PT Force Scream: How Palpatine tooled the posse

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Vialco, Dec 15, 2012.

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  1. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Possibly because of the whole "Anger, fear, aggression, the dark side are they" thing as early as TESB.

    And Vaapad is consistently portrayed as the most emotion-heavy, most "aggressive" lightsaber style: The Way of the Vornskr, the Ferocity Form.

    To the Jedi, certain emotions are extremely dangerous, and you need a very strong will to use them, in a fight, without being put at risk of corruption by them.

    That's why Mace is worried in the Clone Wars comics, when he finds out his student - Sora Bulq - has been teaching Vaapad moves to another Jedi without Mace's knowledge.
    Last edited by Iron_lord, Feb 24, 2014
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  2. akrunner Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2012
    I thought the scene was supposed to be in slow motion when I first saw it, which is why Palpatine was able to leap,spin at the Jedi taking them by surprise so easily.
  3. Beezer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 5, 2013
    star 4
    My thoughts are that the scene would have worked better if it was just Mace Windu. By having Palpatine so easily dispatch of 3 Jedi Masters really makes the Jedi look obscenely weak.
  4. purplerain Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 14, 2013
    star 4
    The idea that Palpatine's roar had the power to freeze the the four Jedi is hilarious but logical.
  5. DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2002
    star 4
    I like the scare tactic, but maybe this is where Lucas should have had Palpatine shift to his decrepit appearance to reveal what he really looked, which would have also explained why he so easily struck fear in his opponents.
    Last edited by DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR, Apr 6, 2014
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  6. Vialco Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2007
    star 4
    I like to think that the scream has laden with Palpatine's full Dark Side power and Kolar, Tiin and Fisto had never faced the Dark Side like that before. It's a testament to Mace and to lesser extent, Fisto's power that they were able to shake off the effects the fastest and managed to actually fight Palpatine.
  7. DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2002
    star 4
    That's how I see it, too. I just wish there was a little more added to it, though.
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  8. Anakin Solo Revanchist Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 9, 2011
    star 4
    If the Force Scream is an actual dark side Force ability, then I say it works perfectly with what is seen in film, and justifies why top Jedi Council swordfighters were skewered in seconds, appearing to simply stand by.
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  9. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
  10. Mr. K Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 1999
    star 5
    They seemed more confused than afraid...except for Mace who made a hasty retreat. He literally runs out of the room. As for the others, they seem completely lost- the first two that go down aren't even looking at Palps- they're looking around the room like they're in a daze! I've read somewhere (a visual guide or some such) that Mace practices a form of lightsaber combat that skirts dangerously close to the dark side....maybe that's why he wasn't as affected as the others clearly were. I like the Force Scream theory...seems like that's the dealio to me.

    Last edited by Mr. K, Apr 7, 2014
  11. Darth Dominikkus Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 5, 2013
    star 3
    I'll be honest: I'll probably steal this idea and give you credit whenever this topic comes up in conversation with one of my pals. I love this idea. I have never put that scream into consideration, I always thought it was just his way of being somewhat intimidating, which now makes sense.

    I really appreciate this post. Thank you.
  12. SlashMan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2012
    star 3
    Yeah, "confused" was what I got out of it, too. We get a great shot of Mace readying his weapon, but then we cut to the other Jedi, and they're just looking around. I've said it before, but I thought one thing that may have improved the scene is actual stuntmen in the roles of the Jedi; it's really just extras in costume here, and it kinda shows (even Kit seems a bit clunky under the prosthetics). The other half was slowing down the scene to accommodate for Ian McDiarmid.

    Also, changing the sequence could have helped. If Sidious quickly drew his lightsaber right before jumping, and ignited it in midair, that could've sold the "surprise" better.
  13. DarthWilliams Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 29, 2008
    star 4
    Interesting theory. I just rewatched TPM last week and thought it was odd how the other Jedi go down pretty immediately.
  14. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    It's in ROTS, not TPM.
  15. The_Riddler Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2013
    star 3
    "force scream yep that's the reason why the Jedi were crap"

    come on guys :p lets be real here.

    The reason why it was crap was because the scene had to be redone multiple times, first because Anakin was original there, then because Gillard and Lucas had different ideas how the scene should be shot.

    But if force scream works for you, good...I guess, but it's just wild idea that holds no water in my opinion.

    It was just rushed choreography, there is no other reason.
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  16. Cyreides Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 19, 2014
    star 1
    I like the Force Scream idea a bit, but I don't think that's what happened. The scene was just rushed. I'll take it though, since it's still better choreography than anything in the OT.
  17. Master Jedi Macen Arren Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 16, 2013
    star 1
    As I've said before it was a poor scene because of all the cutting and redoes it had had. It's weird because as far as I'm concerned it was probably the one time they should have used force lightning but didn't.
  18. DARTHLINK Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 24, 2005
    star 3
    This is Star Wars, not The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim. :p

    Though now it's giving me an idea of Palpatine's song to the Skyrim tune:

    Palpatine, Palpatine
    Sith Lord Palpatine!
    For the Power, for the Passion!
    For the Daaaaark Side!
    For the unbridled Anger,
    And the unleashing of Blades,
    Palpatine, Palpatine
    The Miiiiighty Sith Loord-RAH!
  19. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
  20. MrCody Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 4, 2013
    star 1
    Mace was never scared!
  21. DRush76 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2008
    star 4

    The idea that a certain form of combat skirts "dangerously close to the dark side" does not hack it with me. It smacks of third-grade morality. Any form of combat will require aggressiveness and anger on the combatant's part. It's a matter of whether one can control it or not. Why so many STAR WARS fans want to believe that Mace was a potential Sith is beyond me. I had no idea that he was that unpopular with the franchise's fans. Would it have helped if he had also appeared in the OT? And honestly, of the three main Jedi Masters in this story, Obi-Wan has always struck me as the most aggressive. And even he knows how to keep his aggression and anger under control . . . sometimes.


    If you had just pointed out that Lucas and Gillard had different ideas about that particular scene, I could have bought this explanation. As far as I'm concerned, Anakin's presence at that moment was irrelevant.
    Last edited by DRush76, Apr 23, 2014
  22. markdeez Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 27, 2005
    star 3
    That force scream and tornado spin move had me shook, in the theater in 2005!
  23. Kato Sai Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 27, 2014
    star 4
    You are correct Mr. K. Mace Windu uses Juyo/Vaapad form. It is one of the more aggressive forms and is typically used by the Sith.
  24. Marco1907 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2013
    star 2
    Agree especially his spinning move and force scream made the trick more like surprise factor, after the death of Tiin and Kolar, Fisto manage to deflect 3 attack but Sidious' lightsaber mastery was too much for him.
  25. jc1138 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 16, 2004
    star 1
    Agree! I think confusion/paralysis works better than being scared, but overall good theory!
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