main
side
curve
  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Saga Force Ghost Question

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by darkspine10, Apr 23, 2015.

  1. thejeditraitor

    thejeditraitor Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    in aotc probably.
     
  2. Alexrd

    Alexrd Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 7, 2009
    He did talk (yell) to him, but he wasn't Vader yet.
     
  3. MotivateR5D4

    MotivateR5D4 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 20, 2015
    Just some food for thought questions I had while I was reading this thread.

    - Other than the Jedi we see in the films, are there any sequences in the EU where any other Jedi are able to manifest themselves as ghosts?
    - Since at the end of ROTJ in the revised edition, which I assume is official canon, how was Anakin able to manifest himself as a ghost of his younger self? Are we to assume that other Jedis can do this as well?
    - Will Luke be able to manifest himself as a ghost when he eventually dies?
     
  4. darkspine10

    darkspine10 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Dec 7, 2014
    The Father force ghosts in TCW.
     
    thejeditraitor likes this.
  5. jakobitis89

    jakobitis89 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2015
    Anakin was exceptionally powerful so maybe got a head-start on the whole 'Force Ghost' deal - not to mention that if the theory is correct in the most literal sense as well as symbolic, he was literally created by the Force (Shmi is pretty convinced there was no 'real' father... at all. And she really ought to know) which again suggests he's got advantages in the ghost department.
    Luke may or may not be able to learn the ability, he's powerful enough (if power plays any part, which is debatable) and learned from the two masters who first accomplished full ghost manifestation (Qui-Gonn could only retake physical shape at exceptional moments) though neither bothered to mention what happens when his time is up. Unless there was any real need for him to be back though (say another promising young Jedi fighting a terrible threat) it seems in character that he'd probably head off to be one with the Force unless merchandise plot contrivance he's needed back.
     
    Iron_lord likes this.
  6. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001
    In the old EU, there was tons of Force ghosts running around. Most of these were from before AOTC, where Lucas first said that it takes a lot of work to pull it off and it wasn't something that was common. ROTS fleshed it out. TCW had an arc where Yoda learns about Force ghosts and sees the Priestesses who are all ghosts.

    A Shaman of the Whills taught Qui-gon, who passed his knowledge on to Yoda and Obi-wan. They, in turn, helped Anakin. He just looks young because Lucas wanted Anakin to appear young as a way of tying to the PT and to distinguish that the good man was here and that the older, burnt Anakin was his evil self even though he died as a good man.

    Old EU, he did in the "Legacy" series set long after his death. Current film continuity and EU, I would assume that the Jedi taught him how to do that.
     
  7. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    I'm told that they were originally all one person - but somehow they were split into five different personalities. This may have been said by someone quoting a Dave Filoni interview.
     
    Jedi Knight Fett likes this.
  8. FARK2005

    FARK2005 Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Sep 3, 2012
    The way I see it, a force ghost is the essence/soul of a living, force-sensitive being and therefore it should be able to retain the full imprint and memory of all its former physical forms – not just be stuck with the form it had upon dying. So Obi-Wan and Yoda should be able to appear as their younger selves, but they chose to appear in the forms they had when they died because that was how Luke knew them.

    In that light, concerning Anakin, it makes far more sense for him to appear as his younger self rather than an elderly man that he never was physically, because his spirit shouldn’t have any memory of the form – how would he know how he would have looked like had he never become Dart Vader?

    (That being said, I do prefer Shaw’s Anakin-ghost because he seems at peace with himself and he practically glows with pride and love for his children.)
     
    Iron_lord likes this.
  9. MotivateR5D4

    MotivateR5D4 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 20, 2015
    I agree, and there's also another way to look at it. That upon death a true Jedi master can manipulate a person's thoughts into seeing what they want them to see. So, perhaps a Force Ghost has no actual manifested form and only exists in the recipient's mind. They can present themselves in one way or another to whoever it is they are trying to communicate with and based on whatever circumstances require a particular form. Which could be an explanation why Leia didn't see them, because they were not a physical manifestation and only existed in Luke's head. It could also be why they only sometimes choose to speak with the recipient and not appear to them.

    I use that scene in ESB when Yoda creates the Vader confrontation sequence for Luke in the swamp cave and has Luke see his own face inside Vader's helmet. Obviously, Yoda had a tremendous power and ability to manipulate another person's mind so strongly. So in death, I can only assume that ability becomes even stronger.
     
