For those who are tired of the 'I'll read yours only if you read mine' stuff...

For the few who it concerns, I'll be cutting back on my time here. Not cutting back on writing, not cutting back on online time, and not cutting back on chatting.

But cutting back on reading. I'm overwhelmed, people. I know it's common courtesy to read someone else's fic when they sit through yours, and to go to someone else's fic when they PM you to read it for them, but I'm only human.

Through private message, e-mail, real life conversation with non-internat fan-ficcers, and people reading my fic online and around my town, I'm being asked to read a total of twelve full length fics and six non-fanfiction novels all at once and in one sitting practically . Then there's the fics I'm already reading and am caught up with!I have some (not all, by any means...) people practially getting mad at me because I haven't read their story yet.

It's so overwhelming to me. I have a full-time job. I had a full-time girlfriend until she dumped me last week for not spending enough time with her. I'm working on a very very large set of five fics at once, and overhauling two of them right now. I'm an editor for another fic, and my lack of time has really cut into my ability to sit down and edit.

People, I'm reading so much I can't take anything in. I'm getting stories confused, and forget everything after a day. Face it, I'm human, and can't do all that. I've been trying to read your fics, but I keep having to revert to page one because I forget everything by the time I reach two.

And yet I still do the thankless, volunteer job of writing my own fic. I put ALOT of work into my writing, and this recent surge of "PLEASE READ MY FIC" stuff has seriously cut into my writing. Since I got back from vacation, I even realized that I had failed to realize I had incorrectly numbered the chapters to my fic.

From now on, I'm reading one full-length story at a time, plus keeping along with the ones I'm up to date on. If some of you are miffed at that, then sorry. I can't help it, really.

Why am I posting this here? Because I'm tired of this system! Read my fic and I read yours. Am I really reading your fic because I like it? Or am I reading it just to keep you in mine? If you really like mine, you'll stay and vice-versa.

Some of you may notice I'm a tad bit vehement with the subject. When I wrote my first fic, I had a sizable following by the end. When I wrote my second, I was forced to cut back on my reading because of a trip to Florida. I lost all my following with the exception of four, two of which I consider lurkers.

So I'm am finally speaking out. If you want someone to read your fic, advertise in the corresponding databases in the WR.

EX: if you have an Obidala, post a link in the Obidala thread, and if you have an OC, post the link in the OC threads.

Anyway, that's all I really have to say. I know people aren't going to like this, but making friends here isn't exactly one of my talents. If you share my opinion, please let me know.

Good day!

-Cam

 

Although I think your delivery was a bit harsh I don't think there's anyone who would disagree with the essential essence of your post.

Sometimes It IS hard to stay caught up and when you fall behind even doubly so. ( I know, I'm spending time tryinf to catch up on a freinds fic but I have to stop every once in a while and do something else like respond to a post or work on my own sorely neglected piece.)

Also, you need to take into account regular life outside the JC... I work 40 hours a week... plus and hour's commute in four days... by Monday I am just wiped out but of course I have shopping and housecleaning and god knows what else... so it can be hard....

I wish I had all the time in the world to dedicate to fan fiction, I know I'm missing some great works but you have to make choices and prioriteze and sadly, soemtimes things get lost...

 

Although I can understand the "You read mine, I read yours", that line has never worked for me.

I agree with DB that the delievery is a bit harsh, but that the essence of your thread applies to everyone. No-one here should expect their story to be read (although god it would be nice if everyone's was). Also, you should always read a story simply for the enjoyment.

I find time pressures affect everyone's story readings these days. Since leaving high school I've found myself with half the time to actually do anything. I suppose I could make time to read, but then again I could always also make time to do that pile of washing up as well

I think your point is excellant Cam_Mulonus. Maybe we should use this as a starting point to see about why people expect that.... (probably because when people say that no-one is reading their fic we tell them to go read other peoples).

Kithera

 

Why am I posting this here? Because I'm tired of this system! Read my fic and I read yours. Am I really reading your fic because I like it? Or am I reading it just to keep you in mine? If you really like mine, you'll stay and vice-versa.

Hmm, I'm sure there's a lot of truth in here. Sometimes a person could feel obliged to read and reply to a fic that s/he ... how shall I put it ... is lukewarm about. There are plenty of reasons; maybe s/he started out excited about the fic, but lost interest along the way, and yet doesn't want to discourage the author by dropping out. Maybe s/he feels s/he has to reciprocate because that author is an enthusiastic fan of the person's story, and s/he fears losing a reader in retaliation.

