Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Vialco, Dec 15, 2012.
and be merged.
In all honesty, I just think it's a bit of sloppy editing there.
If his attack was sped up and recut just a little bit, it would make perfect sense.
Although, I don't mind the scene the way it is.
But if you play that @ 1.5 x normal speed... it all goes down a little smoother.
If you play it back at .5x speed, it may spell out an evil backwards message.
I don't really mind how it was in the film either.
Sidious' yell is something some would consider to be unnatural (It certainly doesn't sound all that human). If you need that to get you over the hump of Sidious wiping out 3 Jedi in a second, then so be it.
Maybe in the next Special Edition they can replace Sidious' scream with a Krayt Dragon call.
I actually love that scream.
It's just a perfect illustration of him being finally "unleashed" after all the years of staying under the radar.
"Ponda Baba is the Walrus".
I like that idea of force scream having momentarily stunned the Jedi. Looking at it that way makes that scene at least tolerable. Usually I just cringe when it comes up.. Mace has just been told that the chancellor, who has already stayed on way past his term of office and gotten many emergency powers, has just been revealed to be the sith lord that has been plotting against them for years...and his response is to take 3 apparently junior grade jedi with him.
I like the scene as it was. Ok it was poorly choreographed, but I think GL had the right idea, Just didn't pull it off well. I've said before the scene would have been better if the Jedi were blasted with lightning knocking them all over, then Palpatine jumps over kills both Tinn and Kolar quickly while Fitso and Windu are getting to their feet. Then the fight carries on as it does in the film.
The Jedi that where taken were Agen Kolar, Saesee Tinn, Kit Fitso and Mace Windu, all of which where Jedi Masters NOT junior grade Jedi as you put it. Although Fitso did say he would have preferred if Yoda, Obi-Wan and Plo Koon where there instead, But I think it was Tinn that said they where all Jedi Masters and more then capable of taking a Sith Lord on his own (Of course Tinn was totally wrong, but still).
I just think this whole "Force Scream" thing is stupid, I mean someone here said it before "4 Jedi Masters being stunned by an old guy shouting at them" I mean seriously how stupid is that. That's why it would have been better with lightning, I mean not only is it surprising, but very powerful too.
I don't think it was the scream, im a huge KOTOR fan but I just think they filmed it that way.
I never really thought it was a scream either until I came across this thread, but it's certainly in there and noticeable as well. Although I think you may be right, but I would definitely would have liked to see some cool force power being used by Palpatine.
The way a bunch of well respected, well experienced Jedi masters got cut down in the movies was unsatisfying to me. It's been a while since I read the book, and I forgot how, and if it is explained there.
There is a more detailed version of this fight that I posted (I believe it was the Did Mace beat Palpatine thread) that should give you some insight as to the idea that GL was trying to go for in this fight scene, But as I say he just didn't pull it off very well.
I know this is a necro, but I really wanted to chime in here because I found this thread via Google.
The way this fight was explained to me is the following:
1) This was a motley crew of Jedi.
During this period the galaxy was in a state of disorder. Having just discovered the true identity of Palpatine, Jedi were immediately dispatched to intercept him almost on a "first available" basis.
2) The screaming:
Palpatine used that scream to stun the Jedi, two of which were rendered totally helpless. And were quickly struck down with two quick strikes. Kit sensed the attack but was killed before able to fully adapt and really defend himself. Those noises hes making are him using the force.
3) So why did Mace do so well against one of the most powerful Sith Lords of all time?
Mace Windu was probably one of the best saber duelists ever to exist. Not only that, but because of Vaapad, he was very familiar with the dark side. When Palpatine attacked he probably used the dark energy of his own to send or deflect the stunning wave of force that worked so well on the others.
4) So who really "won" the duel?
Who knows. It's possible that Palpatine really set the whole thing up banking on the fact that Anakin would save him, effectively betraying the Jedi order, sealing his fate forever. It's possible that Mace really defeated him and it was just sheer luck that Anakin sensed his trouble and came running. We know that Mace and Yoda fight up and up, and that Yoda could not defeat Palpatine.
Hope this adds to the pot.
All of the characters were very familiar with the dark side. The "dark side" resided within all of them. Many of them - with an exception or two - were merely too blind to realize this. There was nothing unique about Mace's "dark side".
Mace used "the dark side" to defend himself against Palpatine? Did Obi-Wan do the same during his duels with Maul and Anakin?
1) All three Jedi were Council members in the movie. I believe EU sources (the novelization?) state that they were specifically chosen for the task based on their combat skills.
Other than that, your points are fine.
Oh yeah, welcome to the boards. Don't worry about the necro, it's cool.
My understanding of Vaapad was that it did not require actually delving into the Dark Side, just channeling enough aggression that the user had to be careful not to cross that line. Only Mace and Depa Billaba knew how to do it because most people couldn't handle the extraordinary level of emotional control it required.
But yeah, the Jedi who went after Palpatine were chosen to do so due to their combat expertise.
The scream I thought was just Palpatine going bats. I didn't think it was purposeful.
The "who won the duel?" has been debated a lot. I think Mace would have eventually killed Palpatine if Anakin hadn't shown up but I also think that Palpatine was in drama-king mode for Anakin's sake right before Anakin cut off Mace's hand.
Might not go all the way in - but it definitely skims the edge, so to speak:
According to the RoTS novel, Vaapad requires one to: "enjoy the fight, to give oneself over to the thrill of battle, the rush of winning" and it's a "path that leads through the penumbra of the dark side".
A good shout(pardon the pun) but let's remember these are experienced Jedi's he's going up against. Perhaps if he used force lightning and then jumped towards them or something it might have be a little more plausible.
Force Scream also sucked in KOTOR for me.
If anything, Why not just have Mace Windu and just one other Jedi go to confront Palpatine?
Pretty much describes most of the Jedi. You should the expressions on their faces, when they are in the middle of combat. And honestly . . . I see nothing wrong with Vaapad. A person cannot escape his or her dark side. It's part of that person's nature. And it's also a matter of whether that person can learn to control it . . . or allow it to control him or her. Sometimes, going the other way in extreme can also be just as bad.
In The Jedi Path - there's a note in the section on lightsaber styles, that the reason Juyo was so restricted, was that so many Jedi users of it ended up going over to the dark side.
Why do these authors and sometimes, Lucas, insist upon portraying morality in such a simple-minded manner?
Yep. And if you mute the movie and listen to Revolution 9 while watching you will either become a Sith Lord or a follower of Charles Manson.