  10. BriXman

    BriXman Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    May 3, 2015

    However if Vaders/Anakins body disappears off screen, then how could his burnt skull be seen in the second The Force Awakens trailer?
     
  11. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    Just looks like Vader's helmet to me.
     
  12. BriXman

    BriXman Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    May 3, 2015

    That's what I thought at first as well, but when I took a closer look at it you can acctually see a broken and burnt head/skull inside it. Another thing to note, going off topic, if Luke took off his helmet when Vader died, then why did he put it back on when his body was burnt as the jedi usually do.
     
  13. BriXman

    BriXman Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    May 3, 2015

    Although most Star Wars fans (including me) hate that change they did, adding Hayden Christensen instead of the older Anakin. I mean, it really wouldn't have mattered if you look from Lukes perspective, as he wouldn't recognize either of them. Even though, looking at the story's point of view, then appearing as Hayden Christensen makes more sense than an old version that he never was, as you said. Like in the video "How Star Wars Episode 6 Should Have Ended" he first appears as the burnt anakin with both his arms and legs chopped off, as a joke.
     
  14. Seagoat

    Seagoat Former Manager star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jan 25, 2013
    Most? Oh, so you've somehow managed to gather up every single SW fan in the world and ask all of them their opinions and found that more than 50% state that they hate the change? I'm impressed!
     
    darth-sinister likes this.
  15. BriXman

    BriXman Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    May 3, 2015

    No, I haven't, but all Star Wars fans I've talked to (and every youtube video covering the special editions changes) say that it's a bad change. It wasn't needed, and it made the scene worse according to me and those people, and it was only made to relate to the prequel trilogy, but the sacrifices that took wasn't worth it in our opinion.
     
  16. darkspine10

    darkspine10 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Dec 7, 2014
    Not all Star Wars fans...
     
  17. BriXman

    BriXman Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    May 3, 2015

    All Star Wars fans that I've gotten their opinion of, until now then.
     
  18. Seagoat

    Seagoat Former Manager star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jan 25, 2013
    Because the Youtube comment section is by far the best place to look for opinions to represent a majority
     
    thejeditraitor and darskpine10 like this.
  19. DarthIshyZ

    DarthIshyZ Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jan 8, 2005
    Seagoat and BriXman, chill folks, please. This is a polite discussion. No need for flames.

    Best thought I can give is that he's burning Darth Vader. Anyone who happens on the pyre would recognize that. No one other than Leia and a couple Force Ghosts know that Vader is Luke's father. That's a bit of news that, in the EU at least, can cause Luke no end of problems. Best to burn the "Evil Darth Vader who used to be a Jedi" and sweep that other piece of information under a rug somewhere.
     
  20. Seagoat

    Seagoat Former Manager star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jan 25, 2013
    Flames? If you're referring to my last comment, that was meant to portray ennui, not malice. My bad if you interpreted it as the latter. My bad
     
  21. BriXman

    BriXman Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    May 3, 2015
    I would also like to apologize, as my formulation of my argument was could have used improvement, as my meaning was that my view of it is (and as said most people I've talked to and Youtube commentors on the subject) share my opinion, that it is a bad change (HelloGreedo, StarGeek and others), giving me the thought that it is a majority. I apologize if you got that wrong, because reading it myself even confuses me.
     
    Lt.Cmdr.Thrawn likes this.
  22. Seagoat

    Seagoat Former Manager star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jan 25, 2013
    Ditto

    By my own admission, I tend to overreact to this kind of stuff. Hearing one's opinion is just fine by me, but I feel a little annoyance when one tries to speak for the alleged majority of a fanbase. So, sorry if I was a tad aggressive there
     
    Lt.Cmdr.Thrawn likes this.
  23. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001
    Since we've all seen the trailer, I'll just post this here.


    [​IMG]

    It kinda looks like Anakin's skull, but it also looks like the helmet itself. As to the rest, Luke took it with him as a symbolic gesture of destroying the suit.
     
    Iron_lord likes this.
  24. thejeditraitor

    thejeditraitor Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    luke doesn't have it. that's all i can say.
     
  25. BriXman

    BriXman Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    May 3, 2015
    Let's carry on with the discussion.

    After reading this thread, I'm starting to believe in the theary that they manipulate one person's mind at a time, as in ESB it seems as only Yoda is talking to Ben, and Luke can't hear him. And also when Ben shows up at Hoth Han rides through him, probably disturbing Luke's focus on Ben and thus making him disappear.

    This is probably false however, but I think you get the hang of it.