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Lit Force ghosts in the EU

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Brenapp, Nov 28, 2012.

  1. Brenapp

    Brenapp Jedi Padawan star 2

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    Nov 26, 2012
    I don't think there's anything in Vader's reaction to Obi-Wan's disappearance in ANH to suggest that was the first time he'd seen such a thing happen.
     
  2. Zorrixor

    Zorrixor Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 8, 2004
    Had Lucas not sold up first, I'd still say that it a planned tactic to get us to buy future Special Editions that added in pre-recorded footage with Neeson.

    Kind of like video games and DLC these days. :p
     
  3. Brenapp

    Brenapp Jedi Padawan star 2

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    Nov 26, 2012
    It should probably be noted here that the final film version of ROTS contains no mention of a shaman of the Whills teaching Qui-Gon, or of Qui-Gon being the first to gain the ability. In that case, can't we just ignore that, and assume that dead Jedi disappearing and surviving as Force ghosts is not something that happens to all Jedi, just those with the strongest, deepest connections to the Force? It would be like the references in the ROTJ novel to Obi-Wan trying to convince Anakin to return to the light, where ROTS showed that Obi-Wan firmly believed there was no saving Anakin at that point.
     
  4. Dawud786

    Dawud786 Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Dec 28, 2006
    I'd prefer it have something to do with a Jedi having a very strong sense of self-sacrifice. Which is, in part, why I like the explanation of it being an ability taught by Qui-Gon. It makes it sound like a meditational thing, not just some ability akin to telekinesis... but something that takes years of endeavor in meditation and ego killing. Much like the Sufi notion of fana wa baqa.... annihilation and subsistence in God. It comes from "dying before death" to their selfish desires. I prefer to think of Anakin's retaining his consciousness in the capacity of martyrdom... at the very end he gave his life for someone other than himself, and for the cause of justice and for the sake of the Force's balance. To me that's deserving of this kind of immortality where-in his conscious self is capable of awareness of the corporeal world and interacting with it to some extent. I don't like the notion that he was taught a meditation technique in that vague isthmus between physical life and spiritual dissolution into the Big Electron(Whoa).
     
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  5. Ulicus

    Ulicus Lapsed Moderator star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jul 24, 2005
    Whether Vader had ever reached Knighthood or enlightenment is largely irrelevant, though. I'm saying that a guy who'd killed a multitude of Jedi Knights would be very familiar with the disappearing trick if it was standard.

    Ah, yes, the ol' "CLOAK OR CROKE?" principle. Quite right.
     
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  6. Brenapp

    Brenapp Jedi Padawan star 2

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    Nov 26, 2012
    Here's a thought: Could the ancient Jedi have deliberately suppressed the knowledge of how to become a Force ghost upon the death of the physical body? Why would they do that though?
     
  7. Zorrixor

    Zorrixor Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 8, 2004
    The crokes on Vader if he'd still been alive though.
     
  8. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Force Ghost star 7

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    Jul 2, 2004
    Yeah, it would be like that, because in both cases you're rewriting the demonstrated intent of ROTS. Obi-Wan tried to get Anakin to back down several times. This was not Obi-Wan cynically and uncharacteristically trying to goad Anakin into further action, as proponents of the "ROTS contradicted ROTJ" position have recently insisted in a tortured attempt to rescue their stance. It was Obi-Wan trying to get Anakin to back down. Obi-Wan is not Yoda.
     
  9. _Catherine_

    _Catherine_ Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Jun 16, 2007
    They didn't want to pay Liam Neeson.
     
  10. Zeta1127

    Zeta1127 Jedi Master star 5

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    Sep 2, 2012
    The way I see it, Obi-Wan simply gave up on Anakin after Mustafar.
     
  11. Brenapp

    Brenapp Jedi Padawan star 2

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    Nov 26, 2012
    So, any theories as to what could have caused the old Jedi Order to lose the ability to linger in the physical universe as phantoms after the death of the body?
     
  12. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 8

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    Sep 2, 2012
    Maybe after they banned marriage, or after they insisted on training children from infancy, the Force stopped being with them in that sense- a trade-off.
     
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  13. Dawud786

    Dawud786 Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Dec 28, 2006
    Well, Qui-Gon tells Yoda that it involves relinquishing all attachments... to the world and to self... in the ROTS novelization. Perhaps the Jedi Order lost sight of that kind of one pointed dedication to serving the Force when they started serving the Republic and its Senate. They substituted the Republic as the highest ideal for the balance and will of the Force.

    Some of the Jedi from the era that "ghosted" other than Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan and Yoda, like the Dark Woman, and Qu Rahn(I love his name BTW), could have either been taught or they came to be devoted solely to the Force above and beyond the artifice of the Jedi Order and the Republic.
     
  14. Zorrixor

    Zorrixor Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 8, 2004
    Haha, I've never noticed that before, that's awesome.
     
  15. Dawud786

    Dawud786 Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Dec 28, 2006
    Pretty great, huh?
     
  16. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 8

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    Sep 2, 2012
    I didn't think about it before- but is "Qu Rahn" a pun on "Koran"?
     
  17. Dawud786

    Dawud786 Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Dec 28, 2006
    I have not confirmation, but an alternative(and preferred) transliteration is Qur'an. So... probably?
     
  18. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 8

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    Sep 2, 2012
    That's what I figured.
     
  19. jacktherack

    jacktherack Jedi Master star 4

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    Mar 19, 2008
    also this...