I've also seen this in my own writing. I've had some people read my stories, and I've felt obliged to read theirs, or at least have a look at them. But on occasion, I just don't like their fics, for whatever reason. Sometimes you just have to have the backbone to admit to yourself that it's just not your taste, and then tell yourself that you don't have to read it if you don't want to. If you look at the stories that you yourself are avidly following -- some of those authors don't read your fics in return, I'm sure. (At least that's been my experience.) It's just the way things are.

Being a rather shy person myself, I don't usually going around asking people to read my fics. I personally think it's a bit pushy. I do put the link in my signature, though, and when I reply to the fics of other people, my signature is there like a discreet little advertisement. People can look in if they want to, but there's no pressure.

 

Sorry, Cam. I don't think I ever really asked, but if I did, I'm sorry. You don't have to read any more of mine. I'm sorry I helped to mess up your life, but I'm really good at that. I taint everything I come in contact with. But that's me, so what can anybody do? Again, I'm really, really sorry.

 

t-wiz: Don't be sorry, you didn't do anything to wreck my life. My life's not wrecked, just filled with things to do. You didn't even ask me to read your fic. We'll talk more about it via PM, kay.

I'm not that angry about being overwhelmed, that was just to inform people that I may not be able to read their fics any time soon. I'm kinda fumed, though, at some people coming at me for not reading their fic. First, I'm a busy guy, second, are you just going to stop reading my fic, which you just spent four lines praising five posts ago? If you are, then same on you for lying. And I KNOW I'm not the only writer who has to put up with that, I see it all the time around here.

I know I was harsh when I posted this and am still harsh now, but I'm fairly bitter about the whole idea. People thinking you owe them something because they grace your fic with their presence. I know it's common courtesy to check out someone's fic if they're in your following, but it shouldn't be a rule, because I can rarely abide by it.

I'm angry and bitter mainly because of my last fic, The Dark Horizon. I had a decent following for it, until my time became consumed. I lost ALL my readers because while I was still able to post onto my fic, I couldn't read theirs. The 'kind' words they at first said about my work became suddenly sour and empty.

So please, if you don't really like a fic and just want readers, don't post in the fic and give comments that portray a false feeling. If you want readers, do as Jane Jinn advised. Find a fic you like, and just put a link to yours in your sig. One of the readers or writers of that fic is bound to at least check yours out, and if they don't post, remember they could be a lurker, or they just don't like the kind of fic it is. So deal with it, and accept the fact that not everyone that reads through your fic is going to be spellbound by your great storytelling.

I hope my point has gotten across. And if anyone thinks I'm being unfair in my opinion, then tell me via PM.

Glad to see some people who see my point. Any others?"

 

Oh yes, I share your opinon. It just pisses me off when you get a PM from a reader that reads your fic, lurks in it, and then the PM comes in asking you to read their fic.

A writer in no circumstances should read a story because they feel obliged to. I tried to do that with some of my readers when I first came to the boards, but it came down near impossible because the stories of my readers never appealed to what I was looking to read. A reader should never read because they feel forced.

I agree with you completely, Cam.

 

I'm going to talk to Am about this, because it is obviously a big issue.


However, this might come across as sounding naive...but I thought that you weren't allowed to solicite for people to read your fic outside of the designated threads and sig lines.

That means PMing people and asking them to read your fic. That simply isn't on. Anybody who's done it to me before knows the harsh reply they get. I don't believe in "You read mine, I'll read yours." Yes, I read my friends works, but I don't expect them to read mine in return (not anymore anyway).

I'm going to talk to Am (because this is fairly major stuff). However, I don't think actually soliciting like that, or worse holding it over someone's head (if you don't read my work I won't read yours) is allowed.

Having said that, people also have to realise that sometimes readers get busy too. I stopped ready PaddyJuan's fic (which is absolutely brilliant) because I didn't have time anymore. I mean to get back to it, but that means making time in an otherwise busy schedual.

Kithera

 

SOLICITING'S NOT ALLOWED TO BEGIN WITH!?!

Arrrrrrrrr!


Oh, I'm fumin' now!!!


Had I known that at the time I woulda been all over their butts.

Not everyone I'm mad at sent me a PM for soliciting, though. Most just up and walked out on my fic because I didn't read theirs. Though no one told me they'd not read mine because I wouldn't read theirs, it's kinda obvious that's their reason. After all, why would you so highly praise somthing on page 5, and walk out on page 6 without mention? I know they're still around, because I see them all the time around these boards. SO I know they didn't cancel internet or something like that.

 

Hmmm....

Don't get steamed up yet Cam. I was saying that was what I had thought. I could be wrong (it's not like I haven't ever been before or anything). I get annoyed at people when they obviously solicit though.

