Force Unleashed 3, yes or no?

Discussion in 'Games' started by QuiWanKenJin, Apr 25, 2011.

  1. Darth-Vassago Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2004
    star 5
    Just a quick example, Sidious in Episode III stating "Vader will be more powerful than both of us!" ... "Oh wait, except Galen Marek. He'll be more powerful than all three of us, all good though." ... "And Revan, remember him from 4000 years ago? He was more powerful than all three of us, too. Again, all good though."

    Yeah.
  2. Tunsieon Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 4, 2011
    Just another reason to hate Episode III. The only good thing about that was when Darth Vader killed a whole bunch of younglings.

    But I seriously hope they don't make another. I'm not ready to have my heart broken a second time.
  3. Tunsieon Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 4, 2011
    But I seriously hope they don't make another. I'm not ready to have my heart broken a second time.

    EDIT: Sorry about the double post, didn't mean to do that. Does anybody know how to get rid of a post?
  4. Jedi_Matt Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 11, 2002
    star 4
    When is Revan defined as being more powerful than Palpatine and Vader?

    Vader WOULD have been more powerful than anyone but his lava dip and the loss of his arms and legs put paid to that. If you lose limbs / are kept alive by a suit that is going to seriously hamper your strength in the Force. Luke Skywalker (as he is now, in the Fate of the Jedi series) would take out Palpatine / Vader (personal connection aside) / Galen Marek. Luke Skywalker became the powerful Jedi that Vader could have been had he not been stuck in the suit.
  5. Darth-Vassago Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2004
    star 5
    Revan is hailed as the strongest Jedi, etc.

    Another way the games (TFU in particular) contradicts established canon, Galen Marek himself. Yoga says in Episode 1 "Always two there are, no more, no less." And suddenly there are 3, with Palpatine, Vader and Starkiller. "Secret" or not, this goes against canon.

    But who cares, TFU stomped all over canon anyways.
  6. MasterDillon Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 28, 2010
    star 2
    Do not forget that in Expanded Universe which is considered canon it is not unusual for Sith Lords to train secret apprentices without their Masters knowing. Darth Sideous did it with Darth Maul even when he was the apprentice to Darth Plaugise, Count Dooku did it with Asajj Ventress, and Savage Opress hoping to get rid of Sideous, so it doesn't surprise me that Vader would do it especially since he did do it before TFU and TFU II was even realeased. Also in the times of the Old Sith Wars it was extremely common to train secret apprentices and use them to overthrow their superiors. This was quite common in the New Sith Wars. So I see how this fails to go agaisnt canon since Geroege Lucas is extremely involved in the Clone Wars series which one of the examples comes from. Besides the statement Yoda makes refers to the Order of Two established by Darth Bane which compared to the entire history of the Sith Order a defined in Canon is shorter then any of the Empires, Orders, etc. established before, and ahead of Darth Banes time.
  7. Darth-Vassago Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2004
    star 5
    I'm glad you're here to tell us these things. /solo

    :rolleyes:

    All the retcons make me laugh. The mere mention of Savage Opress makes me disregard everything you said. Oh, Darth Maul was a "Nightbrother" on Dathomir, not a Zabrak from Iridonia...are you kidding me? And suddenly Maul was Palpatine's secret apprentice. Where is that even mentioned, besides Wookiepedia. Hah, okay.
  8. Jedi_Matt Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 11, 2002
    star 4
    Again, where is Revan hailed as the strongest Jedi?

    Have you read Jedi vs Sith?

    Have you read anything from the Legacy series?

    Multiple Sith...

    got to go to work

  9. Darth-Vassago Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2004
    star 5
    Have you played KotOR or KotOR II? Revan is touted as the strongest Jedi.
    Legacy is beyond ROTJ, I generally dislike that time period as it's gotten a bit ridiculous. Read the first run, not really good. At all. Plus all the post-ROTJ EU has nothing to do with my complaint of the "secret apprentice", going against the rule of two, etc. Like I said, though...it was obvious the game didn't respect established canon.
    Jedi vs Sith? Sure I've read it, what's the relevance?

    Speaking of all the retcons above, funny that Asajj is no longer a Rattataki, and is now a Nightsister. Joke. Anyway...

    Funny that you mentioned...

