Forget it! CLONES b.o. assures EP 3 will be simplistic

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith (Non-Spoilers)' started by Bresson, Jun 24, 2002.

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  1. SWfan2002 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 28, 2002
    star 4
    One thing to consider is that SW will probably be the surest bet and most hyped movie of the year. The HP franchise will probably be in trouble, LOTR will be out of the picture, SM 2 is due in 2004. Unless another major franchise is established between now and then, EP3 will be the biggest movie event of the year by far. Indy 4 will probably be its major competitor as far as hype goes.

    IMHO, all Lucas needs to change for EP3 is his marketing strategy. AOTC's was terrible!
  2. Luke_Clone Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 15, 2002
    star 4
    "Will theaters allow Lucas to call his own shots? Lucas gets the sweetest deal of any filmmaker, gettting 70% of the first weekend dollar and not giving up 50% until the fourth weekend. Are theaters going to put up with that when so many unloaded the movie after their four week obligation? Can Lucas get the four week obligation again? If studios don't pony up for digital projectors, in three years, will theaters let Lucasfilm strong arm them into putting them into their screening rooms just to show EP 3? In other words, will CLONES quick fade effect theater's attitude towards Ep 3, or will they play hardball? "

    I think that, Bresson, is a more likely consequence of Clone's "poor" B.O. than say a change in the script of Episode 3.

    As far as "tie-ins" go Lucas cut way back this time around for AOTC as they did not go all out like Lucasfilm did with TPM. I'm sure they will cut back even more for Episode 3 but old regulars like Hasbro and Lego (and newbies like Master Replicas) will still be more than willing to make a ton of toys as, if this year's Hasbro release schedule is any indication, they seem to be quite confident that there is still a market out there... at least for basic action figures and those types of toys.

    Let's just say that from my perspective as a collector there is still a lot of stuff out there to be had despite the reduced number of companies producing Star Wars paraphenelia. ;)
  3. DeltaJedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 24, 2002
    star 1
    I think George Lucas has reiterated many times that he is telling the story he wants to tell.

    Why would he change to accomodate critics and the paying public only now, after doing 5 movies his way?

    That dosen't make much sense to me.
  4. TheVioletBurns Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 27, 2002
    star 4
  5. IronParrot Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 2, 1999
    star 5
    "IMHO, all Lucas needs to change for EP3 is his marketing strategy. AOTC's was terrible!"

    Strongly disagree. I think it was a step in the right direction. Star Wars is far too commercialized as it is, and this is creating a false image of the Prequels as commercial franchise products while the truth is that they are independent films by a rich independent filmmaker.

    I pray that Episode III has even less merchandise. Marketing a film without resorting to merchandise is the key. Effective posters, effective trailers... that's the beginning. Star Wars already has the name.
  6. Bresson Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2002
    star 3
    They definitely need to improve the trailers. There wasn't a single CLONES trailer that nearly reflected the vastness and excitement of the actual product.
  7. Luke_Clone Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 15, 2002
    star 4
    "I pray that Episode III has even less merchandise. Marketing a film without resorting to merchandise is the key. Effective posters, effective trailers... that's the beginning. Star Wars already has the name."

    Awww, but I like my Episode 2 toys! :p

    No I agree that there shouldn't be an all out blitz like there was with TPM but perhaps Lucas shouldn't say, "Oh yeah we'll have the DVD out in 5 months so don't see the movie more times than you need to." Also, he should emphasize the fact that this is the last Star Wars movie and he should really play up the fact that this is the Episode where Anakin turns. That is what the PT is all about, after all.
  8. Imperial_Guard Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 13, 2002
    star 4
    "...the truth is that they are independent films created by a rich independent filmmaker..." Technically true, but now Star Wars should be treated like a low-budget art film because GL is an "independent" and all commercial ties should be cut? Star Wars practically invented mass merchandising but now it should come to a halt and declare that Star Wars really has nothing to do with merchandise? I don't think the significance of Star Wars merchandising can be discounted that easily. Sorry, IronParrot, I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with your disagreement.
  9. shocktrooper Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2002
    star 3
    Lets face it Lucas made enough money from the merchandising in 78/79 to make as many dud films as he liked (not that he has,well maybe one or 2)

    The BO is such a small part of his money making potential that at this stage of his Career I don't think a low BO (which AOTC wasn't) would bother him, It might dishearten him as an Artist but thats about it.

    Had the Merchandising from 77/78 failed though, both his and the Saga would be a much different story.
  10. Sbuck143 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 1
    In an interview shortly after Episode II came out, Lucas gave the following domestic B.O. numbers and what it would mean to Episode III's fate.

