Lit Force Nexuses - What can we conclude?

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Tim Battershell, Sep 29, 2012.

  1. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

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    Sep 3, 2012
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    Probably the best known is the Valley of the Jedi (Valley of the Souls) on Ruusan.

    Kyle Katarn's first visit 'liberated' (at least according to the prophecy) the souls of Jedi General Hoth and his 99 other Jedi Martyrs, leaving only the souls of Kaan and the 'Brotherhood of Darkness' in the Nexus.

    On his second visit to the Valley, he reconnected to the Force by immersing himself in the residual energy of the Nexus, apparently without any Dark-side consequences to himself in either short or longer term.

    Assuming that the prophecy was accurate, does this tend to support the 'Living Force' view of a 'Light' and a 'Dark' side to the Force, or the 'Unifying Force' view that the Force is neutral, and has no "sides" to it?
    Last edited by Tim Battershell, Sep 29, 2012
  2. DarthJenari Force Ghost

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    Weren't all the spirits released and not just the Jedi ones?

    If Sith Spirits were still contained i'd think it'd be a Dark Side Nexus. If it was a Dark Side nexus Kyle wasn't tainted by it in any way after all. From what i've seen there hasn't been any real distinction and its just been a nexus of Force Energy. So it seemed to me that it was always neutral. It was just the Force, which I suppose would support the idea of the Unifying Force.
    Last edited by DarthJenari, Sep 29, 2012
  3. Silas Nightstalker Jedi Master

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    I would say that the individual's inner darkness taints the Force around them, turning it dark. If there were just light and dark sides of the Force, then Vader wouldn't have been able to come back to the light. His own inner goodness was reawakened, transforming his connection to the Force from dark to light. That's my take on it, anyway. I agree with both The Living Force and The Unifying Force in a way. The Force can influence a being, but that being can also influence the Force. When a dark sider follows the guidance of the Force, his inner darkness taints the Force. When a light sider follows the guidance of the Force, his inner goodness brightens the Force. I do believe in a balance.
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  4. DarthJenari Force Ghost

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    That's how i'd put it as well. The Force itself is just the Force, and its the people who use it that make it either "Light" or "Dark". The Living Force is true in a sense, as one must be mindful of the here and now or risk unknowingly allowing himself to become tainted, and therefore end up tainting the Force.
  5. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

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    The Wook has it that the Brotherhood of Darkness remained trapped, and weren't freed by Kyle. FWIW!
  6. DarthJenari Force Ghost

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    Thanks and I stand corrected then. So it'd be a nexus tainted by the Dark Side as it were, or at least I think it would be. However, Kyle himself never showed any changes from entering the Nexus.
  7. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

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    The other reasonably well-known Nexus was revealed to be under the Jedi Temple on Coruscant (Rebel Dream/Stand in the NJO series) which was coveted (and eventually uncapped) by the being going by the name Lord Nyax. I'll have to re-read thse books for a description, but if Dark-side why did the Jedi build their major Temple on top of it, and if Light-side what use would it have been to the (Dark-side-oriented) Nyax? This one may (or may not) have allowed Jacen Solo to reconnect to the Force after Vergere had used the (Light-side power of) Force Sever on him!
  8. DarthJenari Force Ghost

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    I also haven't read NJO in a long time, but from what I remember the Nexus was only tainted by the Dark Side after Lord Nyax perished there, which was when Vergere eventually took Jacen there. So the Jedi themselves built the Temple on a Force Nexus, but not a Dark Side Nexus. Which leads into your question, if it was a Light Side Nexus when Nyax claimed it how could it aid him in any way? Which again just leads into the idea that it was a Nexus of just the Force.
  9. Iron_lord Chosen One

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    If it was a "generic Force nexus"- and Vergere knew it had only become "tainted" after Nyax's death- and yet, when Jacen experienced a degree of "dark" after tapping into it- she claimed that there was no such thing as a "dark nexus"- her behaviour seems a bit suspicious.
  10. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

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    As with all things Vergere, she's enigmatic!

    IIRC, though, Jacen was rather angry at finding the posse of Vong waiting for him, so it could have just been him rather than a tainted Nexus - I'll have to re-read the passages where Luke etc. were fighting Nyax in it for the description of how it looked just after being uncapped and compare that to what Jacen and Vergere saw.
  11. Iron_lord Chosen One

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    Could indeed have been just him.

    After The Essential Guide to Warfare stated outright that it she did train Krayt in using The Dark Side, her comments in Traitor on the necessity of passion in achieving full potential: "Leave your limits behind" do have a certain resonance.
  12. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

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    Which Jacen had to do to win-out against Omni. Mace Windu's "Vaapad" technique also seems to have incorporated elements that seem contrary to (the normally accepted meaning of) the Jedi Code.

    IIRC, Vergere went into this with Luke in one of their interviews.

    As to training Krayt, could we be seeing some Sith character asassinating disinformation there? Vergere's (free and unmonitored) actions throughout her arc of the NJO point to a being with an almost religeous respect for life (even refraining from killing the snakes that were being driven by instinct to hunt and attempt to kill her). That, to me, shouts "Light-sider"!