    What does the suit, or losing limbs have to do with anything? Yoda saying "Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter," pretty much debunks that theory of "Anakin would have been so much more if he didn't get pwn'd by Obi-Wan."
  10. Jedi_Matt Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 11, 2002
    star 4
    Jedi Vs Sith - Lord Kaan's Brotherhood of Darkness? More than two Sith there I think?

    Have you read any of the Legacy of the Force series, specifically Alema Rar finding, again, multiple Sith in hiding? Post RotJ it may be, but it's still canon and means just as much as anything prior

    Legacy comic series - thousands of Sith

    Darth Bane Trilogy - The series featuring the guy who established the rule of two. Doesn't Zannah conscript Cognus prior to killing Bane? Again, that's 3, one more than two. The rule of two Yoda was speaking of only started 1,000 years before he said those words, and the Sith have existed slightly longer than that.

    Finally - Vader tried to recruit Luke in ESB, where was the rule of two there?


    Touted as the strongest ever Jedi, when? In KOTOR? What, from the point of view of someone who was alive 4,000 years before the Skywalkers? Doesn't that speak for itself? It's like me saying the Empire State Building is the tallest building in the world because at one point in time it was.

    So living in pain, unable to breathe for yourself except under special circumstances wouldn't affect your performance? Out of the mouth of George Lucas himself, Luke is what Anakin could have been if it weren't for the suit. See sources below for the effect of cybernetic limbs on Force strength...

  11. Jedi_Matt Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 11, 2002
    star 4
    Regarding what Yoda said about the Sith, the rule of two began when the Sith went into hiding and were presumed to be destroyed, so how the Jedi Council know about this anyway is yet to be resolved as far as I know.

    Once Palpatine took control of the galaxy he got a bit more comfortable and did what he liked really, he had the Force Sensitive Emperor's Hands, the Inquisitors, the Prophets of the Dark Side, Joruus C'Baoth... sure they aren't Sith but I'm sure at least one of them would have been reasonable Sith material if required.
  12. Darth-Vassago Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2004
    star 5
    He was trying to recruit Luke to overthrow the Emperor. After this, he'd be trained I would assume. Once that happened, there would be two Sith.
    My problem with Starkiller (and one of my problems with the game in general) is that he's a full fledged Sith/wannabe Jedi and Vader is training him. As an apprentice. The Emperor knew and had him "killed". I know why the Rule of Two exists, I get that it's a power/control thing, I'm not a n00b Star Wars fan. My problem is that there is a Rule of Two in established canon and TFU trounces all over it, as well as many other things.

    Also, quoting Lucas is such a bad idea. The guy flip-flops on everything so much. Before the PT came out he stated the Lightsabers are heavy, like Excalibur and the movements are slow and plain. Now, we have people whipping them around like NERF bats, two and four at a time. Before the prequels came out, Luke beat Vader because he was flat out stronger, not because "he was more machine and at a disadvantage." So, the Force can't flow through machines. If that's the case, then how did Anakin/Luke call their lightsabers to their hands when they both had mechanical hands? See what I'm saying...

    I'll quote Yoda again "Always with you what cannot be done." He teaches Luke, who you are touting as the strongest Jedi (currently in the post-ROTJ GFFA) "Life creates it, makes it grow. It's energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. You mus feel the Force around you. Here, between you, me, the tree, the rock, everywhere. Yes, even between the land and the ship." Clearly the teaching of Yoda, the most powerful Jedi of the last (nearly) 900 years say that the Force is limited by nothing but the users own will and mind power. Luke states "I don't--I don't believe it," and Yoda replies in turn "That is why you fail."

    As for Anakin living in agony and pain in the suit, one would believe that would fuel his powers. What better circumstance to fuel that rage? The Sith and the Dark Side draws from pain, emotion, etc. Being in constant pain should be a huge advantage, no?
  13. MasterDillon Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 28, 2010
    star 2
    Your ignorance astounds me. How much do you actually know about Star Wars besides the stuff that actually intrests you? Have you ever read the books, and comics dedicated to Darth Maul? Wookiepedia also has many sources to prove the information they are providing. Mabe you should bother to look up all the facts not just the ones that bore you. You have the right to disagree with this whole secret apprentice thing but your facts aren't merit enough try researching more and I'm sure you'll find the answer.;)
  14. Jedi_Matt Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 11, 2002
    star 4
    You don't get it do you? What a character says is point of view, what the people who control the universe say is fact until they contradict it. Don't like it? Tough.

