWtL._SS500_.jpg]
  12. Rebel_Padawan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 11, 2003
    star 4
    Nice... very nice!
  13. JediTrilobite Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 17, 1999
    star 7
  14. plo_koom Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2002
    star 5
    Thank you, Borat.[face_peace]

    Anyways, yeah, it does look nice.
  15. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    Looks like the trailer for The Lost Tales is supposed to be up on babylon5.com sometime today or shortly thereafter.
  16. Jedi_Johnson Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 6, 2002
    star 5
    That is very good/exciting news.
  17. Rebel_Spook Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 14, 2002
    star 4
    Cool, I'll be keeping an eye out for it.

    I just finished the Legions of Fire trilogy, and I have to say that it was a fantastic set of books. If you want to know what happens after the end of the series from Vir's and Londo's viewpoints, I highly recommend these books. Peter David caught the feel and tone of the characters perfectly.

    I am about to start the Techno-mage trilogy. I've really been in a B5 mood for a while now! :D
  18. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    Yeah, Legions of Fire was fantastic- after reading those, it really got me back into a reading mood, even dusted off some SW books and started visiting the Lit forum here...

    At the time I had really wished they had been able to film LOF as a miniseries or something, as it was just that damn good. Alas, Andreas...
  19. Rebel_Spook Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 14, 2002
    star 4
    These would have been great as a TV mini-series! And yes, it was actually sad to read the parts with G'Kar in them knowing that we will never see Andreas again in the role. He was such an integral part of everything B5, I imagine that it was difficult as a writer for JMS to have to work around not having G'Kar in any future visual projects and for the cast and crew to return without Andreas and Richard Biggs must have been very hard.

    I'm now going to start on the Techno-mage trilogy since I got them for a steal on eBay, less than retail cost for the books, and the second one normally goes for big bucks for a paperback on the secondary market!
  20. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    www.babylon5.com has relaunched, including the first little web documentary, but the trailer is still labeled as "coming soon".
  21. Jedi_Johnson Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 6, 2002
    star 5
    Great maker that is a tragedy. We need the trailer now.
  22. Rebel_Padawan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 11, 2003
    star 4
    You need not wait any longer, for there is a trailer on the Bab5 site!
  23. Jedi_Johnson Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 6, 2002
    star 5
    Thanks for the heads up.

    I just watched the trailer and it looks pretty interesting to me. Seeing B5 and Starfuries rendered with more moder CGI technology is really cool looking too. It could be because I haven't watched and B5 episodes in a couple years, but I felt slightly giddy when I heard the old music. This DVD needs to come out now.
  24. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    The new FX look quite good- and I love how the B5 docking bay matte really has that old-skool film matte painting feel to it, at lest at this resolution.

    Now we just need a hi-rez QT version!
  25. Rebel_Spook Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 14, 2002
    star 4
    Just watched the trailer, and I have to say that this DVD can not get here fast enough!

    I wonder if the rift between JMS and Claudia Christian has been fixed, as I would love to see Ivanova in a future Lost Tales storyline.

    I'm going to have to track down all my old B5 watching college buddies to make sure that they know about this DVD release!