Force Ghosts and the Jedi of the PT

The closest explaination of the Force Ghost ability from an official source is the following from the original ROTS script:

On the isolated asteroid of Polis Massa, YODA meditates.

YODA: Failed to stop the Sith Lord, I have. Still much to learn, there is ...

QUI -GON: (V.O.) Patience. You will have time. I did not. When I became one with the Force I made a great discovery. With my training, you will be able to merge with the Force at will. Your physical self will fade away, but you will still retain your consciousness. You will become more powerful than any Sith.

YODA: Eternal consciousness.

QUI-GON: (V.O.) The ability to defy oblivion can be achieved, but only for oneself. It was accomplished by a Shaman of the Whills. It is a state acquired through compassion, not greed.

YODA: . . . to become one with the Force, and influence still have . . . A power greater than all, it is.

QUI-GON: (V.O.) You will learn to let go of everything. No attachment, no thought of self. No physical self.

YODA: A great Jedi Master, you have become, Qui-Gon Jinn. Your apprentice I gratefully become.

My questions are the following.

Are we meant to take away from this that the Jedi that don't attain this ability in the PT are either too greedy or do not have enough compassion???

How do Yoda and Obi Wan show anymore compassion in the OT???

And also how come in the Mortis Trilogy of TCW there was a conscious decision made to make Father vanish when he died but Daughter did not vanish and needed to be buried?

A thought, anyone?

 

No, we are not, IMO. The Jedi that don't attain this ability in the PT did not learn it. Compassion as a prerequisite is meant as an expression of the idea that Sith don't ghost ( though in the EU they can sometimes be Sith Spirits ) because it is a high-level light side ability. Another prerequisite is actually having the ability passed down.

 

Thanks for this and I sort of agree except for the fact that anakin manages with no training and the whole mortis thing which tried to make out that somehow a balanced individual ghosts where as a purely light sided individual doesn't

 

No, it didn't. Anakin manages to become a ghost because he is the Chosen One. The Father on Mortis fades away either because he has the knowledge, or because he's the source of the whole place. Either way, it doesn't show that a balanced individual ghosts and a light sided one doesn't.

 

According to Lucas Anakin ghosts because of the assistance of Obi-Wan and Yoda ( ROTJ commentary ). IIRC this is also mentioned in the Annotated Screenplays.

 

That is purely speculation. I have never seen or read anything to support the view that anakin can just because he is the chosen one or that father is the source of mortis.

 

That is purely speculation. I have never seen or read anything to support the view that anakin can just because he is the chosen one or that father is the source of mortis.

 

You're right. Somehow I thought it was due to him being the Chosen One, and the prophecy being fulfilled. Probably read it somewhere.

Regarding Mortis, it is. But the same can be said about your comment.

 

It was better before George Lucas came up with that lame retcon of an explanation and when we could just assume that all dead Force-users had the ability to do it >=(

 

I think it is clear that to retain ones consciousness (or be a Force Ghost) one must give themselves completely to the Living Force philosophy. In other words one must be completely balanced in order to obtain this ability. The reason the Jedi in the PT can?t is because they don?t completely follow the Living Force and are not balanced.

Qui-Gon Jinn ? Initially he is not balanced, however he learns this within the Netherworld of the Force from the Sharman of the Whills. As such he returns to the ?temporal world? as a spirit and is the first recorded instance of one being able to obtain this ability.

Yoda and Obi-Wan ? They gain this ability from Qui-Gon. Throughout the Dark Times they learn to follow the Living Force in all entirety. As such, by the time they die, they are completely balanced beings.

Anakin Skywalker ? Once again it is about finding balance, however he does not obtain it from Qui-Gon. Rather, in his final act in bringing balance to the Force (as was always required), he managed to follow the Living Force and find a balance within himself. It was this ability which enabled him to retain his consciousness after death.

The Father ? This is essentially a metaphorical statement about this whole thing. The Father, obviously, is balanced and is a proponent of the Living Force as Qui-Gon is. This is the reason why he disappears and, presumably, is now a Force Ghost.

Essentially what is key to all of this is being removed from Jedi dogma, which is ultimately preventing the PT Jedi from obtaining the necessary balance. Qui-Gon refuted the dogma, Yoda and Obi-Wan were removed from it for a considerable amount of time, the Father is obviously not a Jedi and Luke presumably is also able to retain his consciousness after he dies.

It?s all about finding balance and following the Living Force. Presumably this is what Luke?s Jedi Order will be based on.

 

Would you agree the reason the PT Jedi are not balanced is because their code forbids them from virtually every emotion including love?

 

I would argue their code and dogma prevents them ?following their instincts?. It is because of this dogma which Qui-Gon, a proponent of the Living Force, and the Jedi Council clash.

I see what Alexrd and Arawn are saying however I think balance is definitely the key here. Anakin finds balance (in order to fulfil the prophecy), the Father is metaphorical balance and Qui-Gon is obviously the key proponent of the Living Force (balance) philosophy. I think it is fairly obvious this isn?t simply an ability but is rather ?taught? by finding balance through the Living Force. In my opinion the Jedi dogma prevents this balance, and by having it removed people are able to find it (Father is not a Jedi, Qui-Gon refutes the dogma, Yoda and Obi-Wan are removed from it for almost 20 years and Anakin is obviously removed from it ever since he falls from grace).

In my opinion there is a reason it was noted that the Father disappeared and the Son and Daughter didn?t... he was the representation of balance... and as such he disappears...

I think saying the reason the Father disappears is because he simply ?has the knowledge? is not only incorrect but it also disputes the whole point of the Mortis trilogy. It?s like saying ?why did he disappear?.... ?oh well he must have had the knowledge?. It is not implied and everything in the Mortis trilogy seems to be implied or metaphorical. What was the key difference between the Father from his children? He was balanced. As such logic would say that the reason he disappeared was because of his balance... saying that he ?simply had the knowledge? defeats the purpose and it seems completely un-metaphorical and un-meaningful... it also makes the comment in the episode guide somewhat meaningless since it clearly hints at a metaphor being portrayed... if that makes sense.

 

It does and I concur

 

The fact that he was assisted by Yoda and Obi-Wan definitely relates to the fact that he turned back to the light and fulfilled the prophecy.

 

As far as I'm concerned the Jedi can understand the Force as much as a Neanderthal can a burning fire; they can utilize it, touch it, but can never begin to understand its true nature. Therefore I take nothing they say about the Force at face value.