Force User PCs and move object obsessions

Discussion in 'Games: RPG & Miniatures' started by Yuul_Shamar, Jan 24, 2006.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Yuul_Shamar Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2004
    star 4
    When most of my players play jedi or force adepts they tend to get obsessed with move object
    and they most of them will not only max it out but spend feats on both skill emphasis(move object) and kinetic mastery (it's in the heroes guide) to get a misc bonus of +5!
    and some of them usually put their highest score in intelligence(usually an 18)just to get the +4 modifier! so by the time they're at third level they have a skill bonus of +15!
    suggestions please.
    does anyone else have a simliar problem?
  2. Neo-Paladin Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2004
    star 4
    I could only suggest putting them in a lot of instances where their Telek. won't avail them.

    Aside from that, are you making them justify their advancement? Kinetic mastery sounds pretty buff, something that would take awhile to learn. Who are they learning it from? There can't be that many masters of that discipline around. How do you show such a master that he should pass on his knowledge? It could be an RP opportunity.
  3. FlareStorm Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 13, 2000
    star 6
    be very stick about giving them DSPs when they use it against a living being
  4. POL_ETRAUD Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jan 23, 2006
    plus using it as an attack is a full round action, so you could exploit that by having them have to do things that give up actions (like extending their deflect to defend a helpless person).

    OR start throwing numbers at them. They can TK someone to oblivion, but ten people?

    You could also look up some "jedi killing" tactics online. I would say that a jedi killer with rudimentary knowledge of jedi skills could have a blaster rifle that explodes on a two second timer if it is out of a short range emmitter on the hunter. SO if a jedi pulls his blaster out of his hands and into theirs, it explodes.

    Then there is the whole mirror job. Send someone who is just as skilled in TK against them.

    There is also the "other skills" aspect. Make them have to use other skills to advance the story (like empathy to try and improve a diplomacy roll, or enhance senses to try and locate something, or see force to avoid a trap).
  5. Koohii Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2003
    star 5
    I had a recuring bounty hunter who had a thermal detonator with a cyborg dead-man switch. 2-12 rounds after she died, the TD in her backpack would explode. There's more to her story than that, but it was fun to catch the people trying to loot her body in a 10d6 blast (that's what they get for stealing from corpses--show the dead some respect).

    I've also had villains with lightsabers build internal activation switches that required TK to activate. Kept other people from being able to use them--you had to know where the switch was and be able to TK. No non-force user would be able to do anything with it. (This was in a "Classic" campaign where Jedi & Lightsabers were extremely rare).
  6. Jedi_Matt Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 11, 2002
    star 4
    throw them into the unknown regions, send them up against the empire of the hand, ysalamiri on their backs, boom

    there was this game i was in, and one of the settings was a spacestation that was quite dark, casinos, probably ladies of the night, and a jedi was sent their to arrest a guy and basically... ysalamiri were hidden in the walls, and the jedi got sliced down, taken hostage and tortured.

    if they're facing battledroids, then unleash a new model, where the blasters are built in, like SBD's, made of a denser material, magnetic feet, etc
  7. Gry Sarth Ex 2x Banhammer Wielding Besalisk Mod

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 1999
    star 5
    I really think the best way to deal with this kind of things is put the PCs time again on situations that could be handled fairly easily if they had some skill diversification, while their uber-TK will get them nothing. Show them in game that a terribly unbalanced character will fail miserably in missions a weaker but more well-rounded character would succeed. Munchkinizing a single form of attack should prove useful only in few situations. All in all, it should be a bad strategy.
  8. Yuul_Shamar Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2004
    star 4
    Thanks for the tips.
    But one more thing, what do i do when they use it to alter their surroundings like when i had them in a stone structure/temple and they try to make new exits using move object to force things like stone walls down?


    and has anyone here looked at the new force stuff they added when they introduced the heroes guide a while back? I know it doubles vitality cost but they use it and then use heal self/another to get most of back.
  9. Rogue_Thunder FanForce CR, Edmonton, Alberta, Canada

    Chapter Rep
    Member Since:
    Jan 7, 2003
    star 6
    They should only be able to use Heal Self or Heal Another once. If they're going to be overly-using the power, for example bringing down stone walls when they're in a temple, then simply slap them down with the consequences of over-using the Force. When they knock a wall down, then it was a supporting wall, so it brings down part of the structure with it. The falling debris can either hit them (and do some pretty severe damage if they don't make their Ref save), or it can damage their objective (say a holocron that they were after, or a hostage). Show them that such overusage of the Force (which is against the Jedi philosophy in the first place) has consequences.

    Also, to be a really mean GM, if they use the variant rules in the Heroe's Guide (the ones that cost mucho vitality) then have the bad guys suddenly ambush them. They won't have time to heal, and they'll be caught at a disadvantage. [face_devil] ;)
  10. Koohii Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2003
    star 5
    And of course, do unto others...