    Rule of two hasn't existed that long in the Star Wars galaxy, TFU didn't break canon here, if you read my post above you would know that.

    You are also missing the fact that Starkiller was never a Sith, he isn't a 'Darth'. He's as much a Sith as Mara Jade and Maarek Stele! These are people who were trained in the dark side of the Force before TFU was even a concept.

    Luke beat Vader because he drew on the dark side following the Emperor's goading and Vader's heart wasn't in the battle.

    If you just want to cherry pick your own personal canon then fine, but don't moan when I give you unequivecal proof that hasn't been contradicted but in fact has been further supported in-universe.
  15. Magellan_the_Cat Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 21, 2003
    star 4
    If Lucas can Cherry-pick which rules he wants to follow and when...

    Fact is, the movies are inconsistent as hell.
    Especially the prequels.

    West End Games kept the cannon somewhat unified for a while, but when the Prequels came out, and Wizards of the Coast tried to make sense of Yoda throwing around Lightning Bolts (previously strictly a Dark Side power) in AotC, they had to change the cannon, so all the novels followed the altered cannon, and altered it further. Then it got ret-conned again when RotS came out... (wait, Anakin is the first council member not to be a jedi master? But what about the TPM materials that said Ki-Adi Mundi was the only jedi knight on the council? What about the first TPM "Storybook", which had a totally different picture of Bail Organa? Jedi aren't allowed attachments, except for Ki-Adi Mundi, who is allowed to have a family because his species is endangered? What?)

    So yeah, pick and choose is the only way to keep some sense of sanity.
    Personally, I ignore anything written by Kevin J Anderson, and everything set after the Specter of the Past/Vision of the Future. (Actually, I ignore those too, even though Zahn did a great job of ridiculing some of the bigger plot flaws and tropes used by other authors.) X-Wing novels were good. Han Solo trilogies were good. Lando trilogy was dumb. Read 3 prequel novels and hated them.

    So yeah, each character has a different point of view (but the universe mechanics themselves SHOULD be consistent. And each person watching/reading is going to have a different POV about which character's dialog is more correct/fits better.

    I love one not by RedLetterMedia in the ripping on the prequels.
    George Lucas in an interview in 1978. "Special Effects are a tool to help tell a story. If you had a movie that was just special effects, it would probably be a boring movie."
    Cut to producer in 1999 or 2000 "Every scene is just laden with Special Effects."
    Red Letter Media. "Wait, YOU said that?"
    Replays the quotes a couple of times.
  16. Darth-Vassago Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2004
    star 5
    [Edit] Well said, Magellan_The_Cat.

    [Edit Further edits for markup.

    Is it really, now? Unless otherwise proven false. What Yoda said was never proven false, it led to Luke becoming the most powerful Jedi in the GFFA post ROTJ.

    This, I'm aware of. There was no "rule of two" for a very long time. TFU did break canon because Galen was Vader's apprentice.

    Aware of the Emperor's Hand, Assassins, etc. Also aware that Starkiller was a wannabe Jedi and Sith. Whether he had a "Darth" name of not, he was still Vader's apprentice and thus, breaks the rule of two.

    Really? Was this explicitly stated in the film? Maybe that's a point of view.

    Still waiting for this unequivocal proof. I guess you should take your own advice.
  17. Darth-Vassago Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2004
    star 5
    Okay, what was supposed to be an edit turned into a double post. Whatever.
  18. Magellan_the_Cat Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 21, 2003
    star 4
    That's an interesting interpretation. I don't agree with it, but it is food for thought.
    I don't think Vader wanted to kill Luke--rather like in ESB, he was trying to capture and subdue him. OK, in ESB I think he was also testing to see what Luke had learned, so he played around a lot (one-handed fighting, throwing stuff around), until Luke managed to glance a blow off Vader's armor--then the gloves were off, two-handed swing, and bye-bye hand. In RotJ, Vader I see Vader spending his energy trying to fight being The Emperor's puppet. Not sure if that's right or not. Maybe he was trying to goad Luke to the Dark Side as Vader thought that would be the only way Luke would be powerful enough to beat Palpy.