Like I said, you are having issues reading other people's fics right? Maybe they are having time constraints reading yours. I sure as hell know I don't walk out on someone's fic without a damn good reason (time constraints mostly). If you can't read theirs for that reason, maybe that is the reason why they are no longer reading yours.

Also, you have to understand that readers come and go too. It's a case or remembering which fic your reading and checking for updates.

Don't automatically assign bad motives to everyone whose walked out. I'm not saying you are, but just be careful. What is true for you in case of time restraints might also be true for someone else.

Kithera

 

I don't do the read-other-peoples-fics-just-cuz-they-read-mine. I read what interests me! And I don't go around asking for reviewers, either... don't be afraid to just refuse - it will save you alot of time and stress!

 

Same thing somebody else asked me to read a story. I read it, and I loved it, but the story was not part of my style. I lost some readers one time because I did not let Qui-Gon spank Obi-Wan bla bla.

When I read some stories I do because I like it.

I never ask people to read my stories, but when a reader drop my story I normally ask her o him the reason, so I can correct my story. I got one time in answer, from one reader, and I corrected the mistakes. However there are some readers that they never say anything. I found that little off.
Please do not ge upset with my post.
okay?

 

KIT RE: PMing' folks

In my case I have a few authors whom I HOPE will PM me with an update as I would go MAD with the amounts of ATN's I would receive... If you decided to draft such a ruling, please make a contingency for 'solicited' PM's....

 

Yeah, I like it when authors PM me with updates, especially when they don't update that much. I read an awful lot of fics, and sometimes I miss out on things. I also periodically ask people in my story thread what they think about PMs for a story. LOL, nobody ever seems to answer that question.

Jae Angel

 

Hear, hear Cam! I absolutely agree with you. And I, for one, don't think your delivery was too harsh, merely warranted.

There is a system of expectations around here that has become rather irritating. I think it involves both fic-reading and the Watched User Lists. When someone reviews your fic, it often seems to be for the sole purpose of requesting that you read their fic, which I think is in very bad taste. Additionally, people will repeatedly 'up' fics to please the author or to beg for a new post. I don't think this is what fanfic is supposed to be about. As others have said, you should be able to read what you like, and not read that which simply doesn't catch your fancy.

Also, receiving constant PM's from various people informing me that their fic has been updated is somewhat annoying as well. It seems invasive and inappropriate.

And then, when someone adds you to their watched user list, it often seems expected that you then add him/her to yours; often people ask for it. In rebellion, I have no watched users. But the point is, both fanfic readering and the WUL have turned into an enormous popularity contest.

That said, I don't think the situation is entirely dire. I also don't think there is anything to be done about it. Such is human nature, and it's a minor annoyance that we have to put up with. But it certainly feels good to vent.

 

Yeah there is one going on in the Before the Saga. I feel there some kind of pressure.
One thing I do not like to write about child abuse. Once more I lost some readers because I made Qui-Gon is a nice guy with Obi-Wan.

I have a beta reader that helps me out with my grammar since English is not my first language.

One time one reader went too hard with me about it, and I got a beta reader. I corrected the whole story, but I think that the reader should review my corrections, and say something. Well the reader never went back.
Nice?

 

Just a note, some people might not be aware soliciting is considered to be rude (or against the rules? - I thought it was). I had a newbie do that on one of my fics at some point, I kindly said (by PM, I think) that doing that is generally considered rude - and she apologized. She didn't know that. And she was so embarrassed.

But anyway.

 

Well I did not say anything about soliciting. I think that some writters's feeling are hurt. We have to learn from are mistakes. The readers can help writters with their stories.

Also in summer people are normally busy with outdoors activities. Some are watching Star Wars III with the webcam. I found there 10 readers looking the last chapter of Star Wars. cool me too.

 

I agree with your post, Cam. I'm fortunate enough to have some very loyal readers who don't make me feel obligated. However, in the past that has been a problem.

I'm very choosy about what fics I reply to because of that. I only post my responses for fics that I really enjoy. Otherwise I simply lurk around until I'm sure I have the time to keep up with the story full time. That way I avoid having people send me PMs every other day alerting me to an update.

Lately I've found it difficult to keep up with the three fics I read faithfully muchless any extra ones. I hope to catch up with a lot of other stories when Darth Real life eases up on me.

 

Several months ago I was having problems with people PMing me to read their stories (people I'd never heard of - I don't mind it from my friends) and with people posting in my threads to advertise their stories. The story in question was rather popular, so it was understandable that people would want to use the thread as a billboard. Still, it was irritating to have my story turn into TBS or WGN, with ten minutes of commercials between segments - well, I hope I had better programming.

