Lit Force ghosts in the EU

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Brenapp, Nov 28, 2012.

  1. Brenapp Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2012
    star 2
    I don't think there's anything in Vader's reaction to Obi-Wan's disappearance in ANH to suggest that was the first time he'd seen such a thing happen.
  2. Zorrixor Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2004
    star 6
    Had Lucas not sold up first, I'd still say that it a planned tactic to get us to buy future Special Editions that added in pre-recorded footage with Neeson.

    Kind of like video games and DLC these days. :p
  3. Brenapp Jedi Padawan

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    Nov 26, 2012
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    It should probably be noted here that the final film version of ROTS contains no mention of a shaman of the Whills teaching Qui-Gon, or of Qui-Gon being the first to gain the ability. In that case, can't we just ignore that, and assume that dead Jedi disappearing and surviving as Force ghosts is not something that happens to all Jedi, just those with the strongest, deepest connections to the Force? It would be like the references in the ROTJ novel to Obi-Wan trying to convince Anakin to return to the light, where ROTS showed that Obi-Wan firmly believed there was no saving Anakin at that point.
  4. Dawud786 Jedi Master

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    Dec 28, 2006
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    I'd prefer it have something to do with a Jedi having a very strong sense of self-sacrifice. Which is, in part, why I like the explanation of it being an ability taught by Qui-Gon. It makes it sound like a meditational thing, not just some ability akin to telekinesis... but something that takes years of endeavor in meditation and ego killing. Much like the Sufi notion of fana wa baqa.... annihilation and subsistence in God. It comes from "dying before death" to their selfish desires. I prefer to think of Anakin's retaining his consciousness in the capacity of martyrdom... at the very end he gave his life for someone other than himself, and for the cause of justice and for the sake of the Force's balance. To me that's deserving of this kind of immortality where-in his conscious self is capable of awareness of the corporeal world and interacting with it to some extent. I don't like the notion that he was taught a meditation technique in that vague isthmus between physical life and spiritual dissolution into the Big Electron(Whoa).
    Last edited by Dawud786, Dec 1, 2012
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  5. Ulicus Lit'ari [Literature Forum Manager]

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    Jul 24, 2005
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    Whether Vader had ever reached Knighthood or enlightenment is largely irrelevant, though. I'm saying that a guy who'd killed a multitude of Jedi Knights would be very familiar with the disappearing trick if it was standard.

    Ah, yes, the ol' "CLOAK OR CROKE?" principle. Quite right.
    Last edited by Ulicus, Dec 1, 2012
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  6. Brenapp Jedi Padawan

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    Nov 26, 2012
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    Here's a thought: Could the ancient Jedi have deliberately suppressed the knowledge of how to become a Force ghost upon the death of the physical body? Why would they do that though?
  7. Zorrixor Force Ghost

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    Sep 8, 2004
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    The crokes on Vader if he'd still been alive though.
  8. Arawn_Fenn Jedi Grand Master

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    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    Yeah, it would be like that, because in both cases you're rewriting the demonstrated intent of ROTS. Obi-Wan tried to get Anakin to back down several times. This was not Obi-Wan cynically and uncharacteristically trying to goad Anakin into further action, as proponents of the "ROTS contradicted ROTJ" position have recently insisted in a tortured attempt to rescue their stance. It was Obi-Wan trying to get Anakin to back down. Obi-Wan is not Yoda.
    Last edited by Arawn_Fenn, Dec 1, 2012
  9. _Catherine_ Jedi Grand Master

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    Jun 16, 2007
    star 4
    They didn't want to pay Liam Neeson.
    Last edited by _Catherine_, Dec 1, 2012
  10. Zeta1127 Jedi Master

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    Sep 2, 2012
    star 5
    The way I see it, Obi-Wan simply gave up on Anakin after Mustafar.
  11. Brenapp Jedi Padawan

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    Nov 26, 2012
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    So, any theories as to what could have caused the old Jedi Order to lose the ability to linger in the physical universe as phantoms after the death of the body?
  12. Iron_lord Force Ghost

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    Sep 2, 2012
    star 8
    Maybe after they banned marriage, or after they insisted on training children from infancy, the Force stopped being with them in that sense- a trade-off.
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  13. Dawud786 Jedi Master

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    Dec 28, 2006
    star 4
    Well, Qui-Gon tells Yoda that it involves relinquishing all attachments... to the world and to self... in the ROTS novelization. Perhaps the Jedi Order lost sight of that kind of one pointed dedication to serving the Force when they started serving the Republic and its Senate. They substituted the Republic as the highest ideal for the balance and will of the Force.

    Some of the Jedi from the era that "ghosted" other than Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan and Yoda, like the Dark Woman, and Qu Rahn(I love his name BTW), could have either been taught or they came to be devoted solely to the Force above and beyond the artifice of the Jedi Order and the Republic.
  14. Zorrixor Force Ghost

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    Sep 8, 2004
    star 6
    Haha, I've never noticed that before, that's awesome.
  15. Dawud786 Jedi Master

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    Dec 28, 2006
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    Pretty great, huh?
  16. Iron_lord Force Ghost

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    Sep 2, 2012
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    I didn't think about it before- but is "Qu Rahn" a pun on "Koran"?
  17. Dawud786 Jedi Master

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    Dec 28, 2006
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    I have not confirmation, but an alternative(and preferred) transliteration is Qur'an. So... probably?
  18. Iron_lord Force Ghost

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    Sep 2, 2012
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    That's what I figured.
  19. jacktherack Jedi Master

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    Mar 19, 2008
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