    I'll see if I can find the link...I'm 99% sure it was linked from the TFN main page. Ahh here it is:
    http://www.boxofficemojo.com/articles/news/?id=020602bor.htm

    and here is the relevant snippet:

    "" Lucas told Reuters a few weeks ago that Clones had to hit $300 million domestically to be "home free" in regards to profitability. "I feel confident we can do it, (but) it's not a slam dunk," Lucas prophetically said. "If it does $285 (million), that's okay. If it does $205 (million), it's a disappointment and we have to rethink the things we are doing about the next one." Bottom line, the picture is a hit in the eyes of its creative force and its studio. ""


    SB
  11. professor_klump Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2002
    star 1
    Most of you guys are only looking at the short term profit that AOTC will make, but what about DVD release, video release, deluxe boxed set DVD and VHS releases, action figures, etc.
  12. dehrian Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 18, 1999
    star 6
    I don't see how anyone can complain about AOTC's gross. No other film franchise has had a fourth sequel approach the $300 million mark.
  13. Soothsayer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 1999
    star 4
    Being a Marketing major, i think Lucas should hire me to market Ep.III. I will be out of school by then and looking for a job.

    Ep.III has the MOST potential out of any Star Wars movie. This movie can easily be the best one. Hopefully Lucas will not care what people say and make this movie GREAT.
  14. DarthHomer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2000
    star 5
    Firstly, AOTC WILL make $300 million in America, and over double that worldwide. So it's well past Lucas's make or break figure for profitability.

    Second, Lucas has never changed his story, as far as I know, just to make his films more commercial. People said TPM was overcommercialised, but Lucas could have done even more to make it appeal to the mass audience. For example, a Celine Dion song over the end credits, or Leo DiCaprio as Anakin :)
    And he could have just repeated TPM's box office winning formula for AOTC, but he made it a dark, disturbing and complex film anyway. Episode III should be fine.
  15. Harlowe Thrombey Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 19, 1999
    star 2
    It is rediculous to think that AOTC's box office was majorly affected by the marketing campaign. First of all, there was probably more marketing for this one (in terms of t.v. commercials, etc.) I barely saw any of the Tone Poem commercials compared to AOTC's Profession commercials. Besides, do you think it really makes a difference if they had changed the campaign. If there was anyone who didn't know that there was a Star Wars movie coming out, they probably would never go to a SW movie anyway because they live under a rock. As some other people have mentioned, Spiderman and some of the other big releases have taken money away from AOTC. Also, TPM had the advantage of being the first SW movie in 16 years, not to mention more press coverage.

    George is going to tell the story he wants to tell the way he wants to tell it. Give the man some credit for having some artistic integrity and credibility. Could it be possible that he created Jar Jar with the intention of adding comedy to the prequels? Could it be possible that Jar Jar and Wicket were created with the story in mind first and they just happen to be marketable as well?

    When George says Ep. III will be dark "for a SW movie" he is probably just trying to say that its not going to be dark in the same way that Silence of the Lambs is dark.
  16. MasterJedi-Mackey Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2002
    star 1
    I agree with the sentiment that Lucas does not care about the Box Office end nearly as much as he does the reputation of the franchise as it closes. With the majority of movies struggling to make it to the $100 million mark, the Star Wars franchise can boast an estimated $2.7 bil (BO sales) Regardless to the numbers shown, that enterprise has generated more money than anyother series in cinematic history. Also, in the advent of DVD and home theater systems, consider that the money made represents box office sales of a movie that almost suredly will make nearly the same amount of money in DVD/Video/licensed merchandising sales. Also, as with just about every other Star Wars entry, Epi2 was more a political statement about the value of Digital Projections vs Standard Projections. Lucas has earned highly competitive numbers despite the "passive-aggressive" resistance of the theater industry as they resist upgrading their projectors to the digital format (Roger Ebert, Chgo Sun-Times May 24)

    I think that the climactic ending that we all expect and want will be well off and good. Lastly, according to the Star Wars Special on Dateline, Lucasfilm has established "record" (rumored to be $10mil per lead actor) bonding for the final battles, which also have already been choreographed and rehearsals begun.
  17. IronParrot Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 2, 1999
    star 5
    Slight tangent from the topic at hand to respond to this:

    "...now Star Wars should be treated like a low-budget art film because GL is an "independent" and all commercial ties should be cut? Star Wars practically invented mass merchandising but now it should come to a halt and declare that Star Wars really has nothing to do with merchandise? I don't think the significance of Star Wars merchandising can be discounted that easily."

    Really, the problem here is that the merchandising craze has already gone too far. In fact, it did so a long time ago (though not in a galaxy far, far away). I'm not saying Star Wars should be treated like a low-budget art film. I'm saying it should be treated like what it is: a big-budget art film.