    "You're walking down the street. Your lightsaber suddenly turns on. Make a reflex save or take full damage!"

  11. Jedi_Winter_Knight Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 30, 2005
    I agree, if they start knocking down walls i would rule perhaps part of other free standing structures, and the cieling comes down and that could do serious damage to them or worse.

    My suggestion is a house rule i implemented in my game that they had to learn Control and Sense (either order) before they could take Alter. The most poweful offenseive force powers come from the Alter feat. So if they can not take alter until last, 4th level. That will slow thier Move Object progression very much. The in game reason is since that feat represents a lot of "offense" the Jedi who is training them teaches them that last as they should be at a point where they are ready to take on more responsiblity with taking on something that gives them such power. Hence its the last force feat they learn.
  12. Nktalloth Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 5, 2005
    star 1
    Yeah, usually the application of logic to a situation helps. If a PC tries to knock down walls, having other, unexpected, parts of the building either collapse or open up.

    i.e.: Okay, the wall collapses. However, beyond the smoke and debris you can see 30 odd Stormtroopers staring straight at you through the hole...

    Also, alter the feat. Make it so that it is a seperate feat to be able to fling objcts at a moments notice, and that it normally requires concentration to use.

    The concentration thing works for heal self as well...
  13. dp4m Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2001
    star 9
    Yep, logic goes a long way.

    My regular GM is a science major, so thermal detonators in enclosed hallways compress the explosion laterally along the hallway and have a much larger blast radius in one direction.

    Ouch.
  14. dizfactor Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 2002
    star 5
    My suggestion is a house rule i implemented in my game that they had to learn Control and Sense (either order) before they could take Alter. The most poweful offenseive force powers come from the Alter feat. So if they can not take alter until last, 4th level. That will slow thier Move Object progression very much. The in game reason is since that feat represents a lot of "offense" the Jedi who is training them teaches them that last as they should be at a point where they are ready to take on more responsiblity with taking on something that gives them such power. Hence its the last force feat they learn.

    Plus, look at all the skills you can use untrained once you learn Alter: Force Grip, Force Lightning, etc. I would think the Jedi Council would think it's a poor idea to teach a 1st or 2nd-level character how to use the Force in a way that could so easily lead places they don't want Padawans to go.
  15. jasconsolojediknight Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 31, 2006
    star 1
    I don't think you should get a DSP bc you use move object in a person if its self defense. But yeah the Charcter need to be a good level like 7th. Any earlier and it does't seem right.
  16. dp4m Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2001
    star 9
    Ah, but there's a REASON as well:

    You need it first to learn to Heal Other. It's a fine line the Jedi Healers walk... able to affect others around them sooner rather than later. ;)
  17. Jedi_Winter_Knight Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 30, 2005
    True, but another point... learn to help yourself. Then we can show you how to help others...
  18. Jedi_Matt Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 11, 2002
    star 4
    i always thought it made sense that you'd have to be able to sense the Force before you could learn to control it within you, and then be able to alter stuff around you, making sense, control, alter the order of learning.

  19. dp4m Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2001
    star 9
    But, again conversely, why would Masters wish to train people to sense things around them and open themselves up to the influence of the Dark Side (which may tempt them) before learning to control the Force within one's self, since then you'd have an adequate defense against the temptation... ;)
  20. Jedi_Matt Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 11, 2002
    star 4
    pah! :p

    very true, but i thought surely to control your internal Force, you've gotta be able to sense it to know that you are controlling it?
  21. Nktalloth Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 5, 2005
    star 1
    Ah, but could it not be a test? They purposefully open up temptation to the padawan in order to see how the padawan can deal with it? If they fail, they are sent home, having learned nothing more than how to tell that the force is there. If they succeed, going on to learn the advanced techniques, with the masters at least somewhat confident that the padawan will not abuse their new abilities.
  22. Yuul_Shamar Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2004
    star 4
    Actually in the revised core book (WOTC) it says most consulars should pick sense to start with control for guardian and alter for the force adept
  23. dizfactor Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 2002
    star 5
    Actually in the revised core book (WOTC) it says most consulars should pick sense to start with control for guardian and alter for the force adept

    That's actually looser than the 1st edition rules. In 1st edition, you didn't get to choose which order you got them in.

    I think it makes sense that the Jedi would almost always be inclined to teach Control and Sense in either order, then Alter. However, I have a new game started and my Jedi character is 3rd level with Sense and Alter, so I may be a bit hypocritical there.
  24. dp4m Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2001
    star 9
    Yep, Jedi Healers (which only require Jedi Level 3rd, really) learn Control / Alter and NOT Sense (theoretically) as their training progresses...
  25. MasterKazur Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2004
    star 3
    In the new Jedi Counciling on www.wizards.com there are some new great rules for Move Object.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.