CT Force telekinesis

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by Tornado Wrangler, Apr 25, 2013.

  1. Tornado Wrangler Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 22, 2013
    star 1
    I just realized a few years ago that the force wasn't used to move objects in ANH. There was Vader doing the force-choke, Obi-Wan using mind-control and sensing death, and Luke predicting the remote's laser blasts and targeting his weapons. The first time it was explicitly shown moving an object was Luke reaching for his lightsaber while hanging upside down in the cave in ESB.

    For those of you that experienced ESB for the first time in theaters, was this a shocking, holy-crap moment? Did Lucas even have the idea of the force being used for telekinesis during ANH or was it a new idea for the sequels?

    And an in-universe question, how did Luke know the force could do that?


    Update: Sorry, I just realized I should have asked this in the "Ask Questions here" thread. I'll be sure to do that next time.
    Last edited by Tornado Wrangler, Apr 25, 2013
  2. VadersLaMent Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 3, 2002
    star 9
    I do recall having to ask how Luke did that and my Dad said it was the Force. I am not sure what I thought the Force was in ANH, I was 6.
  3. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 7
    In Splinter of the Mind's Eye (Published before ESB) he and Vader both use it- though his first use of it is instinctive, and he's not sure it really happened.

    Once Vader starts using it against him- he knows for sure, and responds.
  4. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    I'd say that choking someone by use of the Force is telekinesis. There are those who would argue that it's a mind trick, but I've never been of that belief.





    - It's impossible to locate the ship.
    - I find your lack of faith disturbing.

    /LM
  5. Chainmail_Jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 26, 2013
    star 2
    It is painfully obvious that Lucas had no pre-conceived grand vision for star wars, and it is clear that he made it up as we went. He can claim he did, and the "official" record is that he did. OJ can claim he is not guilty, and the official record is that he is not guilty. He got lucky with the first three films he made in the franchise, less so with the latter three.

    And yes, I was amazed. TESB was a movie full of amazement and wonderfully enjoyable shock for me.
    Last edited by Chainmail_Jedi, Apr 26, 2013
  6. SlashMan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2012
    star 3
    I've never really thought about that before. Seeing the different abilities of the Force have really been exciting as the movies went on (adding up to Force Lightning at the climax of Jedi).

    Don't hate on me for this, but a potential in-universe explanation is midi-chlorians. I mean, Qui-Gon's explanation lines up perfectly; when one focuses their mind they can better communicate with the Force. By that, it seems plausible that Luke could reach out using the Force out of instinct.
    Arawn_Fenn likes this.
  7. Tornado Wrangler Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 22, 2013
    star 1
    Once you know the force can be used for telekinesis, the force choke is obviously so. But if that's the only example shown, then it's not enough to assume that the force can be used to move objects.
  8. Tornado Wrangler Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 22, 2013
    star 1

    Could work as a in-universe explanation. He stopped struggling, quieted his mind, and "heard" something tell him to reach for the lightsaber. It was the will of the force that he survive, so it would be something the midi-chlorians would communicate.
  9. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    Sure it is. Physically choking someone means physically touching and moving parts of their body.





    - If you will not turn to the dark side, then perhaps she will!
    - Let her go, Anakin!

    /LM
  10. Tornado Wrangler Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 22, 2013
    star 1
    All we really saw was that the guy (used to know his name, but i don't anymore), couldn't breath. There wasn't a special effect to show his neck being compressed or squeezed. The actor just held his breath and pulled at his collar. Since we know that the force can be used for telekinesis, it seems obvious that that's what's going on. But if you didn't know, then I just don't think it would be one's first assumption.

    It seems like if the force was initially intended to be used for telekinesis, now its most recognizable use in popular culture, Ben or Vader would have actually moved an object with it at some point in the movie.
    Last edited by Tornado Wrangler, Apr 28, 2013
    Chainmail_Jedi likes this.
  11. Granger Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 1
    I was a very little kid when I saw ESB in the theater and yes, I was shocked that he was able to draw his lightsaber to him with the force. Not knowing he could do that added a lot of tension to that scene and seeing him do it established in my little kid mind that he had grown more powerful since the end of the first movie.