    That said, she did need a weapon to do some entirely necessary pruning within the Yuuzhan Vong, namely Shmirra and Omni! Any idea, as I've not seen the comics, when Krayt actually became a Dark-sider?
  13. Parnesius Jedi Grand Master

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    Sep 8, 2012
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    Rebel Stand

    p280
    ' "Force energy," [Mara] whispered.
    This must have been a wellspring of it, [Luke] thought. The old Jedi Temple must have been built above because it was here. They were guarding it. And guarding the planet from it. '

    p285
    ' "That fountain of Force energy is what made Nyax stronger," Luke said. "It's pure power...and we can use it, too." '

    No mention is made of there being any darkness to the nexus, which Luke, Mara and Tahiri all draw on extensively.

    p295
    ' "Luke is right," Mara said. Her voice had a distant quality as she tried to interpret what she felt through the Force.. "Nyax is gone. But he's imbued his surroundings with some of his hatred. Some of his last intent."
    [...]
    "It's going to continue," Luke said, "as long as some part of him is there. As long as some part of him can exert his will on his surroundings, and that wellspring of the Force allows it to happen. But he's gone." '
    Last edited by Parnesius, Sep 29, 2012
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  14. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

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    Thanks for that!

    A few years later, though, the Jedi Temple had been repaired and renovated - and the Jedi were in occupation without any sign of lingering Dark-side influence!

    Also, even the heavy Dark-side taints on Vjun, Korriban and Dromund Kaas do not make it impossible for Light-siders to use the Force there!
  15. DarthJenari Force Ghost

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    Its possible his presence faded with time, or the power of the Nexus waned. Do we even know if they rebuilt the temple on the same spot?

    Light Siders can use the Force there, but they do experience some side effects.
  16. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

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    The Wook implies that it was simply rebuilt. The Nexus is described as being 'an unlimited wellspring' so I don't think that it would have waned! As for Nyax, he may not have been of the same calibre as Ragnos or Kun but I'd have expected his prescence to linger longer than a few years!
  17. DarthJenari Force Ghost

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    Then in that situation you actually would have to describe why the Jedi would build their temple on top of a Dark Side Nexus. The original Nexus was more than likely created by the fact that Jedi lived, studied, and grew in that spot for 1,000s of years.
  18. RC-1991 Force Ghost

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    I've kicked around the theory before that the Rakata (who TEA confirms had a presence on Coruscant) left some sort of structures deep beneath what is now the "surface" of Coruscant, and that the Jedi Temple was built over one of them. Not entirely sure if I subscribe to the idea, however. I prefer the "actions imbue a nexus with dark/light" idea.
  19. Manisphere Force Ghost

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    My question is this. Where is the Plagueis Force nexus? In the penthouse of some highrise? Shouldn't he have left a huge angry Force hole right where Palpatine killed him?
    Last edited by Manisphere, Sep 30, 2012
  20. DarthJenari Force Ghost

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    I haven't read his novel, so i'm really not sure how strong he was in the Force, but it does seem to be very rare for a lone individual to create a Force Nexus. The Valley of the Jedi came from thousands of Jedi and Sith souls. The one under the temple could've come from again thousands of Jedi over thousands of years. Korriban has been the home of various Sith Lords for millenia. The only case of one individual creating a Nexus I can think of is Palpatine, and he was the strongest Sith Lord of all time. So if Plagueis wasn't near him in strength then I don't think a Nexus necessarily would've been created from his death.
  21. Manisphere Force Ghost

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    He was definitely near him in strength. That is to say that he was at least Nexus worthy. We'll never really know how close he was to Palps because the two never really had a proper smackdown.
    Last edited by Manisphere, Sep 30, 2012
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  22. Parnesius Jedi Grand Master

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    With regard to Nyax, I think the assumption would be that either his presence remained only briefly, or that Luke somehow purified the wellspring, likely soon after the surrender.

    Incidentally, sealing the wellspring is perhaps the best explanation as to why the Galactic Alliance placed such a priority on rebuilding the Jedi Temple to its original specifications.

    As to its origins, the Temple was erected some time after the Great Hyperspace War. Unless the nexus was somehow created during that conflict's Battle of Coruscant, it was likely already sealed, as the alternative explanation is that for millenia - maybe twenty thousand years - an immensely powerful reservoir of Force energy was sitting on the galactic capital's premier religious site, and apparently nobody ever used or abused it. And in this galaxy, that's stretching credibility.

    Perhaps the Jedi discovered the nexus, or at least its true power, during the aforementioned Sith assault. Indeed, perhaps it was unstoppered the first time.

    If the wellspring predates the Infinite Empire, maybe that plays into their hyperdrive technology latching onto worlds with strong Force presences.

    Now, interesting question: did Palpatine know anything about the wellspring? Did the Jedi successfully keep it a secret, or did Palpatine simply not care about 'artificially' enhancing his own strength? And might any of the Jedi Order's other enemies know about the power concealed beneath their fortress?
  23. Todd the Jedi Mod and Sitcom Dad of SWTV

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    Can't forget the Dark Side Cave on Dagobah. How it became that way is another matter, though. What we know about it is that Yoda probably chose to hide there because it canceled out his light-side presence.
  24. DarthJenari Force Ghost

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    I wish I had my copy of the ROTS novelization, but in the novel Anakin mentioned how the Temple had been home to thousands of Jedi and was an excellent place to meditate and such. IDK, sounded like Nexus talk from what I remember.

    I would think, seeing as he'd been in the Temple, that Palpatine would've been able to sense the Nexus. However, a being who thought of himself as evil incarnate most likely wouldn't have wanted anything to do with a place where Jedi had resided for thousands of years. However, that also raises another interesting point. 100's of Jedi were killed there, and then the Emperor held sway over the planet for decades. I'd think that would've changed the nature of the Nexus in some way. Though perhaps not enough to counteract the thousands of years the Jedi lived there.
  25. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

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    Here's what the Wook says about the Temple Nexus:-

    So apparently the Nexus predated the Temple!