Discussion Force Creations - Good & Evil and the path of the Chosen One

OK, stay with me on this one....

In the PT and the Plagueis novel we learned that Anakin - "the chosen one and the one that will bring balance to the force" - was "birthed" because the Sith were returning and messing around with the force. So, the force - in an effort to balance the universe AWAY from EVIL, created GOOD and a being that could counter that evil force.

So, in the OT, Anakin kills Palpatine and now everything is balanced. Anakin, the chosen one, dies (by the forces design??).

But, you would think there has to be a counterpoint to the force creating GOOD - meaning it can also create EVIL.

So, if you think of it - now we are not balanced at all. There is only GOOD. So, does the force now create an EVIL to balance out? Or do we think "balance" is only good and no evil?

I would imagine this might be too radical for a ST to be based around. But, evil needs to return in some sort of a way. If the force could create "good" - who is to say it cant create "evil"?

And then, if it does create "evil" to balance out the "good". And if EVIL does start to rule - do you think we may see ANOTHER CHOSEN ONE?

Also, do you think the prophecy/balance INCLUDES the death of the chosen one after he destroys evil?


-C

 

This seems to have a very loose connection to Ep 7 and ST discussion. This type of discussion takes place a lot already, in the OT, PT, and Saga forums at least.

Having said that, I think the movies do not confirm whether it was the Sith or the Force itself that created Anakin. At any rate, I don't think creating evil is a necessary counterpoint to creating good, if the Sith or the Force necessarily even created good when they created Anakin in the first place. The chosen one is said to return balance to the Force, and that's a good thing. But balance in the Force doesn't mean it would have to create evil too. Balance in this case does not mean equal numbers or equal strength of opposing sides... it means something more like "harmony". The Sith use the dark side for destructive, self-serving purposes that make the dark side grow beyond its normal, naturally small size within the Force as a whole. That throws the Force out of balance. Bringing balance to the Force occurs when the chosen one destroys those (the Sith in this case) who are using the dark side in those ways.

 

Well, I think it has barring on VII and the ST based on the fact that we have really no baddie in mind. I think everyone here is pretty sure it has to be a Sith - right? They are the heart of the Star Wars story as the Jedi are.

So, if it is the Sith, how do they return? Well, thats been talked about a lot. But, more specifically, is the role of "the force" in the ST.

I agree that "balance" is more of a "harmony" than good and evil being equal. But, it's an interesting theory that now we are too "Good" and we need to balance good with evil.

You never know, maybe its always some new Jedi goes rogue. And since they have Jedi powers, they become the new sith? Seemed to be the case for Dooku and Anakin. So maybe the force balances Jedis-gone-bad with "chosen ones"?

It would be interesting too see if we get a new "chosen one" in the ST...

-C

 

Thanks for that first point... that will help justify keeping this thread open.

Honestly, though... I could just as well see them having a new Jedi fall to the dark side and start the Sith order up again. I don't think an "evil chosen one" type scenario seems as likely. The chosen one was a Jedi concept, but if the Force's will wants a chosen one to exist, it would want it to exist for the benefit of the Force, not to its detriment. The Sith are "bad" because they throw the Force out of balance by using the dark side.

 

All of this is only possible as speculation because the films did very little, if anything, to describe what bringing balance to the Force even meant, or what the prophecy was really all about; true, The Clone Wars made a rather beautiful and impressionistic attempt to discuss these issues, but though I really liked those episodes, the answers provided therein (if indeed they can be interpreted as such) wouldn't be sufficient for John Q. Popcorn, and to some extent they weren't even sufficient for me. The very vagueness of the entire affair can leave so many holes open for Arndt that I imagine, if only to tie all three trilogies together in some fashion, the prophecy and the entire question the Force being either balanced or unbalanced could still come into play into the ST.

 

OK, lets take it that way for a bit. So if a Jedi falls to the dark side and starts up the Sith again, dont we need another "chosen one" to be birthed by the force to eradicate them?

I know the EU says no, but from a film prospective, it seems that the precedent is set that Sith can only be balanced by a chosen one...and not just any random jedi (even Yoda, the all powerful, failed)

-C

 

I know, good point. Open up a potential can of worms, this Sith business does.