    The mass merchandising surrounding Star Wars was a result of the success of the original film in becoming a defining part of our cultural consciousness. It is not in any way integral to the saga, certainly not in the development and presentation of the story itself. There are rampant - and unfounded - accusations that Lucas is making the Prequel Trilogy to sell toys, assumptions that are entirely false, but still (in the perpetrators' eyes) substantiated by overly excessive commercialization.

    We are beginning to forget - and many have forgotten - that in terms of film-making, George Lucas is and always was strictly non-Hollywood. He has a few billion dollars in his pocket, so why should be concerned about box office grosses now when he wasn't back in the 1970s, when he took on a personal dream project, the riskiest film of its time, as a quirky little side project before returning to things like American Graffiti? Why would he gamble on a new FX house, and openly defy the Director's Guild of America even when fined?

    Nowadays, the commercial success of a new Star Wars movie is guaranteed - not by the toys, but by the quality and appeal of the existing films. The success of the first one was not guaranteed. But even then, Lucas' first priority was never money. It was to tell his story. Is there any logic in saying that Lucas is more concerned about money now that he's one of the wealthiest men in the world?

    Star Wars would be unequivocally better off if marketed as what it is - a film saga - and no more. Certainly, nowadays it's impossible to dismantle the commercial enterprise surrounding it, since the fan base has already been polluted by a plethora of merchandise. But theoretically... man, if only it would all disappear.

    And lastly, just because TPM or Spider-Man made more than AOTC, that doesn't make AOTC a flop. It's a huge commercial success by any regular standards. So I don't even know what the issue is here.
  18. Luke_Clone Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 15, 2002
    star 4
    IronParrot,

    "Star Wars would be unequivocally better off if marketed as what it is - a film saga - and no more. Certainly, nowadays it's impossible to dismantle the commercial enterprise surrounding it, since the fan base has already been polluted by a plethora of merchandise. But theoretically... man, if only it would all disappear."

    I must respectfully disagree. Star Wars is more than just the movies to me. It is the toys, the games, the promotional/design artwork, the fan made stuff (fiction, costumes, custom figures, etc.), the Documentaries, the "Making of Books," and even the EU books to some extent.

    Some people may think that I am merely a slave to Lucas' empire and I'm pumping money straight into Lucas bank account but if not that then certainly I would be doing it with something(s) else. What if I bought a ton of Arizona Diamondbacks (Baseball team for our foreign friends ;) ) would I be a slave to Jerry Colangelo? Would that be better than giving it to Lucas, I mean if I have to spend my money (or my parent's yes I know I'm bad and I'm a moocher ;) ) I might as well spend it on something I like. Besides, the amount of merchandise out there for AOTC is nothing compared to what it was like for TPM or even ROTJ in terms of the insane amounts and varieties of stuff to purchase. AOTC DID cut way back on SW merchandise in comparison to TPM and although I think it is a step in the right direction I don't want to see all Star Wars tie-ins killed off. To me that is just as much a part of Star Wars as Luke is Leia's brother.

    Sorry for the rant but I'm a collector and darnit if I want to "waste" my money on all of the Star Wars toys out there I have the right to do so. It's not like I buy stuff that I don't like, I'm extremely picky, and I don't buy it to help out "Uncle George" as I buy it for just one person: me. ;)
  19. tabbafett Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 16, 2001
    star 2
    I'm with Iron Parrot. Also Drunken Jedi Master nailed it with his post.

    To worry about box offices, merchandising, or critics is essentially "falling to the dark side" of film making, and art in general. And the people who do worry so much about how much this movie or that movie is making said that the phantom menace was a flop, and now attack of the clones has followed. How on earth can you say that these were failures when the facts that are the basis for your conclusion to whether or not it did good, exceed all or nearly all past movies that have come out in the past 2938470123984 years. Honestly.

    It's sad when you have to keep a bottle of Aleve by the computer just to read some of these threads. [face_plain]
  20. DarthHomer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2000
    star 5
    I don't think the marketing for AOTC was bad. The four trailers managed to show all the different aspects of the film without giving too much away (which I like). I doubt there was anyone who didn't know there was a new Star Wars film coming out.
    The problem was later on, when the bad buzz started to come out. Spider-Man was making box office history, and AOTC looked like an also-ran before it even came out. I was horrified when I read article after article saying that the critics had attacked Clones and decided it was another disappointing Star Wars film. The reality is that most reviews were positive, especially from fans. Lucasfilm must have known that the general public was being turned off before they even saw the film, and they did nothing.
    Oh well, them's the breaks :)
  21. Binary_Sunset Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2000
    star 5
    I agree with IronParrot regarding all the merchandise. If I had a bulldozer and a tank of gas...
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