    Another bit from ANH that might be considered a hint at this kind of ability is when Obi Wan points and it causes a tapping sound across the room that distracts the stormtroopers guarding the power station for the shield generator.
    Last edited by Granger, Apr 29, 2013
  12. The Supreme Chancellor Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 4
    @Lars_Muul is right. In ANH the Force choke shows that the Force can be used to impose force on physical objects including people. I've never even heard of the theory that Force choke is a mind trick, and it seems impossible because:

    1. Padme gets Force choked by Anakin. Throughout the PT she is depicted as a an intelligent and strong willed woman
    2. Breathing is a basic sentient instinct. One would have to be INCREDIBLY weak minded for someone to convince them they don't need air to live.
  13. Tornado Wrangler Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 22, 2013
    star 1
    I agree. The mind-trick thing wasn't my idea. I'm just saying if you only look at ANH alone, the force isn't used to move objects. During Vader's force choke, we don't see objects move. WE KNOW that's what's happening now, but at the time did people think that?

    The point of my post was really to ask those that are old enough to have seen ANH before the other movies came out, if it was known that the force telekinesis existed before Luke used it to move the lightsaber.
  14. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 7
    It appeared in the EU before ESB. And Lucas may have been rather involved with that particular source (Splinter of the Mind's Eye) which was supposed to have been scripted as a low-budget sequel to Star Wars, in case it wasn't a big success.
  15. Doctor Cornelius Evazan Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2013
    I don't think the audience in general thought that since Vader was able to choke someone he should be able to move objects, maybe some did.

    Why didn't Ben just use it to shut down the reactor?
  16. I Are The Internets Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 7
    He forgot?
  17. The Supreme Chancellor Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 4
    During Vaders Force choke we see Vader looking at the Moff while he chokes, then Tarkin tells Vader to release him. I don't know how else someone could interpret the scene. He certainly wasn't choking on blue milk.
  18. Tornado Wrangler Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 22, 2013
    star 1
    I don't know how else someone could interpret the scene either. That's why I'm asking for those that remember only having seen ANH to share what force abilities they thought existed before ESB was released. So far Chainmain_Jedi is the only one that has said he fits those criteria and he says it was surprising to see the force used to move objects.

    Again, most of use are applying hindsight to interpret the scene.
  19. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    There's always the comic adaptation.
  20. Tornado Wrangler Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 22, 2013
    star 1
    I'm not familiar with it. Was there mention of telekinesis in the comic or novel adaptations? I read the novel long ago and don't remember.
  21. Placeholder Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2013
    star 4
    I've always looked at it as just a form of telekinesis
  22. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    It's nice to see that I'm not alone on this :)

    @Tornado Wrangler
    My first assumption was that Vader used the Force to telekinetically choke Motti. The same goes for the scene that Granger mentioned, where Obi-Wan distracts the two guards. It's always been obvious to me that he telekinetically taps a wall behind them.
    It's a simpler and more direct interpretation than assuming that they plant illusions of being choked and hearing things in their minds - although I'm sure that that would be possible, too (and it is a cool idea).

    As for Obi-Wan not using the Force to turn the tractor beam off, I just think he didn't want to use more Force than necessary [face_tee_hee]).





    - The Force can have a strong influence on the weak minded.
    - Mind tricks don't-a work on me - only money!

    /LM
  23. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    A huge metal-clad hand gestured slightly, and one of the filled cups on the table drifted responsively into it.
  24. Placeholder Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2013
    star 4
    I always thought he used the force to throw a small object that direction. Like, just a little piece of something on the floor.
    Last edited by Captain Tom Coughlin, May 1, 2013
  25. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    Aha! Well, that is a possibility, too :)





    - That's not true! That's impossible!!
    - Anything is possible, Padmé, listen to me.

    /LM