 

I'd rather if they kept as far away from all the prophecies and chosen ones. It just makes a mess of things.

 

Well, it really depends on what is meant by 'Balance', doesn't it? If Anakin was indeed the Chosen One, and he fulfilled the prophesy by sacrificing himself and killing Palpatine, then 'Balance' could easily mean no Jedi OR Sith, period. The Force is only in balance when it is not conflicting with itself.
As far as we know, in the ST there could easily be NO Jedi or Sith as we know them.

And, yes - Luke proclaimed he was a Jedi in defiance of the Emperor, but at the same time he cast aside his weapon. We're only assuming he'll continue on that path from the EU.

 

I guess my thought would be that there is so much vagueness to the prophecy we already have that we really don't know how things would work. We are never really told anything about the original chosen one prophecy to begin with. The closest we come is hearing people vague interpretations of it. For all we know there could be something in the prophecy hinting that there is a chosen one lineage that continual works to keep the force in balance aka the Skywalker line. It's really hard to say one way or the other without have any concrete evidence as to what the heck the prophecy is to begin with.

 

If they want Sith, that's NOT the way to do it.

 

I feel that the Force is neutral. It's what you do with it that makes it good or evil. Which is why I never bought into the virgin birth thing from the PT.

 

I don't think that's a reasonable description of the state of things at the end of ROTJ. Just because the Sith have been defeated does not mean "there is only good".

It's the balance of the Force, not a balance of Force-users, and specifically not the most trivial form of such a balance.

 

I know that this will not be a popular opinion on these forums but a lot of these questions are answered in The Clone Wars. The only thing aside from the movies that is straight up G-level canon.

Now what that brings up is the fact that the Mortis Trilogy fully explained what the prophecy was. Anakin was to take the Father's place and balance out the Son and Daughter. Anakin didn't do that, the Son revealed what his future was to be and the Father wiped that from Anakin's mind, not knowing if he saved or doomed the galaxy.

The next thing that TCW brought up was Darth Maul. Love him or hate him he is still alive and in charge of the Mandalorians. As well as a pretty potent criminal empire. Mother Talzin is still around as well, a dark side witch who's deities happen to be the animal forms of the Son and the Daughter. Don't think for an instant that some of these things won't be touched upon in the Sequels.

 

Choosen One? Is that like a clone of the Chosen One?

/thread

 

Technically, T-canon.

 

I guess I would say to still be slightly cautious on taking everything in that show as gospel. After all, didn't Lucas have a very different idea in mind for the ending? Don't want to express details to avoid inadvertently spoiling someone who hasn't seen it yet.

My point being, Lucas didn't have 100% say in everything that happened in the show. Not saying it should be ignored. I actually really like the show, but I would be a little skeptical on using it to answer all this stuff.

 

Okay to address a couple things. According to Pablo Hidalgo and Leland Chee the outline given for canon status in the Essential Reader's Guide is what is now followed by LFL. Meaning the Seven movies and TCW are canon, everything else; books, games, comics etc., run parallel to but not equal to the movies or TCW.

If we are talking about Lucas having 100% control over TCW then other things have to be added to that list. For example Empire Strikes Back, Return of the Jedi, and the new movies that are coming. Even though Lucas didn't have his hands all over TCW it is still right up there with the movies.

Another thing to take a look at: A lot of people feel and like to believe that Disney is trying to brush TCW under the rug, but the four part arc covering Darth Maul is being shown as a feature length film at CE II. Why? If we are to forget what has come before why show THAT arc in particular at CE II? Especially when you consider how powerful the final four episodes of TCW were.

Out of respect to those that haven't seen the ending of the series there were very intriguing things brought up in those four episodes alone that could definitely have a role to play in the Sequels as well, in terms of atmosphere and themes.

 

I'm hoping the sequels steer far clear of all of that chosen one, balance to the force, prophesy malarkey. I don't think the new movies should address those aspects at all.

 

The sequels should lay out the canon commandments on stone tablets, to settle things once and for all.

 

They already have told us what to think of the EU, they are going to ignore post ROTJ EU and tell us the story they want to tell. That's what the EU is really worth. It's not part of the story. It is it's own collection of stories, despite whatever marketing would have you believe. The fact that Lucas casts it aside whenever he wishes tells you it's true nature.