Anyway, I talked to JG about it to find out if this was acceptable, and she wrote up the "Do's and Don't's of promoting your story" in response to it. One of the things mentioned as a "don't" was this:

Don't spam every thread about involved characters saying "Read my story!" (though of course, if you click into those threads to talk about writing the character, it's not spam to say, "Hey, I'm writing a story where I need Dorme to fly a fighter... anyone know if she knows how?"--this could generate readers, but it's an actual question).

I know we've often heard it said to newbies (and I've said it myself) to read stories that involve the same characters or eras as yours. However, I don't think this has ever been intended to be a setup of "you read mine, I read yours." My impression of it has always been this: read and reply to stories. Not only will this encourage the author, it'll get your name out. The author may or may not "return the favor," so to speak, but more than likely this will get people who are interested in those characters and eras to recognize your screen name. If you leave intelligent, well-worded feedback, other readers will remember it. The point of telling people to read other authors' stories and reply is really just to get your name out.

It may or may not work. That's a given. I don't read nearly as much as I used to, and I still manage to get readers, depending on the era. (My prequel fics don't do as well, but that might be because I don't finish them often enough. ) Others read lots and lots of stories, but don't get as many readers. Honestly, I think that getting readers in the early stages of one's fan fic career can have as much to do with luck as it does with talent or subject.

Mel

 

Titles can also have a lot to do with getting readers. If you have a catchy title, regardless of if it sounds pretty or holds deeper meaning (my beta and I argue a lot about this), you'll probably stand a better chance of getting readers. This sort of plays into the "luck" category too, since you have to luck out to find a title that draws people in. It's sort of like reading people, but not.

Jae Angel

 

I'm so happy that this has been addressed. It is a long time in coming.

I don't know how many times that readers that I've had for quite awhile seem to vanish into thin air because they write a fic and I don't respond in theirs, or I quit their story for some reason. (Usually because I have no time anymore to read it)

I'm a huge fan of fan fiction, but I have usually about 10 stories of my own on the go, and with a full time job, and other real life stuff, I run out of time to often respond to anyone's fic. I also have taken in responding in the other forums here lately. I've been writing and reading fan fiction for so long I've forgotten what that's like.

As for the sudden surge of authors requesting to read their fics...you're so not kidding about that. I usually get about three, four PM's a week asking to return to fics or check out new ones. It's a real pain getting PM's like that. Especially when an author asks you to come back, and tries to guilt you into it. One said they'd like me to respond, but that's okay if I don't like it anymore. They understand!

What are you supposed to say to that? - Well yeah, I thought your fic was boring three months ago and still do. That's why I stopped reading it...hope yea don't mind!

I felt so guilty after that message I replied to their fic anyways. It was just one of many messages like that though. I get lots of others. Sometimes I wish PM was taken away all together.

 

I guess I take a rather different opinion on all of this, though I do completely understand what you mean Cam_Mulonus

I remember when I first started writing and had only a few readers. It was hard to get people to read what I was writing, but I didn't want to out and out solicit for it. Instead, I started speaking up more on some of the threads I was reading, opening dialogues with those authors. I would ask them about a point in their story, or make some kind of a speculatory comment. By doing that, I was able to make some actual friends online.

Now that my story has grown, both in readers (and in pages ), I still try to occassionally contact some new authors who have stories I find interesting, or to compliment some of the better known writers on their new fics. Although I can't read nearly as much as I used to be able to, (stupid time restraints ) I still find that the "mutual support" aspects available in "I read yours, you read mine" can be helpful.

I understand that a lot of the unsolicited "READ MY STORY!" posts from new readers won't lead to a situation where new friendships or new opinions are discovered, but it seems wrong to out-and-out bash this system without looking at some of the good aspects of it as well.

CK

 

That's a good point, CK, and one I hadn't considered. I actually think I got a few readers that way, though I didn't really do it consciously. I just figured their story was so good I had to give a good response.

You're so smart, dear - I'm always agreeing with you.



Anyway, I think the only in the thread title says it all. Forget the rules - I don't think that's the right thing to do. Then you would get readers who don't care for your story, and they would get readers who don't really care for their own stories.

 

Darth Breezy wrote :

KIT RE: PMing' folks

In my case I have a few authors whom I HOPE will PM me with an update as I would go MAD with the amounts of ATN's I would receive... If you decided to draft such a ruling, please make a contingency for 'solicited' PM's....

No, I have no issue with readers being updated. It's a useful thing to do. So, it definitely wouldn't take in that area.

What I'm talking about is people who you don't know PMing you out of the blue to tell you about the wonderful story they've written. That's the irritating stuff, and the thing I thought wasn't allowed.

Kithera