Lit Force Nexuses - What can we conclude?

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Tim Battershell, Sep 29, 2012.

  1. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 5
    Set it to activate by pushing two iconed blocks, then the nexus operates at intervals until Kyle or Desann is dead. I never bothered with it, by the time I'd set Kyle up to use it Desann was usually already there; that or Kyle got thrown across the room or choked! The 'Force Invincibility' effect only lasted a couple of seconds or so, IIRC.
  2. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

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    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    That's because the term the Unifying Force does not mean what Wookieepedia has said it means. It is not an alternative "theory" of the nature of the Force in opposition to duality. It is an aspect of the Force which coexists with the dualistic living Force. As such it is not in conflict with the Jedi understanding of the Force in the way that the Potentium is said to be.
    Last edited by Arawn_Fenn, Oct 5, 2012
    Ulicus likes this.
  3. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

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    Sep 3, 2012
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    :confused: The Wook article's quoted sources seem to be pretty well mainstream - and somewhat respected hereabouts!

    Enlightenment Cube please, as the description also seemed to be the direction that the Order was headed in before Luke's feet got a bit cold about it in DNT!
  4. JediMatteus Force Ghost

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    Sep 16, 2008
    star 4
    yeah to me, the Unifying Force is the long view, it focusing and seeing the future, and is where visions come from. The Unifying Force values the many over the few, while the Living Force is being aware of the present, and values the individual. Qui Gon best reflects the "Living Force", while Yoda better reflects the "Unifying Force". Jacen was also much more focused on the Unifying Force, and that lack of the "Living Force" is what really messed Jacen up.
  5. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

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    Jul 2, 2004
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    "The concept of the Unifying Force was that the Force is a single entity and has neither a light nor a dark side."

    "While similar to the Unifying Force, which suggested that there was only one Force that did not take sides, the Potentium view stated that the Force and the galaxy in general were inherently good."

    These are not quotes from sources, nor are they supported by any quotes which do appear. They merely express the views of anonymous Wookieepedia editors. That is not what the term "the Unifying Force" means. The Unifying Force and the Living Force are not opposing philosophies. They are complementary aspects of the Force according to the Jedi view. They coexist.
  6. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

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    Sep 3, 2012
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    Last edited by Tim Battershell, Oct 6, 2012
  7. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

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    Jul 2, 2004
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    For one thing, this paragraph contradicts itself:

    "The Unifying Force, garnering less support among Jedi than the Living Force, teaches that the Force is a single power and has neither a light side nor a dark side. The Unifying Force has no sides and does not take sides, treating all living creatures equally. This view has been supported by the likes of Vergere and Emperor Palpatine. (The only significant difference between the Jedi view and Palpatine's view is that the Sith see the Force as a means to an end while the Jedi see it as an end in itself.)"

    First it says that the unifying Force garners less support among Jedi than the living Force. Then it says Palpatine supports it. Then it says the only significant difference between the Jedi view and Palpatine's view is that the Sith see the Force as a means to an end while the Jedi see it as an end in itself. We already have a problem here. One sentence alleges that there is a "Jedi view", but it was already alleged that there were competing and oppositional philosophies in the Jedi camp, so what does "the Jedi view" mean? If "the unifying Force" means the Force has no sides, and Palpatine supposedly believes this, and the only significant difference between the Jedi view and Palpatine's view is the "means to an end" thing, then the Jedi view is allegedly that the Force has no sides. But we were already told that "living Force" proponents outnumbered "unifying Force" proponents among the Jedi.

    So how did we get here?

    The paragraph reads like a poorly thought out amalgam of impressions from different sources and possibly invented facts, much like some Wookieepedia entries. Isn't the "means to an end" thing from a Luceno book?

    In fact, the Jedi do believe in the sides of the Force. This is evident from various sources, including the OT films themselves, early scripts, and certain EU texts. One manifestation of this is in Rogue Planet's unequivocal rejection of the Potentium as contradictory to official Jedi belief. Thus it should not be too surprising that their concept of the unifying Force as seen below does not have anything to do with rejecting the sides of the Force. It coexists with the living Force instead of being some kind of competing philosophy.

    "The Force itself breaks into two sides: the living Force and a greater, cosmic Force. The living Force makes you sensitive to other living things, makes you intuitive, and allows you to read other people's minds, et cetera. But the greater Force has to do with destiny." - George Lucas

    "He knew his own weakness. He was too close to the life Force when he should have been more attentive to the unifying Force. He found himself reaching out to the creatures of the present, to those living in the here and now. He had less regard for the past or future, to the creatures that had or would occupy those times and spaces." - TPM novel, p141

    "He would know the truth about Anakin Skywalker. He would discover his place in the Force, both living and unifying." - TPM novel, p142
    Last edited by Arawn_Fenn, Oct 6, 2012
  8. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 5
    Well, I've
    Well, I've just ordered JvS and TJP, so maybe they'll clear it up between them.
  9. Zorrixor Chosen One

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    Sep 8, 2004
    star 6
    Ah, the JATM... I still miss that Mon Mothma being a Sith wasn't canon. :(
  10. Iron_lord Chosen One

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    Sep 2, 2012
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    In Darth Maul, Shadow Hunter- we see Sidious musing on the Force- and part of those musings are

    "The primary difference between the Jedi and the Sith was that the Jedi saw the Force as an end in itself- while the Sith saw it as a means to an end. And that end was Power."

    As well as suggesting that while he taught a "light vs dark" duality to Maul, he didn't much believe in it himself.
  11. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    If sources such as Darth Plagueis are any indication, Luceno's Palpatine believes in the dark side. I'm also not convinced that Shadow Hunter really takes an unequivocal stand against duality, given the handling of the references to the external dark side in the Maul sections. However, this could easily be a case of differing viewpoints being expressed by different authors. For example, is the Potentium belief accurate in the Jedi view? Rogue Planet, like POTJ, says one thing; a later book cowritten by the author of Shadow Hunter says another.

    Well, I think that puts the nail in the coffin on the whole "respected source" thing...
    Last edited by Arawn_Fenn, Oct 8, 2012
  12. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

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    Sep 3, 2012
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    Which doesn't explain why Luke allowed the Order to start going down the 'no light or dark side' route between TUF and DNT. Jedi (other than Kyle and Jaden) wielding Force Lightning, for instance!
  13. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

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    Sep 3, 2012
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    Where does it say that, Zor? Just done a document search and it came up blank!
  14. Iron_lord Chosen One

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    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    In the section on Cilghal, it says that Mon Mothma's illness was caused by Exar Kun possessing her- and that's what she cured. Whereas in the actual novel, it's nano-destroyers.
  15. Ulicus Lit'ari

    Manager
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    Jul 24, 2005
    star 6
    I also heard she was a Croke. But, then, who isn't?
  16. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

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    Sep 3, 2012
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    Thanks for that!

    Any idea if it was intended to be that way originally?
  17. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

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    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    It's not too mysterious. When authors reject the sides of the Force, their characters reject the sides of the Force. When authors reject some powers being exclusive to the dark side, their characters reject some powers being exclusive to the dark side. There is little to no top-down control of what happens in the EU. However, Lucas has publicly spoken of the sides of the Force and dark side powers.
    Last edited by Arawn_Fenn, Oct 9, 2012