    A friend of mine suggested that Admiral Ozzel wasn't incompetent, but rather a rebel spy trying to deliberately warn the rebels that the Empire was coming. Interesting idea, but I don't think so, because we have nothing anywhere to support it. Whereas we have a lot of evidence that promotion by politics rather than competence happens within the Imperial Navy.

    One of Zahn's best bits from the SotP/VotF was Mara Jade chewing out Luke. "Your niece and nephews have been kidnapped or lost HOW Many Times? When were you planning on getting them some decent security?" "I know. I was being dumb."
    "Too bad we don't have a sith lord here to kill so he can explode and blow out this inconveniently placed bulkheat."
  19. akpatrick Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2011
    I say yes, if only to tie up the loose ends of the story. With the book and comic tfu2 acually had a good story. But I always veiwed tfu2 as being incomplete because kit is obvious a third installment was intended so that also optimistically colored my judgment of the game.
  20. aWOLtrooper Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 14, 2011
    I say no, just because game companies have been making sequels worse and worse lately; look at Iron Man 2, Kane & Lynch 2, Fable 2, Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter 2, HAWX 2...

    They only leave things open so they can make another cash cow and get a quick buck. The TFU games were awful, personally, and I'm sick of being fed constantly worse games. I say, for the sake of gaming AND saving LA from another embarrassing game, [Do I need to mention the "Action" patch for SWG?] They should kill it, and leave the cliffhanger.
  21. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6
    I see that you are the first to have mastered the art of flow-walking in our galaxy.
    Please, tell us how it all ends.

    Me an Zor are dying to know.
    :p
  22. vong333 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2003
    star 4
    I would like a third game to at least finish the series. I hate having things open ended like this especially the way its part of the EU canon. No matter what, starkiller has to die or disappear to another area.

    The issue above has been debated till the end of time. I understand the Vanity Fair article and the comment in the empire strikes back, but my question is, what do we mean as powerful? What did we see in any of the six movies by either the jedi or sith that makes them powerful? Can they fly in the air? Can one of them get a star destroyer to crash on the ground? Did Luke ever use the force to bring down an AT-AT? Heck even if half trained, by ROTS he could have single handedly downed half the Imperial Ground troops.

    Problem with Starkiller, he can stop missles by himself and re-direct them back to the AT-ST, he can fall super distances and not have a scratch when in the AOTC novel Obi-Wan knew that if he when he was free falling after that droid was shot by that bounty hunter in Coruscant, he couldn't stop his fall. It was over, yet Starkiller, pratically did it several times in TFU 2. Force pushing his way to the ground, when he escaped Kamino, when he was tryng to reach Kota and that falling beast, and then when he was falling back down in the planet (Kamino again). Maybe we can attribute this to video game mechanics, but the Emperor never levitated in the air and punched force puches at rebel soilders. Nor did he push a vessel out the way like in TFU 2.

    That is my problem with this powerful stuff. Their ain't anything super, no flying, no cracking AT-ST like butter, or incinerating stormtroopers. We just don't see the movie characters do this kind of stuff.
  23. Magellan_the_Cat Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 21, 2003
    star 4
    Oh, according to one of my friends who is an author (published, by Simon&Schuster as well as others--not just self-published) and she wanted to write a Star Wars book and was sorting through all the stuff out there. Anyway, one of her contacts told her that Lucas was sorting through the books and novels and cherry picking what was and wasn't cannon.
    From PUBLISHED BOOKS.
    George Lucas is going through the Published Star Wars Books, and deciding what is and isn't cannon.

    So if Lucas can go back, cherry pick what he likes, and carte-blanche discard/ignore the rest, so can we.
    And if we disagree, well, Lucas has the $, but he has been wrong so many times before, so there is no reason why our individual opinions aren't any less valid or important than his.

    It is one thing to block something before it is printed, but this is just more ret-con crap.
  24. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6
    Lucas cannot escape the truth...

    The Star Wars Holiday Special, happened.
    He's been cherry-picking since the day he disowned: Christmas on Kashyyyk.

  25. Magellan_the_Cat Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 21, 2003
    star 4
    It happened, and he allowed it to happen.